Ecotrons Install Thread

[Red250R]

sooooo bike won't start. it cranks but doesn't turn over. Pump turns on and shut off after several seconds like it says. The pump also runs while trying to start it too. The tach hops up to 2k as well while i try to start it. Spark plugs maybe? I didn't want to sit out there cranking it for a very long time. So i followed the instructions and i tried to connect it to ProCal but it kept telling me that it couldn't connect to the ECU. Then i realized my laptop has Windows Vista so maybe that's why it couldn't find the ECU? ProCal apparently doesn't work with Vista. Any other thoughts on it? After taking the bike off the rear stands i noticed a return clamp was leaking. But i know that wouldn't be the reason why it won't start so i'll fix that tomorrow along with any hopeful suggestions you guys have. Thanks.

[choneofakind]

Charge your battery. The kit needs a certain voltage to start. You can crank and crank until you're blue in the face, but it simply will not spark if there is not enough voltage from the battery. It also will disconnect from Procal with low battery.

As for working with vista, it definitely will work with vista, follow the instructions for installing with XP. You'll need to make it run as an admin. There's instructions for that in the install guide. I was using it with vista for a while before I got Windows 7.

[n4mwd]

If the plugs were good before they should be good now. On mine I shorted the relay contacts so that the pump would continuously run as opposed to only 6 seconds on the first start. The purpose was so that I had good fuel return and got my pump fully primed. Once the system was primed (and I measured 44 psi at the test port) I reinstalled the relay and it just started up.

I don't advise just cranking it because the ECU keeps tabs on how many failed attempts and after so many, it stops firing the injectors.

I did start it first without the O2 sensors. I don't think it makes a difference ECO vs RICH because I think its always RICH with the O2 sensors out.

[setasai]

Any backfiring? If there's backfiring, the MAP might on the wrong cylinder.

[choneofakind]

I've never had backfiring on start-up, but occasionally on gradual downhills, I'll get a little pop as I'm rolling slowly off the throttle. That's the only time though.

[Red250R]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Charge your battery. The kit needs a certain voltage to start. You can crank and crank until you're blue in the face, but it simply will not spark if there is not enough voltage from the battery. It also will disconnect from Procal with low battery.

As for working with vista, it definitely will work with vista, follow the instructions for installing with XP. You'll need to make it run as an admin. There's instructions for that in the install guide. I was using it with vista for a while before I got Windows 7.

Thats probably it. I know for almost sure because after trying to get it to crank several times it started to click. Aka, battery died, i thought it was weird that it did that. I actually still have the stock battery in it. Time for a new one perhaps? I set it on the charge for a little bit but unplugged it cuz it was getting dark. I'll take it off the bike and let it charge for a full cycle tomorrow before i try again. I wanna change out a couple pieces of my lines anyways. I can do that while it's charging. And good that it works with Vista. I was actually concerned about what i was going to do about that.

Originally Posted by n4mwd

If the plugs were good before they should be good now. On mine I shorted the relay contacts so that the pump would continuously run as opposed to only 6 seconds on the first start. The purpose was so that I had good fuel return and got my pump fully primed. Once the system was primed (and I measured 44 psi at the test port) I reinstalled the relay and it just started up.

I don't advise just cranking it because the ECU keeps tabs on how many failed attempts and after so many, it stops firing the injectors.

I did start it first without the O2 sensors. I don't think it makes a difference ECO vs RICH because I think its always RICH with the O2 sensors out.

Yeah the plugs were good before. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to get new ones in the near future. Stock plugs too. I won't try to start it again till i have a fully charged battery or a new one. We'll see how it charges up tomorrow. And i took out the O2 sensors before i tried to start it. They're easy to take in and out so i'm not too concerned.

Originally Posted by setasai

Any backfiring? If there's backfiring, the MAP might on the wrong cylinder.

The bike wouldn't even start to get that far unfortunately lol i was really hoping that i'd be able to hear what my new Tyga full exhaust sounded like over my straight pipe gsxr welded one. And its not on the wrong cylinder. 100% sure. I believe its the same cylinder as the INJ1 is on if i remember correctly.


And another side question. The throttle cables. Since the new-gen ones can fit, tight, but they fit, how can I tell if they are as tight/loose as they are supposed to be? The throttle pulls to accelerate just as it did before and it snaps back slightly slower than it used to be. Any suggestions or is it okay? It still snaps back no problem. Or is this one of those things that i should adjust to my liking as i ride and test it? I didn't look in the service manual to check what they said because i didn't think about it until this very moment lol thanks guys in advance.

[n4mwd]

I had a similar problem with mine. The bike wouldn't start reliably and it turned out to be the battery. Mine was only dropping to about 9V which would be fine for the carbed ECU, but the EFI ECU needs a higher voltage - like 10V.

