Official 2013 Ninja 300 (and 250) Thread

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Regarding the Ninja 300R, I think the price tag is going to drive a lot of new riders to the CBR 250. In the UK, new riders are apparently limited to 250cc so Kawasaki clearly shot off their own foot with that one. Its possible that they will reintroduce the 250 to US and UK markets next year.

No that's never been the case, it's 125cc & 11bhp until you've done your test, then (depending on how old you are & which test you do) it's either unrestricted cc & bhp (if you're Over 21 & did the Direct Access scheme on a 500cc+ bike) or 2 years on 33bhp (unlimited cc, I've seen a restricted ZZR 1400) if you're under 21 or if you decided against the DA course.

Now it's changing to a 3 tiered system, ages are increasing & so are hp limits, but there is a new restriction coming in, no bike can be taken below half it's stated power & the middle level test is to be done on a 400 (Which I predicted would be announced this year alongside the 250)

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Not a clue you'd have to put each in a wind tunnel and test a bit.

The new bike might be more slicked back, but the pregen is pretty narrow, so it has a relatively small profile. Now how that applies to how much drag each bike is fighting at a given speed? Idk. Anything we have is just going to be guestimation.

The main variables are the Coefficient of Drag (Cd) and frontal area. I couldn't find the actual Cd so I used the Cd for the average sport bike. To get the actual Cd, you pretty much have to use a wind tunnel. For some reason, Kawasaki hasn't published these numbers that I could find. The lower the Cd, the lower the overall wind resistance.

[wayanlam]

yeah someone buy the 300, crash it (safely) and sell me the engine block for a good price please

ill just have to figure out how to smuggle the bugger into the country, ha ha

[Pyro]

Would love to know what we're getting in South Africa.

Here we had the 250 FI already. Already confirmed we're not getting the 400.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

The main variables are the Coefficient of Drag (Cd) and frontal area. I couldn't find the actual Cd so I used the Cd for the average sport bike. To get the actual Cd, you pretty much have to use a wind tunnel. For some reason, Kawasaki hasn't published these numbers that I could find. The lower the Cd, the lower the overall wind resistance.

True as far as it goes, but I'd humbly suggest that the biggest variable is the rider. Sit up and there's drastically more drag than when tucked. Loose, flapping clothes generate a lot of drag. Big people present much more frontal area than small people. Etc.

I have a moderate amount of experience with aerodynamics via human-powered vehicles. Wind resistance is partly Cd, but there's more to it. Focus on what's causing the drag, not the Cd number.

Near the surface of the body, there's region of flow called the "boundary layer." If it stays evenly attached to the body, then drag is low. If it separates, eddies (vortices) form and drag skyrockets. This is what happens when an airplane wing stalls.

There are two ways to keep the boundary layer attached. One is to go for laminar flow -- very, very smooth surfaces almost parallel to the flow direction. That means no seams cross-wise to the flow (even a decal can trip the layer), glass-smooth surfaces, no sharp lines or transitions. A polished egg, basically. Laminar flow is very low-drag but very delicate and easy to destroy.

The other way is to energize the layer (make it turbulent) but keep it attached. Again, no abrupt transitions, steep angles or gaps... but you create turbulence with dimples (think golf ball), vortex generators, etc. Much less sensitive than laminar flow but not as low-drag.

Once the boundary layer flow detaches from the surface of the bodywork, you might as well just have a trash can covering the frame of your bike. How it looks is unimportant if the air flowing over it is detached. The surface is effectively "invisible" to the airflow.

On a factory bike, there are so many creases, gaps, seams, ledges, edges, fasteners etc. that there's no way the boundary layer is going to stay attached past, say, the headlight and windscreen.

Fact of the matter is that as sexy as the bodywork may be, a motorcycle is pretty lousy aerodynamically. Any Cd differences between pregen, newgen and next-gen bodywork are most likely trivial in their net effect, especially when you put a rider on board.

