July 27th, 2012, 01:36 PM | #81 |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
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The 400 actually is the 650, same engine block, with smaller pistons
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July 27th, 2012, 01:46 PM | #82 |
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July 27th, 2012, 01:59 PM | #83 |
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I recommend you (and everyone here) seriously try to find an opportunity to get some seat time on a 600 supersport some time. Dealerships will frequently have demo bikes you can try, whether it's Kawasaki at this time or not.
It's easy to dog on supersport owners if you've never tried it, thinking they are insane machines for the streets. If you push it to the limit, yes, the 600 is not appropriate for public roads, but really the same could be said for 250s as well. MotoGP has a 250cc series too after all. Supersports are a huge barrel of fun though, even if you will never approach their limits. They have two characters, a docile, easy going character below 8000, and a rip your face off extreme speed character near 14000. Even if you only keep things below 8000, the markedly improved suspension, forks, braking, and steering geometry means you can have a lot of fun (and have a lot of confidence) in corners even if you only go the speed limit. Trust me, go to a demo day and you will see that 600s aren't the "big scary monsters" some of these forums make them out to be. |
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July 27th, 2012, 02:16 PM | #84 | |
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Quote:
Power in the higher RPM's is crazy though, and it's boring riding at slow speeds. It doesn't even feel like you are moving until your going 85. It's was harder to handle at slow speed and I noticed the extra weight every second I was on the bike. Of course a 600 weighs a lot more than the old 250. In the end I felt like it was more work and less fun, but I'm a heck of a lot more comfortable on my bike cause I ride it everyday.
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July 27th, 2012, 02:23 PM | #85 | |
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July 27th, 2012, 02:23 PM | #86 |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
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I have never ridden a 600, I have however ridden and owned a Ninja 650. That thing has too much power for the street. That bike is not a good beginner bike. How could a production 600 race bike that is arguably better in every aspect than the 650 be a good beginner bike?
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If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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July 27th, 2012, 02:28 PM | #87 | |
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Quote:
Same reason some have made the argument in favor of the ninja(250) over the cbr250r, low end torque can get you into trouble just like top end speed. The difference is you'll probably walk away from the low speed drop vs the high speed Sonny Bono. |
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July 27th, 2012, 02:35 PM | #88 |
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Should we take into account that OP only has one post? seems trollish.
That aside, I think that a bike between 250 and 600 would be great. There's a pretty big gap in the US, especially now that the ex500 and GS500 are no longer produced. A 400 would be nice, but more in line with the current 250r styling rather than the canadian version. I think if they had that, maybe there wouldn't be as many people starting on 600s (or moving up to 600 after a month + totaling the 250... lol) |
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July 27th, 2012, 02:38 PM | #89 | |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
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Quote:
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If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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July 27th, 2012, 02:49 PM | #90 | ||
Que Buenos Son!!!
Name: Ryan
Location: Grovetucky, OH
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MOTM - Nov '14
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Quote:
Quote:
In the end bikes below 600cc are a tough sell here. I think the Ninja 650 was always intended to be a replacement for the 500. It seems bikes are going the same way as cars, bigger and heavier but not any better.
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Don't do something because it's easy,.. Do it because it's not! If you aren't going forward, then you're falling behind. "Drive it like you stole it"!!! |
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July 27th, 2012, 02:52 PM | #91 |
ninjette.org member
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July 27th, 2012, 03:30 PM | #92 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Chris
Location: Phx
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Quote:
The nice thing about 600s is that it can be whatever bike you want. If you just want to put around down, don't use the extra RPMs, if you do, it's there for you when you want to have fun. You can shift it just like a 250R and go about as fast, or you can stretch your shifts out and be screaming down the road. Anyway, I'm glad you actually tried one. I recommend others do as well before making assumptions, such as - as soon you twist the throttle on a 600 you are going to die. |
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July 27th, 2012, 04:04 PM | #93 |
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Name: Zacko
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oh god, kawasaki please dont release a 300.
i just bought my baby for like a month i dont want my bike to be outdated already |
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July 27th, 2012, 04:21 PM | #94 | |||||
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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IF the 250 is being replaced (I dont think it will) it will be a 400cc to replace it, I'd almost guarantee that there will be a new 400 on sale next year from one of the big 4.
