NickJPass - Can't Get a Bike

[etiainen]

Ramen does not work as food...waaaay too salty.

Living on your own isn't that glamourous when you're on a college student budget.

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

ugh. Ramen is seriously the worst invention ever. It's so terrible for you. Salty, bland, nutrientless, but it always sounds so goshdarn appetizing before you eat it!! garrr

Lol I still love it!

Originally Posted by CynicalC

Bye!

I'm not leaving lol!

Originally Posted by Jay72

^^^

Dude I usually like what you post but really? Read his comments and you think he is best off starting somewhere as in on a bike? If he thinks that he knows what it is like from being in the passenger seat then I am sorry but that is just plain wrong and is just setting him up for an accident. Nick is a very very eager young man and he has A LOT to learn and needs to mature LOTS before he has then proper mentallity to ride on the road. That goes for 99% of 16 year olds, I was 16 once too and I also thought I knew everything about everything, but boy was I wrong.
Either way let just hope that he keeps saving and gets a dirtbike, racks up some experience and then goes from there. But in the meantime he needs to get driving his parents car, in busy places not just around the country roads, and then if his permit allows him get him out on the highway, when it's busy and let him see what it is REALLY like.

I realized what you guys were saying posts ago, and I understand. No point in posting about it anymore

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by etiainen

Ramen does not work as food...waaaay too salty.

Living on your own isn't that glamourous when you're on a college student budget.

I never said it was!

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Jay72

Read his comments and you think he is best off starting somewhere as in on a bike? If he thinks that he knows what it is like from being in the passenger seat then I am sorry but that is just plain wrong and is just setting him up for an accident. Nick is a very very eager young man and he has A LOT to learn and needs to mature LOTS before he has then proper mentallity to ride on the road. That goes for 99% of 16 year olds, I was 16 once too and I also thought I knew everything about everything, but boy was I wrong.

I've read everything he's posted in this thread. He sounds like a typical 16-year-old guy from a maturity level, and yes he has a lot to realize about traffic before I would allow him to buy a bike if he were my son. Also, some of Nick's comments about seeing the road from the passenger seat made me laugh a little because that's how I thought as well when I was in his position, and now I know how laughably wrong those thoughts really were. He's obviously gaining road experience as we speak because he has his temps and also obviously still has a long way to go. But he has to learn that on his own.

As we age, we tend to forget what it's like to be 16 and be having freedoms and possibilities open up to us. Experience and responsibility have a way of clouding our memory of what it's like to be 16. I'm of the age where I can relate exactly to how Nick is feeling, but I also see exactly where all the more matured members are coming from. So when some members are getting to the point of calling him a baby, or questioning whether he should even get a dirt bike, I get a little aggravated. The only way to grow and mature is to make mistakes and learn from them. That's the same theory with becoming a better driver. Why do you think it costs so much to insure a guy under the age of 25? Because we make mistakes. It's part of life. But if you've been 16 recently, you'll remember that you didn't want to be told how things were. You wanted to make a mistake, and learn it for yourself. That's just how teenagers are wired.

I also never said he was BEST to start off on a bike, just that if he's going to start off on a bike, he might as well do it in the situation he currently is in, because he will be living at home with his parents for guidance for at least 2 more years. That's 2 years of semi-supervised riding with parents to offer good advice along the way. To me, that sounds like a better option than starting in his mid-20's and being completely alone. Sometimes it's nice to have someone to keep tabs on you and worry about you when you don't come home. He's only going to have that for a few more years. Time make use of it and take to his own advantage.

Originally Posted by Jay72

Either way let just hope that he keeps saving and gets a dirtbike, racks up some experience and then goes from there. But in the meantime he needs to get driving his parents car, in busy places not just around the country roads, and then if his permit allows him get him out on the highway, when it's busy and let him see what it is REALLY like.

That I'm not arguing. That I agree with.

[etiainen]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Why do you think it costs so much to insure a guy under the age of 25? Because we make mistakes. It's part of life. But if you've been 16 recently, you'll remember that you didn't want to be told how things were. You wanted to make a mistake, and learn it for yourself. That's just how teenagers are wired.

I blame that on 'rosterone.

[choneofakind]

[Zombiphone]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Good god, Chode. That discussion we had earlier about children suddenly makes so much sense now that I actually see it happening. And I definitely still maintain my stance

Now shut up and get back to playing ball with ADD 5 year olds

[choneofakind]

Ugh Tiffani I'm not even ADHD...