Next time you see a squid with his T-shirt riding up his back, think about the energy that's making it happen. Where's it coming from? Answer: It's coming from vortices created by the passage of the bike through the air. Totally detached flow. They suck huge amounts of energy... and no amount of good-looking bodywork at the front or sides of the machine is going to make them go away.

To make a real difference aerodynamically, the whole thing has to be more enclosed, with a tail, top, doors...

[n4mwd]

Sounds like a good argument to pass a law requiring all female riders wear tight fitting leathers in order to save fuel.

Anyhow, regarding dimples, didn't they prove on Mythbusters that a car with a dimpled skin is more aerodynamic than smooth skin? It was something to do with why they put dimples in golf balls.

The argument for requiring female riders to wear aerodynamic leathers is starting to look bad.

[Jiggles]

They should be wearing aerodynamic leathers, with holes

[n4mwd]

Ok, the dimple argument is looking better.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Sounds like a good argument to pass a law requiring all female riders wear tight fitting leathers in order to save fuel.

Anyhow, regarding dimples, didn't they prove on Mythbusters that a car with a dimpled skin is more aerodynamic than smooth skin? It was something to do with why they put dimples in golf balls.

The argument for requiring female riders to wear aerodynamic leathers is starting to look bad.

Girls with dimples are cute. And aerodynamic.

I love Mythbusters. Their methodology was sound but they would have gotten better results with smaller dimples. The boundary layer isn't that thick. Also, you don't need to bother past a certain point on the body... the flow will separate anyway. But they don't have the resources or time to go into that much detail.

Cool story about laminar flow... possibly apocryphal. When building an airplane, you can use flush rivets (smooth surface) or conventional, round-headed rivets. The latter take less work (so faster to build the plane) and cost less but cause drag. In WWII Supermarine wanted to figure out how many flush rivets they actually needed on the Spitfire, so they built a plane that was entirely flush riveted and glued thousands of dried split peas over the surface to simulate round head rivets. They then did a series of test flights, removing more and more peas starting at the wing leading edges, until they got no further improvement in handling or performance. Very clever.

[thomason2wheels]

Originally Posted by rceezy

If it comes with a hot chick, I'm sold.

That particular hot chick gets my vote

[thomason2wheels]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

They should be wearing aerodynamic leathers, with holes

Women are already equipped with two aerodynamic devices an ex coworker labelled as "windsplitters" that men just dont have.

[Jiggles]

Can also be used as emergency airbags

[Aufitt]

http://www.bikesales.com.au/reviews/...inja-300-32492

First Aussie test, The new 300 has caught up to the Honda but not as impressive as first thought. Dammit I really wanted it to be miles better.

I only ride my cbr on the track and yes it suffers on the straight bits (like any small bike) but it really makes ground where it matters.

Got some thinking to do before changing over.

[Jiggles]

Caught up to the honda? That was a bad joke

[Surferboy120]

Originally Posted by Aufitt

http://www.bikesales.com.au/reviews/...inja-300-32492

First Aussie test, The new 300 has caught up to the Honda but not as impressive as first thought. Dammit I really wanted it to be miles better.

I only ride my cbr on the track and yes it suffers on the straight bits (like any small bike) but it really makes ground where it matters.

Got some thinking to do before changing over.

Seemed like they didnt want to knock the Honda to much. Either way Honda and Kawi will make bank on these bikes.

[Aufitt]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Caught up to the honda? That was a bad joke

Honda has outsold the Ninja bigtime in Oz.
They are the same price since the introduction of the cbr early last year.

And no Ninja has ever passed me on the track days , so no joke there either.
I am looking to swap to a 300 (now that 250 production racing in my state looks like it wont happen) because I just like riding small bikes, and prefer to just go for my monthly blast in a safe environment.

If its going to be a whole lot quicker which makes it nicer for the ever closing and widening gap between the big bikes at different parts of the circuit (which becomes dangerous for all) then I'm there.. the New 300 is only $200 more than the dinosoar it replaces.