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I was restricted to 33bhp/25kW for 32 months, It does not promote sales or safer riding, half the riders where I'm from ignore the restriction, buy a 600, get the cert, take out the baffles & ride on regardless. I got the ninja (which is quoted as 33bhp) so I kept it & served my time, but I ride like an because of it, I should have moved up in power over a year ago, but instead I followed the law (at least in part) but have taken to misbehaving on the road, obnoxious lean angles for city riding, winding it on Quote:
Quote:
A1) 16 - <125cc & <11kW =>2 year wait & test/training course to move up to A2 A2) 18 - <600cc & <35kW (test on a >400cc bike) bikes may be restricted from higher power, but may not have their power reduced by over half =>2 year wait & test/training course to move up to A A) 20 - unrestricted cc & hp Direct access to A will be available to riders over 24, they havn't mentioned how that will be done, but the current UK system is a 3 day course & a stricter test on a >500cc bike. Quote:
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July 27th, 2012, 04:29 PM | #95 |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
Name: Sean
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MOTM - Apr '13
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So that makes it a good beginner bike?
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If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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July 27th, 2012, 04:40 PM | #96 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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They have it as an intermediate bike.
It'll be something like CBR 125 => something 400 => any bike It seems that you have to do the 4 years & 2 tests or 3 training courses & 1 test to full power (Ireland had originally announced 6.5 year minimum where you would have the same power restriction for the final 4 years) the actual implementation was only announced today and is written in legalese so it'll take a while for the RSA (DMV) staff to figure it out. Edit: I was dealing with your 1st point- fixed the quote. And no a full power 600 SS is a bit much for a 1st bike, but I took one for a spin within months of getting my 1st bike, it was scary fast wen I wound it on but manageable when I didn't misbehave on it |
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July 27th, 2012, 04:44 PM | #97 |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
Name: Sean
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MOTM - Apr '13
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But sir, even though my harley is 800cc's it won't go over 80mph, can't I please ride it?
__________________________________________________
If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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July 27th, 2012, 04:49 PM | #98 |
ninjette.org member
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I actually question whether bikes like the SV650 or Ninja 650 are actually better "beginner bikes" then a 600 supersport. In the case of the Ninja 650, the latest generation actually weighs more then the ZX6R. The suspension of a ZX6R is light years beyond the 650 and the power delivery "around town" in the lower rev range is much more docile.
Personally I don't think either the SV650 or Ninja 650 are good for beginners. I don't think they are much better then a supersport either, if at all. If anything the torque makes them more of a hooligan bike for around town. I think stepping up to something like a supersport from a 250 makes more sense in a lot of ways. You learn what a high quality suspension feels like. You can learn even greater finesse with the throttle by slowing learning to dip into the upper rev range, and you can learn more about power management for the streets. A Ninja 650 or SV650 on the other hand will just feel like a rocket across the whole rev range. Again, not saying that either bike would be good for a beginner, but I'm not sure it's as cut and dry as people make it out to be. |
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July 27th, 2012, 04:51 PM | #99 | |
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let people get what the want, if you're an idiot & want to kill yourself starting on a 1000cc superbike with no helmet & only a borat mankini on go for it, just carry an organ donor card. |
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July 27th, 2012, 04:57 PM | #100 |
ninjette.org sage
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i hear they'll make it a three cylinder too.
gtfo troll! lol |
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July 27th, 2012, 04:58 PM | #101 |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
Name: Sean
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MOTM - Apr '13
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Are we really arguing that 600s are better for a beginner because they are slower than 650s?
Ninja 650R zx6r
__________________________________________________
If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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July 27th, 2012, 05:03 PM | #102 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Chris
Location: Phx
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Quote:
I would argue a 600 is easier to ride slowly once you have learned the basics on a 250. There's nothing hard or challenging about shifting below 8000 RPMs. |
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July 27th, 2012, 05:06 PM | #103 | |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
Name: Sean
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MOTM - Apr '13
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Quote:
I'm going to go dig up my stash of percocet now
__________________________________________________
If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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July 27th, 2012, 05:12 PM | #104 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Chris
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To be clear I said repeatedly that both a 600 supersport and a 650 are TERRIBLE bikes for beginners. They aren't good platforms to learn the basics of throttle control, they are heavier then 250s so are harder to learn the basics of smooth cornering lines and ramping up lean angles. There are many benefits a 250 has over either a 650 or a 600 SS.