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

...
The only way to grow and mature is to make mistakes and learn from them. That's the same theory with becoming a better driver. Why do you think it costs so much to insure a guy under the age of 25? Because we make mistakes. It's part of life. But if you've been 16 recently, you'll remember that you didn't want to be told how things were. You wanted to make a mistake, and learn it for yourself. That's just how teenagers are wired.
...

Uhh... wouldn't it be far safer/better to make the same new driver mistakes you could make in a car, in a car, Chris? That way they will not complicate the motorcycle-specific mistakes anyone could make as a new rider which add additional risk to the same mistakes.

Anyway, your own feelings from when you were 16 don't apply perfectly to everyone. When I was 16, I was homeschooled and I didn't even want to drive. I just kept renewing my learner's permit until I was 18yo. I never had that "drive" to do something anyway because I "don't like being told what to do." Well, I guess I didn't like being forced to learn to drive my mom's crap-mobile when she was the last person in the world I would want teaching anyone how to drive.

Also, in STARK contrast, our mother actually wanted my twin brother and I to get a street-legal motorcycle when we were 12 like our older brother but the law was changed to increase the minimum age to the same as a car. Also, we didn't have the money. I would've been happy with a Go-Kart.

[Jay72]

@choneofakind I am so sorry but I think you are wayyyyyy off base on your last reply. First off I am not as old as you seem to think I am, secondly I remember perfectly what it was like to be 16 (even though Alzheimer is already setting in at my age And I remember I also used to get my heart set on things that I already knew I was not getting, as per how I have a feeling things have gone for Nick. So tell me what is your age, I am pretty sure I have read somewhere that you are still in college correct? So that right there tells me that you yourself really don't have a whole lot of experience in life yet, as in wife, mortgage, kids a career and so on. what I am getting at is that I think you were offended for some reason to what some of us have said to Nick, and not just me by any means, and you felt the need to get a little long winded on an answer that really doesn't make a whole lot of logical sense. Point in case, needing to make mistakes, that part is true, the crappy part is if he were to make the same new driver mistakes on a bike, he would no longer be posting here because he would be dead.
Anyways I am tired and probably not making much sense at this point, basically I am trying to say that there was no real need for you to try and prove the advise I gave hime was bad, or wrong for that matter, I have not read one single comment on here that was nasty in any way toward nick and I really don't think any of us hurt his feelings or warranted a massive defense to Nick comment. I as well as many other forum members have said as nice a possible that Nick will one day appreciate what Mom and dad have done.

[naughtylion]

IMHO you need to be an experienced airhead cager before you hop on a bike so you know how to avoid them. I remember the night I jumped on my first bike at 23, and was subconciously staying out of cars' blind spots without even realising it. The times I've got into hairy situations was when I already knew what the car was going to do. You can't have that at 16.

That being said, I also remember being 16, and remember I couldn't be told either...

Patience man... might save ur life. You don't need experience to ride up and down the road, you need it to get you out of trouble when it would otherwise already be too late.

[rusninja]

Originally Posted by naughtylion

IMHO you need to be an experienced airhead cager before you hop on a bike so you know how to avoid them. I remember the night I jumped on my first bike at 23, and was subconciously staying out of cars' blind spots without even realising it. The times I've got into hairy situations was when I already knew what the car was going to do. You can't have that at 16.

That being said, I also remember being 16, and remember I couldn't be told either...

Patience man... might save ur life. You don't need experience to ride up and down the road, you need it to get you out of trouble when it would otherwise already be too late.

You need the reaction to panic Also, In the end if you dont know how to handle a situation in panic you will probably cause a avoidable accident.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by naughtylion

IMHO you need to be an experienced airhead cager before you hop on a bike so you know how to avoid them. I remember the night I jumped on my first bike at 23, and was subconciously staying out of cars' blind spots without even realising it. The times I've got into hairy situations was when I already knew what the car was going to do. You can't have that at 16.

That being said, I also remember being 16, and remember I couldn't be told either...

Patience man... might save ur life. You don't need experience to ride up and down the road, you need it to get you out of trouble when it would otherwise already be too late.

Agreed. All those extra things that I pay attention to in traffic, like blind spots, who *might* go where, etc would be too much of a distraction if I were still learning the basics.

