Periodic hot weather issues

[lolibater]

Lol. If that's what it comes to then I'll make sure to let you know so we can film it.

I might check the valves again, but I fell like I'm doing that every day it seems.

[choneofakind]

Humor me. Try unplugging the headlight here too. It's a little science experiment now.

[lolibater]

As it sits right now, it has been off for 2 hours. I have not attempted to start it, but would guess that if I do, it will start correctly.

Should I still unplug the light and start it? It's probably not hot enough out for the starting issue to occur.

[choneofakind]

nah, only when it's hot or you have idle oscillations.

[lolibater]

moot point. Can't get the headlight unplugged.

[choneofakind]

You can't? It's the 3-prong plug right behind the gauges.

[lolibater]

Yeah the little tooth that holds the plastic clip on appears to be too big to back out of the connector. I mean i know it's not supposed to be that way.

The weird idle is now back, and the bike has been warmed up.

Idk if this matters, but I was closely watching the brightness of the headlight on the back of the car in front of me while I was at the red light with the weird idle. It wasn't getting any dimmer or brighter.

[lolibater]

Hey @choneofakind

since i can't seem to get that clip off, can i just remove the fuse instead to test?

the one shown here?

[choneofakind]

Yeah that should work fine!! Pull it.

[lolibater]

Will do. Of course now it's not hot and starts perfectly fine lol. I should be safe just to run the bike around my neighborhood with no light I hope.

[lolibater]

Latest update:

So i just ran the bike around the freeway a bit to get it nice and hot. The weird idle barely happened, but when I pulled the headlight fuse, nothing changed.

I parked in my garage and immediately tried to start it again, which it did. I am going to give it 30 min until I try it again just to try to get it to not start, if that makes any sense.

If it starts after that, I want to say it's fixed, but this problem only occurs when it's warm out, and it's not that warm today. I don't get how ambient temps can affect the operation this much.

[rabies]

would be cool to cap it and go aircooled. but they arent designed to go that way.
i like the older aircooled bikes, you aint gotta mess with all that nonsense.
your positive the water pump isnt stuck?'
you sure its coolant related?
i know when the outside temp changes my bike idles and runs way different

[lolibater]

I'm not sure it's coolant related; I don't think it is. I'm 100% sure it's bled correctly now, and was actually just able to reproduce the main issue, even with the mild ambient temp out.

i tried pulling the headlight fuse before hand but nothing changed.

The oil and coolant levels seem to be appropriate as well. The bike won't even bump start once it decides to wants to wait 2 hours.

These seem to be the recurring steps to get the issue to arise:

1. cold start bike
2. ride bike for 15+ min
3. turn bike off
4. the bike will start if i try to start it again, but idles lower and lower until it dies
5. after this, the bike won't start for about 2 hours

[lolibater]

@choneofakind

Do you know of any setting in the EFI that would affect startup?

I recently put that s19, A2L, and CAL on via FlashGUI and ProCAL, and didn't mess with any of the settings after the files were provided to me by Matt. Is there any way something could have changed in the ECU?

[choneofakind]

During start-up, your bike runs on open loop for a little bit until it deems the bike "up to temp". This means it doesn't use the O2 sensors, and only relies on the table of values for starting and "warm up". (Start Up and After-Start) If your engine and O2 sensors are already hot, this warm up phase might only run for a minute, but it's still going to happen a little. The .cal file on your ecu should have start-up and after-start values that work.

When your engine is "too hot" is the engine temp sensor reading somewhere around 103 degrees? When mine was having idle oscillations, it was always worst when the engine got to 103. Then it would be a complete bitch to start. After I got my electrical stuff under control and my air screws balanced, it has not given me any odd oscillations or hard hot starts.

The next thing you can try when you have free time: reach under the fairings, unplug each O2 sensor and just tape them to the fairing so they aren't dangling. Flip the switch to rich mode. Get it good and hot and see if your idling/starting is still a problem. Your ecu has had plenty of time to learn, so it should have a good idea of the mixtures for you.

I still think the biggest issue with pre-gen installs is the power thing

[lolibater]

If it was power wouldn't have unplugging the headlight have changed something?

I'll definitely have to hook up procal to read the temp next time i encounter this. It's one of the default measurements / gauges right?

