What is Torque and Horsepower? - Page 3

choneofakind · April 30th, 2012, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Such a simple explanation really doesn't help you understand how it applies to cars or motorcycles though

yes it does. Work is force multiplied by time. if your bike has more power (rate of work) at the peak rpm, it is applying more force over the same distance. Therefore, it can attain higher speeds because it will take more speed for the wind resistance to equal the forward force of your bike.

so when it is turning, it is creating power. torque is what makes the wheel gain radial velocity. aka, torque is acceleration that you feel while power is in charge of your top speed.

Jiggles · April 30th, 2012, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choneofakind

so when it is turning, it is creating power. torque is what makes the wheel gain radial velocity. aka, torque is acceleration that you feel while power is in charge of your top speed.

Except that isn't correct

choneofakind · April 30th, 2012, 08:42 PM

it's not? torque is the radial version of force and causes radial acceleration.

when your wheels undergo radial acceleration, you feel the linear acceleration. Therefore, torque is what makes you feel acceleration.

Jiggles · April 30th, 2012, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choneofakind

it's not? torque is the radial version of force and causes radial acceleration.

when your wheels undergo radial acceleration, you feel the linear acceleration. Therefore, torque is what makes you feel acceleration.

Well yes and know, you have to incorporate hp into that. If you make the same torque at 4000 and 6000 rpms, you will be accelerating faster at 6000 rpms because the horsepower will be higher.

So yes torque affects the acceleration, but you have to incorporate rpms (and therefore hp) into that as well.

choneofakind · April 30th, 2012, 08:52 PM

ugh. Whatever I'll just stick to tuning my carbs so they run smoothly and let a professor teach me about hp and torque in the context of engines later on...

Jiggles · April 30th, 2012, 09:02 PM

Here's a simple way that I have it broken down in my funked up brain. Make it simple and assume a constant torque through the entire power curve. Lets think of torque in a kind of wrong and abstract manner. Let's assume that 1 unit of torque at 1000rpm accelerates the bike at a certain rate. At 2000rpms we have now doubled the acceleration rate but the torque has stayed constant. Think of 1 revolution of torque pushing the bike a certain amount, the more revolutions you squeeze into a minute (trying to make this simple) the more times that unit of torque is pushing the bike. So while the torque remains constant, it's pushing the bike more and more as the rpms rise. The easy way to measure that is with the HP curve, you can see that as the rpms rise, the torque is being applied "more effectively"

Does this make sense or am I crazy

choneofakind · April 30th, 2012, 09:05 PM

Makes sense for a motorcycle with a high-strung HP curve, but doesn't explain diesel vehicles that make insane torque, but not a ton of HP up top.

Jiggles · April 30th, 2012, 09:07 PM

They have low rpms

HP = torque*rpm/5252

If the truck can redline at 5252 rpms, then its max HP will be equal to torque

Being that diesel is slow burning, the piston recieves a lot of force over a long time compared to gas, so diesel engines can't rev nearly as high as gasoling, so their HP is diminished because of it. But in those lower revs the produce a ton of force which gives them a very high amount of torque

choneofakind · April 30th, 2012, 09:08 PM

I know they have low rpm's but there's a "top end" for them too, it's just like a tenth of our top end

Jiggles · April 30th, 2012, 09:13 PM

But the top end might be like 4500 rpms, in which case, using the formula, you can see that the HP would never be greater than the torque. Whereas if you look at a car, like my maxima that redlines at 6500 rpms, now we are multiplying the torque since we are over 5252 rpms instead of fractioning it

choneofakind · April 30th, 2012, 09:55 PM

So in the case of a diesel the torque would be the determining factor in how quickly the vehicle accelerates since the hp is not greater than the torque?

Jiggles · April 30th, 2012, 10:32 PM

No, HP still determines the acceleration. Heres an interesting way to think about it that just popped into my head

First scenario, A: Sportbike VS B: Diesel truck. Imagine we are torquing a bolt with a wrench A is a scrawny guy, he represents the low torque of a sportbike, and he has a huge wrench, like 6 feet, which represents the bikes rpm range against B a super buff body builder, representing the high torque of a diesel engine, he has a short wrench, about 1 foot, representing the trucks rpm range.