For example, there is a tangle of one-way roads intersecting at one place in town where you need to know which turn lane to be in before hand or else you are forced immediately into another turn that sends you down another sequence of one-way streets that you must fully circumnavigate to get back where you were. Cars forcing their way in after selecting the wrong lane earlier are an inevitability in that situation due to people refusing to just take their lumps and return the long way to, but the main problem is that the markings fade as fast as they can be painted and, over the years, spend more time being invisible than visible. This means that only the locals/regulars know which lane to be in and the others will blindly force their way in completely unaware that you had the right of way. I realized that I can identify this with near 100% certainty by looking at the county that each plate is registered to. Anything not from within the same county or a neighboring county in the wrong lane for staying on the main highway was almost certainly going to veer into my lane, so I always line up with their rear bumper and watch it happen safely from behind. This is harder to do now that GA has optional messages that go there like "In God We Trust," but it's still something I keep an eye on. If I were still figuring out how to shift and go from a stop and I didn't even know what it's like to have a blind spot while changing lanes in a car, I might get run right over by a car doing just that.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by rusninja

You need the reaction to panic Also, In the end if you dont know how to handle a situation in panic you will probably cause a avoidable accident.

Inexperienced panic reactions in a car might prevent an accident. The same inexperienced panic reactions on a motorcycle are more likely to cause an accident and, even if the risk of the accident happening were the same, the danger it poses is also needlessly greater.

[MikeBudd]

I know this issue has been TOTALLY exhausted :O but I thought I should chime in as my little bro started riding at 17 with well under a year of experience of driving. He was totally fine, he was very good at driving, and has not yet been injured with a year of riding under his belt. I'm not saying it's OK to allow people with a smaller amount of experience on the road, but in no way will it immediately cause fatalities or even injury for that matter.

Now Nick, I feel terrible for you. Yet at the same time like most people say, you should definitely take it as a positive. At the very least you get to ride and learn about bikes until your parents will let you have one. You will get more experience on the road, and more experience on bikes. Then you will definitely be better off when you get on the road in the future Maybe the parents will come around once you get on your dirt bike and they see that you are very comfortable on that as well as in the car.

@Jay72: Not to sound like a dick (and no, I am not offended ;P), but your assumption that age = life experience is completely incorrect. Many people have experienced much more than you and I ever will by the time they are 20.

ANYWAYS,

I completely agree that it is definitely better to make new driver mistakes in a car than on a bike, but I have to disagree when you say chris (@choneofakind) was completely wrong in his post

I pose this question:

Let us assume nick gets his bike exactly 1 year after he got his drivers license and has been driving for 1 year. Now, he gets his bike takes MSF and learns how to ride in a supervised environment with some added rules that eventually get taken away as his experience increases. He has a decent amount of cage experience (1 year) under his belt and a good learning environment to learn how to ride safely.

Now, would it be better to have him in that environment or add 1-2 more years of cage experience and have him start off riding completely by himself (no parent help or worry), where no rules would apply, where he might not even take msf, and being a junior in college might even be attempting to impress everyone with the excessive speed of his 250 and his awesome wheelies? IE: more cage experience but a terrible learning environment.

Obviously this is not exactly the case for nick (who may be getting a dirt bike completely changing everything), but if we reference this situation, I would say it would be better to forgo the 1 or 2 years extra of experience for the better learning environment.

My point being is that having more experience on the road is not necessarily a pre-req for learning how to ride. I know 30 year olds who have 14+ years of experience on the road and got their bikes and got in major accidents either because they are stupid, or made "NEW DRIVER MISTAKES" because they were riding a bike. They had the wrong learning environment and the wrong people teaching them and keeping tabs on them.

What chris was trying to convey to you was that he believes (and is the case a lot of the time), that the learning environment is much more important than the actual experience of being on the road. If you have a decent base (i'm using 6 months to 1 year everywhere in this post), then starting to ride is not a problem if you have a good learning environment. Having the parents around and everything and learning how to ride with less road experience is definitely better than learning to ride with a little more experience (2-3 years), and being in college with all of your buddies.

I am sure nick will eventually understand their viewpoint (if he doesn't already), and probably will thank them for it, even if he doesn't agree with it.

Goodluck with the dirt bike nick!

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Jay72

choneofakind[/MENTIO

Yes I'm in college. No I'm not off base.

Originally Posted by MikeBudd

What chris was trying to convey to you was that he believes (and is the case a lot of the time), that the learning environment is much more important than the actual experience of being on the road. If you have a decent base (i'm using 6 months to 1 year everywhere in this post), then starting to ride is not a problem if you have a good learning environment. Having the parents around and everything and learning how to ride with less road experience is definitely better than learning to ride with a little more experience (2-3 years), and being in college with all of your buddies.

^^ This is exactly what I was trying to put into words. That's how I started, and it was probably the best way I could have done it. It was my parents and my dad's coworkers who got me on a 250 instead of a 600, and it was those same people who help me think through things when I have questions. I had a chance to get my new driver mistakes out of my system in a car, then a bike, but all while at home under the supervision of my parents.

