April 12th, 2011, 03:34 AM | #81 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Sam
Location: Northern Virginia
Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R 2009 and ZX-12R 2000 Posts: A lot.
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Just a brief side note. Those of you who use Sta-Bil might want to switch to Marine Sta-Bil! Much better product at fighting the alcohol in the gas.
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April 12th, 2011, 04:29 AM | #82 |
SLIME-R
Name: AMMOCAN
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): *SOLD* '10 Kawasaki 250R SE A.K.A. SLIME-R *SOLD* Posts: 596
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Not only are fuel injectors prone to clog, but you may find yourself on the receiving end of one of these codes, which is directly from the 2008 EX250K8F manual.
The Service Codes that you may receive are: 11-main throttle sensor malfunction; 12-inlet air pressure sensor malfunction; 13-inlet air temp sensor malfunction; 14-water temp sensor malfunction; 21-crankshaft sensor malfunction; 24&25-speed sensor malfunction; 31-vehicle down sensor malfunction; 32-sub-throttle sensor malfunction; 33-oxygen sensor inactivation; 51-ignition coil #1 primary winding malfunction; 52-ignition coil #2 primary winding malfunction; 56-radiator fan relay malfunction; 62-sub-throttle valve actuator malfunction; 64-air switching valve malfunction; 67-oxygen sensor heater malfunction; 94-oxygen sensor malfunction However, no service codes will be reported for these issues: 1. FI Indicator Light 2. Fuel Pump 3. Fuel Pump Relay 4. ECU Main Relay 5. ECU Power Source Wiring and Ground Wiring 6. Fuel Injectors Have fun and be sure to read the manual, as it is a good source to see what you might have to look forward to, as far as doing your own maintenance. |
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April 12th, 2011, 04:41 AM | #83 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Eric
Location: Iowa City
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As an auto tech for 30 years. I have worked through many changes in the auto industry. When people get a load of fuel injection problems they will want to convert back to carbs. The stock CV carbs work very well under a very wide veriety of conditions. I got 33 hp with them and rode in freezing temps. There are no wires or mystery boxes or anything else to go up. Just simple parts with holes that clog.
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April 12th, 2011, 07:24 AM | #84 | |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
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April 12th, 2011, 07:38 AM | #85 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Ross
Location: St. Louis
Join Date: Aug 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2007 ninja ex500, 2010 Ninja 250r, 2004 zzr600, 2003 CBR600rr, 2013 Ninja 300...in that order :D Posts: 266
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you guys are really starting to make me like carbs more and more.
honestly, i've been leaning towards fuel injected bikes JUST to get away from carbs. I hate using the choke. I'm just afraid of digging into the carbs, even with the DIYs here. I hope to one day get more familiar with my 250r. |
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April 12th, 2011, 09:34 AM | #86 |
self wrencher
Name: john
Location: houston
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 250r and 07 600r Posts: A lot.
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blahhh..just stay with carb...why spend more money
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April 12th, 2011, 11:57 AM | #87 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Cuong
Location: San Diego
Join Date: Jul 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250r, 2007 Daytona 675 Posts: A lot.
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April 12th, 2011, 12:07 PM | #88 |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
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Thanks for the entertainment guys. LOL!
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April 12th, 2011, 01:12 PM | #90 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Brad
Location: Indiana
Join Date: Aug 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2011 KTM 990 ADV Posts: 234
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April 14th, 2011, 12:00 PM | #91 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Al
Location: Bay Area
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): C-250R-ST Posts: 287
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Quote:
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April 14th, 2011, 03:07 PM | #92 |
ninjette.org member
Name: DJ
Location: DFW, TX
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): TR7, Trident, SuperIII, BMW, HD, Duc, Vespa, MP3 Posts: 83
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I know its possible, but I have never personally seen one that did. This is just my experience.
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2010 Ninja 250R SE - I got this bike for my wife. It was a good trade. |
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April 14th, 2011, 03:12 PM | #93 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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I've had multiple injectors get clogged in my Civics that I've owned.
Google it and you'll find most bikes w/ FI have to deal with this problem as well. Maybe not to the extent as a carbed bike, but don't think this will never be a problem just because you have EFI, is all I'm saying. |
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April 14th, 2011, 05:33 PM | #94 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Eric
Location: Iowa City
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I can't figure out the plumbing of that system . The turbo cold side is pointing down and the innercooler is just sitting there .and the big piece of muffler pipe with the air filter serves no purpose .I will be doing things different. First I am building a land speed racing bike not a street bike. I want the turbo as close to the engine as possible. That gives a hi speed hot exhaust pulse to the turbo. Also makes oiling better because it is well above the oil levelof the engine.I will mount the intercooler lower to act as a fairing behind the front wheel. My exhaust will only be 100 mm long and I intend to use a single throttle body on the inlet side of the turbo .I need a programable fuel injection system and ignition system and data logging with rpm air fuel ratio front and rear wheel speed and exhaust temp.the data and ignition system I have allready .This fuel system looks promising. But I need to talk to the people that make it.