The scrawny guy can make his small amount of torque more effective (i.e. generate more horsepower) because he has a long wrench, or longer rpm range and he can generate high amounts of "horsepower" at the top end of his wrench. But if he moves to 1 foot out on his 6 foot wrench, he can't generate as much power as the strong guy.

The strong guy has a ton more HP available to him at that shorter end, but the scrawny guy has the ability to rev up the length of his wrench and generate more "hp"

I'm just trying to change the more complex model of an engines torque vs hp into a more visible muscle vs wrench idea. Hope it makes sense

choneofakind · April 30th, 2012, 10:36 PM

That actually makes sense Sean thanks. Stay on the pills. They're helping you explain physics to me

Jiggles · April 30th, 2012, 10:40 PM

ajcadoo · April 30th, 2012, 11:35 PM

Douche answer time:

http://bit.ly/Iio59N

Jiggles · April 30th, 2012, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajcadoo

Douche answer time:

http://bit.ly/Iio59N

Right on!

Discussing things is for dumbasses!

ajcadoo · May 1st, 2012, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Right on!

Discussing things is for dumbasses!

Hey broski, I already had the role as "Douche Answerer". You may not take said role away from me!

etiainen · May 1st, 2012, 07:58 PM

I has more torque.

I win.

Idk, I just wanted to say that.

choneofakind · May 1st, 2012, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by etiainen

I has more torque.

I has more hp

Jiggles · May 1st, 2012, 09:09 PM

etiainen · May 2nd, 2012, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I has more hp

I see we are at an impasse.

choneofakind · May 2nd, 2012, 02:29 PM

espacef1fan · May 2nd, 2012, 05:54 PM

Torque and Horsepower related to motorcycles= The Ninja 250 has neither.

lol

blink · May 2nd, 2012, 07:57 PM

So many difficult answers, when OP asks for simple

HP, power

Torque, pulling power (right when you get on the gas and feel the pull, thats torque going )

Jiggles · May 2nd, 2012, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blink

So many difficult answers, when OP asks for simple

HP, power

Torque, pulling power (right when you get on the gas and feel the pull, thats torque going )

It's also hp

Sigma.40 · May 2nd, 2012, 08:11 PM

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

April 30th, 2012, 09:02 PM	#86
Jiggles Jigglin' your Jiglets Name: Sean Location: San Jose, Ca Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 1 MOTM - Apr '13	Here's a simple way that I have it broken down in my funked up brain. Make it simple and assume a constant torque through the entire power curve. Lets think of torque in a kind of wrong and abstract manner. Let's assume that 1 unit of torque at 1000rpm accelerates the bike at a certain rate. At 2000rpms we have now doubled the acceleration rate but the torque has stayed constant. Think of 1 revolution of torque pushing the bike a certain amount, the more revolutions you squeeze into a minute (trying to make this simple) the more times that unit of torque is pushing the bike. So while the torque remains constant, it's pushing the bike more and more as the rpms rise. The easy way to measure that is with the HP curve, you can see that as the rpms rise, the torque is being applied "more effectively" Does this make sense or am I crazy __________________________________________________ If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs

April 30th, 2012, 09:07 PM	#88
Jiggles Jigglin' your Jiglets Name: Sean Location: San Jose, Ca Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 1 MOTM - Apr '13	They have low rpms HP = torque*rpm/5252 If the truck can redline at 5252 rpms, then its max HP will be equal to torque Being that diesel is slow burning, the piston recieves a lot of force over a long time compared to gas, so diesel engines can't rev nearly as high as gasoling, so their HP is diminished because of it. But in those lower revs the produce a ton of force which gives them a very high amount of torque __________________________________________________ If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs

April 30th, 2012, 09:13 PM	#90
Jiggles Jigglin' your Jiglets Name: Sean Location: San Jose, Ca Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 1 MOTM - Apr '13	But the top end might be like 4500 rpms, in which case, using the formula, you can see that the HP would never be greater than the torque. Whereas if you look at a car, like my maxima that redlines at 6500 rpms, now we are multiplying the torque since we are over 5252 rpms instead of fractioning it __________________________________________________ If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs

April 30th, 2012, 10:32 PM	#92
Jiggles Jigglin' your Jiglets Name: Sean Location: San Jose, Ca Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 1 MOTM - Apr '13	No, HP still determines the acceleration. Heres an interesting way to think about it that just popped into my head First scenario, A: Sportbike VS B: Diesel truck. Imagine we are torquing a bolt with a wrench A is a scrawny guy, he represents the low torque of a sportbike, and he has a huge wrench, like 6 feet, which represents the bikes rpm range against B a super buff body builder, representing the high torque of a diesel engine, he has a short wrench, about 1 foot, representing the trucks rpm range. The scrawny guy can make his small amount of torque more effective (i.e. generate more horsepower) because he has a long wrench, or longer rpm range and he can generate high amounts of "horsepower" at the top end of his wrench. But if he moves to 1 foot out on his 6 foot wrench, he can't generate as much power as the strong guy. The strong guy has a ton more HP available to him at that shorter end, but the scrawny guy has the ability to rev up the length of his wrench and generate more "hp" I'm just trying to change the more complex model of an engines torque vs hp into a more visible muscle vs wrench idea. Hope it makes sense __________________________________________________ If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs

April 30th, 2012, 10:40 PM	#94
Jiggles Jigglin' your Jiglets Name: Sean Location: San Jose, Ca Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 1 MOTM - Apr '13	__________________________________________________ If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs

April 30th, 2012, 08:42 PM	#83
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	it's not? torque is the radial version of force and causes radial acceleration. when your wheels undergo radial acceleration, you feel the linear acceleration. Therefore, torque is what makes you feel acceleration.

April 30th, 2012, 08:52 PM	#85
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	ugh. Whatever I'll just stick to tuning my carbs so they run smoothly and let a professor teach me about hp and torque in the context of engines later on...

April 30th, 2012, 09:05 PM	#87
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	Makes sense for a motorcycle with a high-strung HP curve, but doesn't explain diesel vehicles that make insane torque, but not a ton of HP up top.

April 30th, 2012, 09:08 PM	#89
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	I know they have low rpm's but there's a "top end" for them too, it's just like a tenth of our top end

April 30th, 2012, 09:55 PM	#91
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	So in the case of a diesel the torque would be the determining factor in how quickly the vehicle accelerates since the hp is not greater than the torque?

April 30th, 2012, 10:36 PM	#93
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	That actually makes sense Sean thanks. Stay on the pills. They're helping you explain physics to me

April 30th, 2012, 11:35 PM	#95
ajcadoo Towster ['__'`,-, Name: Josh Location: San Diego, CA Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Green Ninja 250 SE Posts: 379	Douche answer time: http://bit.ly/Iio59N

May 1st, 2012, 07:58 PM	#98
etiainen CBR250R Traitor Name: Jon Location: Greater Philadelphia Area Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Red CBR250R 2009 Ninja 250r SE(With 2008 Fairings)(sold) Posts: 924	I has more torque. I win. Idk, I just wanted to say that.

May 1st, 2012, 09:09 PM	#100
Jiggles Jigglin' your Jiglets Name: Sean Location: San Jose, Ca Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 1 MOTM - Apr '13	__________________________________________________ If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs

May 2nd, 2012, 02:29 PM	#102
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14

May 2nd, 2012, 05:54 PM	#103
espacef1fan ninjette.org member Name: ADAM Location: fort campbell, ky Join Date: Mar 2012 Motorcycle(s): Suzuki TL1000R Posts: 112	Torque and Horsepower related to motorcycles= The Ninja 250 has neither. lol

May 2nd, 2012, 07:57 PM	#104
blink Always. Name: Alex Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250, '05 GSX-R600 Posts: A lot.	So many difficult answers, when OP asks for simple HP, power Torque, pulling power (right when you get on the gas and feel the pull, thats torque going ) __________________________________________________ blink-182

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