If I had done as many are suggesting and waited till I was out on my own, without any parental supervision/guidance, I would be just another one of those mid-20's squids on a gixxer who didn't take the MSF, or wear any gear because in Ohio I don't even need a helmet. This way was much better. Start with supervision in a semi-controlled environment.

[Nemesis]

WTF?

[Jay72]

@MikeBudd, I know what you are saying...I think it is now time we put this thread to rest, for Nick's sake. But thank you for your input, I wish I was better at writing so what I was saying didn't make me sound like such a dick. Oh well we are all adults (or almost) I am sure it will all be fine and he will keep saving, for a dirtbike, learn how to ride, and move on from there.

[Mocha Man]

As much as I hate to do it and I feel that this thread should probably just fade away into nothingness, I guess I'll give my on the topic since I'm so bored. Nick, I don't know exactly how you feel since my mom and dad are both encouraging me to get a Ninja (not that I need encouragement, I might add ). I've been riding dirt bikes since I was 5 and know all the basic techniques needed to ride. My family also purchased a 49cc scooter last year, which has helped me develop even more riding skills required for when I get my Ninja. I might not be ready to get one...I might crash if I do get one...my parents both care for me and want me to be safe but at the same time my dad grew up racing dirt bikes and it was his dream to go pro (and he was almost there) before a few things took place in his life that prevented him from doing so, so he understands what it's like to want to ride on two wheels so badly. I know you said your dad also rode motorcycles when he was younger so I'm not sure why he's not backing you up in getting a street bike, but dirt bikes are definitely the best way to start off riding as they help you get the skills needed to ride on the road. My dad has ridden street bikes too and both my parents want me to take the MSF course before I'm 18 and while I'm still in college because there's a $75 discount (new pair of gloves, right there ). My college also has dedicated motorcycle/scooter parking spots since it's ridiculously hard to find a spot in a cage. Like I said, I might just not be ready to get one but after riding around on my scooter everywhere for a year I've come to know a lot (I'm fully convinced that I will never know to the full extent how many there really are) of the dumb maneuvers people can pull in cages and know how to react to a lot of those maneuvers. I know it's different on a Ninjette but I'm talking about the basic avoidance maneuvers, minus the downshifting/braking, of course. You could mention getting a 49cc scooter to your parents since you don't need a motorcycle permit to ride them or have to take the MSF course, only a driver's license...that's how it is where I live, at least...not sure about New York. Scooters feel a lot like a street bike, just minus the shifting and plus the weird looks some people give you when they see you on one . Regardless of what anyone says, I hope you have a good time on your first set of some motorized 2 wheels since the enjoyment you can get on the road is dependent on your initial experience with motorcycles, as I have found out from my years of dirt bike racing experience.

Oh, and FWIW, I'm paying for all my equipment and bike with my job. I don't think that is very helpful to you since if I recall correctly that's what you're doing anyways but just figured I'd mention it nonetheless

[choneofakind]

In the mean time, @nickjpass, stay away from those darn packages of Ramen noodles!!!!

[nickjpass]

Guys I appreciate everything your saying, understand, and agree with mostly everything. I'm stuck between the TT-R125, YZ125, CRF230F, and the KLX140L.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

Guys I appreciate everything your saying, understand, and agree with mostly everything. I'm stuck between the TT-R125, YZ125, CRF230F, and the KLX140L.

Buy some Ninja 250r fairings and sport them on said bike.




I'm messing Nick......sorta.

[outasight20]

Nick, I got my 250 at 19, with three years of driving experience under my belt. Of course when I was your age it was my dream to own a motorcycle, but looking back it would have been the dumbest decision ever and I probably would've killed myself.

You may think you know how to drive just by being a passenger for 16 years, but you don't know squat. It takes thousands and thousands of miles behind the wheel to develop the subconcious skills and reactions to drive safely. I feel like a better driver every day, because I'm learning more every day.

Get a 125 dirtbike and ride it, crash it, fix it, etc. But realize that you are not a good driver just because you think you are. We all thought the same thing when we were young.

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Buy some Ninja 250r fairings and sport them on said bike.




I'm messing Nick......sorta.

New project?



I never said I was a good driver. I said that I knew people were dumb.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

You don't even have to drive a car to realize how stupid people are.

But you DO have to drive a car to get valuable road experience. NOTHING is a better teacher than time and experience. Driving less than a year with a permit has given you very few opportunities to experience the myriad of precarious situations that you can encounter while on the road.
Get some wisdom and experience under your belt. Start on dirt without all of the hazards on the road. Drive your car on the road for a few years. Consider a streetbike when you're 20.

[nickjpass]

I was considering the a bigger dirt bike