Between a 650 and 600SS , well there are pros and cons. 650 has several cons such as - heavier then a 600SS on a much crappier suspension with much lower limits, but can still go the same speeds as a 600SS around town "light to light". Seems like you want to say there are absolutely no pros for a 600SS and absolutely no cons for a 650. Well, that's your opinion, but I disagree. Enjoy the percocet. |
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July 27th, 2012, 05:15 PM | #105 |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
Name: Sean
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MOTM - Apr '13
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No, the 650 would be a ****** option for a new rider, a 600 would be an even shittier option
The whole discussion was "Hey 600s aren't that bad as a first bike and are easier than a 650!"
__________________________________________________
If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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July 27th, 2012, 05:17 PM | #106 | |
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Quote:
Not all 600 I4s are supersports, all the big 4 have a SS & a sports model, kawi is the only one not doing a sports I4 Suzuki Kawi's I4 sports is a 750 |
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July 27th, 2012, 05:21 PM | #107 | |
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Quote:
Another point I was making is that I don't think you will learn much as a rider stepping up from a 250 to a 650. Stepping to a 600 you can control how often you dip into that rev range, and you can play with a much more flickable, confidence inspiring chassis. |
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July 27th, 2012, 05:24 PM | #108 | |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
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MOTM - Apr '13
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Quote:
I think most people are under the impression that when you say 600 you mean r6 not fz6r
__________________________________________________
If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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July 27th, 2012, 05:28 PM | #110 | |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
Name: Sean
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MOTM - Apr '13
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Quote:
There is no doubt that a 600 will allow you to advance your skills more than a 250, but that takes place on a race track not a city street
__________________________________________________
If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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July 27th, 2012, 05:28 PM | #111 |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
Name: Sean
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MOTM - Apr '13
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__________________________________________________
If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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July 27th, 2012, 05:41 PM | #112 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Karl
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Quote:
Like I (well, Jiggles I suppose) said, brain surgeon's going for the janitor's position. |
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July 27th, 2012, 05:44 PM | #113 |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
Name: Sean
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MOTM - Apr '13
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Looks like a mistake on your part about what motorcycles you meant. You didn't say supersports, you said anything over 300ccs
__________________________________________________
If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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July 27th, 2012, 05:46 PM | #114 |
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So....
This thread got lost and is now on the way to "Is this s**t for-real-ville?" |
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July 27th, 2012, 05:47 PM | #115 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Karl
Location: MA
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July 27th, 2012, 05:47 PM | #116 |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
Name: Sean
Location: San Jose, Ca
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MOTM - Apr '13
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Original title of the thread is so ridiculously absurd that we just had to make this thread at least a little entertaining
__________________________________________________
If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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July 27th, 2012, 05:50 PM | #117 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Karl
Location: MA
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We need a 666cc bike.
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July 27th, 2012, 05:51 PM | #118 |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
Name: Sean
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MOTM - Apr '13
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With 66 cylinders
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If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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July 27th, 2012, 06:05 PM | #119 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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I'm going on experience of twins Vs I4s & hopping on any bike I can get a go of,
the twins have more grunt down low & will pull harder from the light & at lower RPMs, they have higher torque values too. The I4s are a bit quicker higher up but feel weaker at lower RPM. Horsepower is proportional to torque at a given RPM, below 6.5k RPM on your graphs the ER6 has the advantage. so for city riding torque has a bigger impact on acceleration. Are you going to wind the ZX6 to 14k RPM in town, or will you have the ER6 at 6k? |
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July 27th, 2012, 06:10 PM | #120 |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
Name: Sean
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MOTM - Apr '13
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I was saying that your determination of what hp and torque relate to are wrong. yes, under 6k the 650 has 5 more horsepower but I fail to see how a 10% difference in hp is the determining factor that a 600 is a better beginner bike than a 650
Also consider that at 6k rpms the 650 is more than halfway to redline and a 600 is about 1/3 there
__________________________________________________
If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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