[Jiggles]

I'll bet that if you rode a ninja 250 no ninja would pass you either. A superior bike won't make up for a riders lack of skill. Put two racers of equivalent skill on the cbr and ninja and the ninja will win, it's a superior bike.

[Aufitt]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I'll bet that if you rode a ninja 250 no cbr would pass you down the straight either. A superior bike won't make up for a riders lack of skill. Put two racers of equivalent skill on the cbr and ninja and the ninja will win on the boring bits on a long straight, it's a superior bike over 90mph.

FIXED that for you

[Jiggles]

[wayanlam]

^^ lolz~

[lgk]

The ninja is definitely the better bike even with the old gen.

Thats not saying the cbr is bad.
The ninja is just that good

[Toly]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Girls with dimples are cute. And aerodynamic.

I love Mythbusters. Their methodology was sound but they would have gotten better results with smaller dimples. The boundary layer isn't that thick. Also, you don't need to bother past a certain point on the body... the flow will separate anyway. But they don't have the resources or time to go into that much detail.

Dimples work for golf balls and other blunt shapes. They don't work for airfoils (as dimples decrease drag due to separation, at the price of increased skin friction drag)

So, dimples will work with some girls and not the others: if they're teardrop-shaped or slender, skin friction is good... if they're ball-shaped, separation is likely

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Toly

So, dimples will work with some girls and not the others: if they're teardrop-shaped or slender, skin friction is good... if they're ball-shaped, separation is likely

So ok, hot biker chicks should wear tight leathers with holes in them and fat
chicks should go without dimples.
Posted via Mobile Device

[GreenNinja]

n4wmd, how did we go from talking about the new 300 to you thinking about girls in leather?

[psych0hans]

Originally Posted by GreenNinja

n4wmd, how did we go from talking about the new 300 to you thinking about girls in leather?

It was always about the girls in leather... The 300 was just an excuse :P

[n4mwd]

The 300 is for the fatter chicks. The hot chicks can still fit on a 250.

The odds are that the 300 is more aerodynamic than the newgen and newgen more aerodynamic than the pregen. That's simply saying that a better Cd is one of the things that evolves in sport bikes.

Putting a hot chick on it with tight one piece leathers and dimples just makes it go that much faster. I signed up with T-mobile too.

[adouglas]

Yep, I've been thinking about girls in leather ever since I started thinking about girls.

Starting with this one.

[Jiggles]

I'd think the pregen would be the most aerodynamic considering it is the smallest

[GreenNinja]

Personally I prefer them like this....

[lgk]

Originally Posted by GreenNinja

Personally I prefer them like this....

i'm not opposed to vinyl

[Kstorm21]

Anyone think, or know if any of the 08-12 stuff will fit on the 13? Like lighting stuff (tail light, turn signals)?

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by CZroe

It's a $900 hike for fuel injection and a 20% larger engine. Everyone estimates $500 for FI so $400 for the extra size/power isn't that far off base and may attract quite a few who might be on the fence about the CBR250 or R2.5 vs a larger bike. A lot who weren't considering a bike twice the size would still go for it because it isn't significantly larger than the other options but is measurably better. I suspect that the economies of scale for adding FI isn't as expensive as people estimate, so it may be possible to sell it for under $5,000 on the introductory year. It's not like more CCs automatically means that it cost more to make, which is even more incentive for Kawi to just do it. They already have a FI version and the economies of scale will only make it cheaper to produce than the current FI model. They could conceivably offer 300cc Euro-spec for LESS money than the current model, though it would be a problem for graduated licensing so they would more likely sell the same thing but sleeved down.

I'm just saying that it could be a smart move if the Yamaha 250 rumor is true. Also, I know the steering damper sounds silly, but so is a slipper clutch on a street bike. It's just one more way they could profit off of the perceived performance advantage it would have over the competition. And the pointlessness of it for a bike targetted at learners is exactly why I suggested that it would make sense only as an option (profit off of the few that want more).