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April 16th, 2011, 11:11 PM | #95 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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I found this post rather informative as to what it's like to live with an EFI version of the 250R....
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...0&postcount=42 |
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April 16th, 2011, 11:38 PM | #96 |
SLIME-R
Name: AMMOCAN
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): *SOLD* '10 Kawasaki 250R SE A.K.A. SLIME-R *SOLD* Posts: 596
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April 17th, 2011, 02:31 PM | #97 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Mikel
Location: Valley of the Sun
Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): '09 Blue Kawasaki KLE650 Versys, '95 Ducati 900SS/CR (undergoing track conversion) Posts: 287
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Something to keep in mind...
This is NOT an OEM system, so it is not constrained with EPA requirements, some of which limit how much adaptation the system is allowed to adjust to changes. ANY exhaust and intake that carries a CARB EO# will NOT need to have the ECM reflashed UNLESS the manufacturer specifically provides the flash. It is the EPA that causes an OEM system to be limited. This system however, is NOT an OEM system. Comparing it to one is like comparing apples and pineapples...they both say "apple" in their name, but that is the extent of their similarities. Is this conversion for everyone? Hell no. If your bike isn't broke, you live where you don't need to adjust things every few months because of weather, or you don't ride from Sea Level to 10K feet alot, then no, this mod is only something to do as a toy. For someone who has to adjust the jetting for Summer and Winter, who hates the way the motor bogs when he goes to hit the run twisties because the jetting gets too rich. This is something to look at. Being able to plug a laptop in and switch to a map that is better suited for the Monday to Friday commute, then plug it back in and switch it to a Race Map that can be set to run Race Fuel is very pleasing. If money wasn't so tight right now, I would be dropping $500 in a heart beat. Another $200 for Dyno tuning and I would be set. A Microsquirt system is very easy to diagnose. Injectors themselves are easy to diagnose, but more importantly have very few issues. If I have the know how to install the system and tune it on the computer, diagnosing a problem will be simple.
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2009 KLE650 LSL bars, Full Muzzy PC-V 1995 900SS/CR mildly modified |
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April 17th, 2011, 11:09 PM | #98 |
SLIME-R
Name: AMMOCAN
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): *SOLD* '10 Kawasaki 250R SE A.K.A. SLIME-R *SOLD* Posts: 596
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To add to what wyckedflesh said, I would like to add some things that those of you who reside in California or any other C.A.R.B. State may want to think about.
1. Even though there isn't any required law to have motorcycles smog tested and inspected right now, they have been working on making this mandatory starting no later than 2012 for at least all model years 2000+. 2. Even if you don't have to get it inspected and smog tested until then it is still illegal to make any modification to your motorcycle, which directly effects the OEM emissions configuration and that does not have a CARB EO#. What this means is that at any time you are involved in an accident, pulled over by law enforcement, or have a complaint filed against you, you will be at risk of receiving a fine for having an illegal modification. I know some of you absolutely don't care and will probably do it anyways considering you already made illegal modifications. However, if any other CARB State enforces the laws like they tend to do here in CALI, then there is a good chance you will be on the receiving end of a ticket at best sometime down the line, which is perfectly fine if you are willing to put up with that sort of headache and have the money to hand over. 3) There is a way that the manufacture of the EFI system to get it approved and receive a CARB EO#. The process is outlined on the ARB website. If I was one seriously thinking about getting this conversion and had that type of money to blow, then I would definitely get in contact with the company and inquire about wether or not they plan on doing this, especially when most of the highest populated States have already adopted the CARB standards. |
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April 17th, 2011, 11:34 PM | #99 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Cuong
Location: San Diego
Join Date: Jul 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250r, 2007 Daytona 675 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Technically speaking, almost every aftermarket exhaust is illegal since full exhausts removes both catalytic converters (and every pipe is generally louder). I haven't really heard of anyone being ticketed for this yet though. I am curious if the EFI kit actually makes the bike more green as most FI equivalents are. related thread: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...ght=inspection |
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April 18th, 2011, 12:12 AM | #100 |
SLIME-R
Name: AMMOCAN
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): *SOLD* '10 Kawasaki 250R SE A.K.A. SLIME-R *SOLD* Posts: 596
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Yes, you are correct that the original bill was amended and thus the smog testing didn't pass, which is why I said they were working on it, as I have recently heard that because of the change in Sacramento both C.A.R.B. and other EPA activists are gearing up for another round due to the current proposed support of both State and Federal legislatures.