I haven't tried running it in Rich mode since way back when I first joined the forum, but with the way it's running right now, idk if I should switch it.

[choneofakind]

It's not the gauges on ProCal. It's on the one of the tables that pops up. I wouldn't mess with those values a ton though, because small changes to those numbers make huge differences.

Only reason I suggested it is because that's what I changed on mine and it worked. I also raised my idle to 1600 by turning out the air screws and adding a little more air at idle.

[lolibater]

As far as balancing the air screws.... what is that?

I have a feeling i've never done it. i thought those were only on carbs.

[choneofakind]

The screws on the bottom of each throttle body. Don't touch them until you have some data from the bike and know which one needs to go which direction. You want to look at data from the fuel controller output for both cylinders, and the data from each oxygen sensor, and compare them. You adjust the air screws accordingly until the readings from those sensor match on the number 1 and number 2 side.

[lolibater]

I can obtain that data by recording data in ProCAL correct? Nothing extra I need to enable or monitor?

[lolibater]

The engine covers are almost cool to the touch and the bike won't even start for me to record in procal. Is there anything that I can log in procal without having to start the bike that might help point us in the right direction?

[lolibater]

How important is this:

"Correct levels of different fuel supply components should be: the fuel
pump and the fuel filter must be lower than the lowest point of the fuel tank.
The order of height is (from the highest to the lowest): tank, filter, pump,
and injectors. The fuel injectors can be higher than the pump if limited by
the space."

I just noticed that my fuel filter is higher than it should be, and the fuel pump was loose in it's bracket.

[choneofakind]

what temp is the engine temp sensor reading right now?

[lolibater]

I didn't see where on ProCAL it listed the temperature of the engine. Where do I find it?

Te bike is completely disassembled right now while I confirm the proper hight of the EFI components.

[choneofakind]

That should be one of the big green gauges that comes up. it will start showing you the temp as soon as you turn the key on and push connect on the computer screen.

note: All my instructions on ProCal are from memory, since I don't have my ProCal disk, or bike with me at school...

[lolibater]

I'll see if I can pull it up again.

I can't seem to find the physical temperature sensor anywhere on the bike too.

[choneofakind]

It looks like a cord with a little doo-dad on the end. The little doo-dad gets bolted onto something on the engine. The water pipe right under the intake ports is where I bolted mine on.

I'm searching for some pictures in the install thread to show you what I mean...

EDIT: I found a picture, courtesy of Terminal from his install thread:

This is the engine temp sensor, right below the intake ports, on the water thing.

[lolibater]

I have a picture from Matt, but I still can't seem to find where it is. I know I've seen it on the bike before. I'll have to trace it back from the ECU I guess.

[lolibater]

this it?

[choneofakind]

Might be. It's definitely an older version if it is.

Try putting it in the same place that Terminal and I put ours. You need accurate temp data for the ecu to perform right.

[lolibater]

Never mind, I found another one that looks more like the one Matt sent me mounted on top of the thermostat:

[choneofakind]

On top of the thermostat? I've never read of it being installed there.

[lolibater]

both the ECT and IAT are reading at 30* C right now.

[lolibater]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

On top of the thermostat? I've never read of it being installed there.

yeah me neither, based on the EcoTrons instructions. That DOES look like the correct sensor, right?

[choneofakind]

That looks like an odd place to mount that sensor. But yes, the second one is definitely it. The first one must be the frame ground or something.

If I were you, I would move that engine temp sensor quick. No need to measure the temp of the thermostat; the ecu already gets info from the oem coolant temp sensor.

if they're all reading 30, that's because they're both reading the air temp.

[lolibater]

The bike is stone cold right now, so idk if that contributes to them both reading 30* or not.

Where can i relocate the sensor?

[choneofakind]

Check out Terminal's picture that I posted in post 67.

That's where I have mine as well. That gets right up to temp with the engine, and it stays at the same temp as the engine as the engine cools.

[lolibater]

Will removing that bolt from whatever hose that is make coolant leak and/or spray everywhere, or will i be safe with the other bolt holding the other side in?

[choneofakind]

You're good.

[lolibater]

Ok got the sensor mounted right where you have it. Found i was missing a nut for one of my coils, so I gotta go out to Home Depot and then I'll put this baby back together and see if it will fire up. I'll connect it to procal and record the temps too.