Slipper clutch? Check.
Under $5,000 on introductory year? Check.
Accessorizing to add profit? Double-check (factory tanks bags and "engine guard" frame protectors/sliders and solo seat cowls and tank pads and sport-touring windscreens- OH MY!)

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Kstorm21

Anyone think, or know if any of the 08-12 stuff will fit on the 13? Like lighting stuff (tail light, turn signals)?

The tail light and front turn signals are clearly too different. You have looked at the pictures, right?

I think that the wheels may fit because the swingarm looks the same, there was always room for a wider rim, and the front tire size didn't change, but that's just a guess. The little hugger might swap for the same reason. Sprocket cover looks like it may have changed a bit (fewer bolts?) but it may still swap one way, which would be cool considering that the 2012 cover actually fits a 1986 bike (pre-pregen). Sprockets, chain, air filters, etc: Dunno. The wiring harness is too different for a straight gauge swap. The handlebars and triple-tree clamps do look the same. The front fender mount may be different so the forks may have changed slightly. Windscreens and fairings obviously don't swap.

[Kstorm21]

Originally Posted by CZroe

The tail light and front turn signals are clearly too different. You have looked at the pictures, right?

Well, I knew the front turn signals wouldn't. I just wasn't sure about the rear and the tail light. I tried to find a close up of the 08-12 but I didn't find one. Thought I'd ask here.
I'm torn between buying a 2013 or staying with the 08-12. I was part of the group buy for the integrated tail light with LED turn signals. I was pretty sure I'd already have a bike by now.... Plus, living in Hawaii, I could buy two used ones for the price of a new one. (they are saying 8K OTD) I do love the FI, digital guage, and ABS. Other than that it doesn't matter. I wish they had other options for the ABS bike other than the kawi green/black.

[Surferboy120]

I thought this was a good review from someone who had ridden the 250 ninja and wasn't to impressed but was turned around by the 300. Interesting note when he said 80 to 100 mph was a breeze.

http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=26361

Enjoy the review.

[thurt88]

Thanks for posting the review. That's exactly what I expect to feel about it. Looking forward to it non the less.

[n4mwd]

Specs:
2013 Ninja 300
Engine: 296cc, liquid-cooled parallel twin, DOHC, fuel injection
Power: 39hp @ 11,000rpm
Torque: 20ft.lb @ 10,000rpm
Top speed: 105mph (est)
Weight: 172kg (dry)
MPG: 60 (est)
Price: £4,800 (TBC)

If that MPG figure is anything close to accurate, then the 300 is a gas hog compared to others. Since this is a UK review, I'm sure they are talking about imperial gallons which makes it about 50 mpg (US). This is surprising considering the new 250 is reported to get 80 mpg. Maybe the "(est)" means they just guessed and didn't really test it.

[headshrink]

How do they come up with $8K OTD?

[Kstorm21]

Originally Posted by headshrink

How do they come up with $8K OTD?

Cause everything here is way more expensive. Even on the 2012 it's about 2K more than MSRP. Fees fees fees.

[Alex]

Here's a review tonight from Gabe over on BARF. He writes for City Bike and MotorcyleDaily.com, and has always been a fan of our tiny kawis.

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/fo...&postcount=129

Originally Posted by Gabe (from BARF)

Just spent the day riding the new bike...and wow, what a difference! Skaggs Springs Road was never that much fun on a big bike. I actually dragged my knee on Hwy One, something I haven't done for years.

The new motor is so much more powerful. You can ride it like it's a bigger bike. Cruising at a GPS-verified 85 mph is no problem and the bike doesn't feel like it's straining. Top speed (GPS verified) that I saw was 103. The speedometer was very accurate, so if other journos are seeing 112, that means the bike will actually go 106 or more. Impressive for a 300!

Also impressive is the new slipper clutch, the smooth, light transmission, good wind protection, ZX-10R-ish styling, really good fuelling and a lot of other features I'll fill you in on with my Motorcycle Daily.com review.

Going to dinner now--post questions and I'll try to ask the Kawi product planners and project leader (in from Japan for this event) to get real answers.