I didn't mention anything about the so called 'Approved Exhaust Identification' law because IMHO it is irrelevant to the topic at hand. However, for those of you interested here is a good article explaining it: Exhaust Law Again, regardless if they ever pass a mandatory smog test and full inspection into law or not it is still illegal to modify the emissions equipment put on a motorcycle by the manufacture according to C.A.R.B. regulations and you can be ticketed and fined for it. |
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April 19th, 2011, 10:02 PM | #101 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Mikel
Location: Valley of the Sun
Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): '09 Blue Kawasaki KLE650 Versys, '95 Ducati 900SS/CR (undergoing track conversion) Posts: 287
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Quote:
Arizona has areas that require smog testing of Motorcycles, Phoenix being one of them. Fortunately, the state is in the process of having that requirement put to rest as they have PROVEN that motorcycles are not enough of a pollutant in a Major Metropolitan area that has a Year Round riding season to make up 1% of the gross emissions. Several States already implement "Safety" inspections that do cover things like exhaust and airbox mods which are violations of the "alteration or modification of emission control systems".
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2009 KLE650 LSL bars, Full Muzzy PC-V 1995 900SS/CR mildly modified |
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April 21st, 2011, 07:44 AM | #102 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Spooph
Location: Golden, CO
Join Date: Jul 2010 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '15
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All you FI denouncers obviously haven't ridden in the mountains... I can't wait to see this system works so I can get my hands on one. To have the bike running right at 5,000, 10,000, 13,000 feet would be awesome!
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My therapist has 2 wheels and a seat. If you are ever in doubt to my tone, please refer to my avatar. |
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April 21st, 2011, 08:35 AM | #103 |
ModMy250.com
Name: Tri
Location: St, Louis
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R, 2005 R6 Posts: A lot.
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I was confused at first too, but from what it looks like, the turbo sucks in air thru the filter, then outputs thru that pipe that looks like an exhaust pipe, but is actually the hot side, which then runs to the IC. The IC looks to be directly bolted to the TB. The exhaust isn't bolted on yet. You can see there's nothing on the other side and can plainly see the heat shield on the right fairing. Too bad that thread is from 09 and was never updated.
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The www.ModMy250.com guy |
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April 21st, 2011, 11:57 AM | #104 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Eric
Location: Iowa City
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawmeracchi 350 2010 Project X Posts: A lot.
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The curved pipe is definitly going to the IC but that would be still cold side. The out side of the IC is what is not clear .yes the exhaust is not finished. The oil lines are all hooked up. I have seen a video of the bike running on the dyno. But they did not show the system. I would love some details
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April 21st, 2011, 12:27 PM | #105 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bob
Location: CA
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250r, '14 CBR500r Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Funny thing is I took my bike up to Tahoe to help fine tune the carbs. The idea wasn't to tune for Tahoe, but exaggerate the problems I was having to help pinpoint them. There was construction near the summit, and traffic was stopped.... I was concerned I wouldn't be able to get it moving... it was tough, but I did get it to roll. So yes, next bike will have EFI, but I'm going to watch how others do with a retro kit for awhile.
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Honda Interceptor VFR800 DLX (2014, 8th gen) Honda CBR500r (2014) - FOR SALE Kawi Ninja 250r (2008) - Restored and passed-down within family, only to be abandoned |
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April 21st, 2011, 12:42 PM | #106 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Location: .
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Honestly, the efi kit is cool, but how much would it cost to sell your ninja, and then import one from europe? Maybe you'd pay a bit more for the import, but you'd get a proven system that you wouldnt have to tweak and tune without any help, and there is a power commander for use with an FI ninja 250 that would be usable with all exhaust/intake mods you do. So IMHO, just skip the kit step, and import a euro-spec 250R. Seems easier to me.
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April 21st, 2011, 02:21 PM | #107 | |
ModMy250.com
Name: Tri
Location: St, Louis
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R, 2005 R6 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
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The www.ModMy250.com guy |
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April 21st, 2011, 09:21 PM | #108 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Spooph
Location: Golden, CO
Join Date: Jul 2010 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '15
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Quote:
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My therapist has 2 wheels and a seat. If you are ever in doubt to my tone, please refer to my avatar. |
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April 22nd, 2011, 09:37 AM | #109 |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
Location: Newnan, GA
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.
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But what about only importing only the OEM FI parts?
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April 22nd, 2011, 11:27 AM | #110 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Andrew
Location: Pensacola / Jacksonville, FL
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 09 ninja 250r Posts: 97
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April 22nd, 2011, 12:28 PM | #111 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: .
Location: .
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Well I don't know if importing the whole bike would cost more than the bike necessarily. I have a friend and her dad has an old-school mini cooper (right side drive, go cart tires, fun car) that they payed about 2000 to import from England. I mean right now I can't afford that, but later on in life when I don't want to futz with carbs, that might not be too much
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April 23rd, 2011, 07:34 PM | #112 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Spooph
Location: Golden, CO
Join Date: Jul 2010 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '15
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A possibility for sure, but when I had my local Kawi shop price out the entire system with new parts it was going to run me $1,200 plus shipping.... What WOULD be nice is to find somebody who can scour junkyards for wrecked 250FI's, rip off the parts, and ship them to the states....
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My therapist has 2 wheels and a seat. If you are ever in doubt to my tone, please refer to my avatar. |
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April 24th, 2011, 11:58 AM | #113 |
IC2(SW)
Name: Kerry
Location: Pensacola
Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: A lot.
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I just denounce CV carbs! Keihin CR's and Flatslides kick mother fooking asss in the mountains For that matter sea level too... you just walk away from another bike running CV's
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April 25th, 2011, 09:00 PM | #114 |
self wrencher
Name: john
Location: houston
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 250r and 07 600r Posts: A lot.
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I'd rock stock FI parts. This company has no phone contact for sales/tech supports. Also not sure of quality of the kit. I think we should not press our luck.
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April 26th, 2011, 10:49 AM | #115 |
ninjette.org Monkey Spank
Name: Kevin
Location: Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 250R Track-Bike Woodcraft clip-ons and rearsets FZ-6 track bike Posts: A lot.
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Interesting observation after reading this thread.
Old guys (like myself and KKim) have no problem with a carb Young guys....... like FI Could it be that the old guys had cars and trucks long before FI was an everyday product on cars?? FI is good for everyday use, cold starting etc etc. Take and FI bike to the strip and youll get hammered on buy a guy who properly tuned his carb. (for less than $20 in jets and needels) Goto any dragstrip and look under the hoods. 95% of the cars that dont have a turbo or supercharger have a big fat carb bolted to the top of the manifold. Why is that?? Ease of use, cost, tunability, simplicity and most importantly more power down the track. Dont get me wrong, an expensive and properly tuned EFI system will make as much HP as a carb. (in most cases) The problem is, that it will cost you thousands and thousands of dollars and countless hours of tuning with a laptop and a dyno to get that EFI system to make those big numbers. For those of you who dont have any carb tuning experience. Carbs are NOT complicated. Yes, they need to be maintained. Yes, they SEEM complicated. THEY ARE NOT. The only real plus to an EFI system is if it adjusts for altitude. If it doesnt adjust (closed loop) there is no real benefit to spending the $800 for FI. IMO of course.
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Black 250R Full Area P QC Dyno Jet Kit 100 main 41T Rear Sprocket |
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April 27th, 2011, 06:19 PM | #116 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Eric
Location: California, SF
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Ninja 250r SE Posts: 27
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Quote:
I know I might not know bikes alot since I just started and got my license not too long ago. But I am strongly believe that EFI is a MUCH better and efficient because I fixes cars daily as a professional(I own an auto repair shop). Why? First thing many would say, NO choke necessary. Just the couple minutes without the usage of a choke already spare quite a bit of air and not necessary for "spare the air days." Secondary, efficiency. With a properly operating o2 system, the fuel/air ratio is constantly changing to adapt to altitudes, air intake, temperature, speed and many more. You stated that why most drag strips has cars with carbs in them? Well, here's my question. Why all cars have EFI on a race track? Personally, there is nothing wrong with either system. But if you were want to have better air for the later generations EFI or even hybrids would be a better choice. Sooner or later, all carbs will be gone from the auto/bike market I guaranteed you. -AzEKnightz |
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May 9th, 2011, 06:00 PM | #117 |
ninjette.org member
Name: HECTOR
Location: Bronx NY
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): Red 08 250r Posts: 218
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Just found this looks like the same kit
http://ecotrons.com/Kawasaki_Ninja_250cc_EFI_kit.html
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http://www.nycsportbikeriders.com/ Jetkit,15/43,HID |
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May 10th, 2011, 03:11 AM | #118 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Eric
Location: Iowa City
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawmeracchi 350 2010 Project X Posts: A lot.
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This is the same kit. But plug and play?You have to weld in two O2 sensors. And then the return line hs to go back to the tank I guess .and then there is the map sensor. Two manifolds and one sensor. It looks good though.
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May 10th, 2011, 04:13 AM | #119 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Sam
Location: Northern Virginia
Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R 2009 and ZX-12R 2000 Posts: A lot.
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^^You can avoid the welding by using the clamp on bungs mentioned by kbryant of Area P in other discussions!
That kit looks good, but they don't mention the price of the optional recommended CDI. |
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May 10th, 2011, 06:49 AM | #120 | |
self wrencher
Name: john
Location: houston
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 250r and 07 600r Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
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