One trick Matt told me about is to use a second battery to crank with. If the KEY-ON voltage is above 10V (might have to temporarily pull the headlight fuse), then you can do this experiment. I connected the ground and touched the positive on the second battery to the nut on the relay that goes to the starter. It started every single time. I went out and bought a new battery the next day and so far, no more starting issues.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by Red250R

The throttle pulls to accelerate just as it did before and it snaps back slightly slower than it used to be. Any suggestions or is it okay? It still snaps back no problem. Or is this one of those things that i should adjust to my liking as i ride and test it? I didn't look in the service manual to check what they said because i didn't think about it until this very moment lol thanks guys in advance.

probably just need to lube the cables and adjust the return cable play.

[Red250R]

Alright thanks guys. I'll try some of this tonight if I can get to it. Busy night and then class tomorrow so if I don't get to it tonight, I won't until Saturday or Sunday because weather here is gunna be ****** till then.

Any suggestions on batteries for the new gens? I'd obviously want one that still fits but has a little more juice than the stock one. Almost 6 years on a car battery is it's lifespan, I'd imagine a bike one too. Plus I don't think a new battery with some juice would hurt lol price really isn't a factor when it comes to these kinda things.

[choneofakind]

n4mwd is onto something with the second battery test. When I was having issues with re-charging my battery quickly enough, it would not start. The second I jumped it off another battery, it started without any hesitation at all.

I say charge the battery and it should be fine. Load test the battery while you're cranking. If the battery is a dud, replace that thanngggg!

[Red250R]

Well fully charged the battery. Read 13V right after i took it off the charger. Put it on the bike and tried to start. Nothing. Cranked like before but wouldn't start. Read the voltage after and it said 12V. I only have my $150 fluke meter that i use for work and it doesn't read the decimal values. I guess I'll take it to advance tomorrow or thursday and have them do an accurate load test because they're meters are more accurate than i can do. Especially right now in the dark lol

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Red250R

Any suggestions on batteries for the new gens? I'd obviously want one that still fits but has a little more juice than the stock one. Almost 6 years on a car battery is it's lifespan, I'd imagine a bike one too. Plus I don't think a new battery with some juice would hurt lol price really isn't a factor when it comes to these kinda things.

You have a newgen, but I think it uses the same battery as the pregen which is the 7L-BS. Its a 7 amp battery. For the pregen you can squeeze a 9L-BS in there, but AFAIK, that size only comes in wet battery chemistry. Most of the 7L-BS batteries are AGM or something else.

The 7L-BS is plenty big enough for the Ninja and the extra 2 amps is not worth having acid splashing all over the place.

There are lots of battery manufacturers out there. Most of them will work just fine - its just a question of longevity. YUASA is a pretty good one. I did not have much luck with the lithium. I ended up getting the lifetime warranty battery at cycle gear. Its a junk battery with a good warranty. I've replaced it several times and they always have one in stock and there is no charge or requirement of a receipt.

[choneofakind]

Don't replace the battery until you're sure that the issue is the battery.

Idea: Try jumping it off your (NON RUNNING) car. If it starts up right away, the problem is the bike's battery. If it doesn't start, the issue is the kit/fueling/whatever.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Red250R

Well fully charged the battery. Read 13V right after i took it off the charger. Put it on the bike and tried to start. Nothing. Cranked like before but wouldn't start. Read the voltage after and it said 12V. I only have my $150 fluke meter that i use for work and it doesn't read the decimal values. I guess I'll take it to advance tomorrow or thursday and have them do an accurate load test because they're meters are more accurate than i can do. Especially right now in the dark lol

You can stop by Harbor Freight and pick up a $3 DVM (free if you have a coupon) and it will do tenths accurately.

I personally wouldn't use an automotive load tester on a motorcycle battery. They load it to 100 and sometimes 200 amps. That's a bit much for our little batteries. It might be OK, but it would make me nervous. A bike shop or cycle gear will usually test it for you for free and they usually have the kind made for motorcycle batteries.

Also, don't forget to run the test while you are cranking. That is the most important one.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Also, don't forget to run the test while you are cranking. That is the most important one.

is that not load testing it? It's being tested while under load. I've never taken a motorcycle battery to an auto parts store to be 'load tested'. I've only tested the voltage while cranking.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

is that not load testing it? It's being tested while under load. I've never taken a motorcycle battery to an auto parts store to be 'load tested'. I've only tested the voltage while cranking.

Yes it is. A load tester does the same thing by shorting the battery with a resistor to simulate cranking load. But he doesn't have the right kind of DVM to do the crank test accurately. So his options are to either buy a $3 DVM or take it somewhere that has a motorcycle load tester - preferable not an auto parts store.

[n4mwd]

Ok, it looks like inflation has taken its toll. The meter is now $5.

[lgk]

Have you run procal?
Is the mil lamp lit?

Assuming all the wires are correct the ecu should be able to help you.

Eta nm i just saw your post saying you couldn't connect.

[drphils87]

@Red250R Air in the fuel lines? It wouldn't even fire the first time I tried so I let a whole bunch of air out the test port and it started... kind of.

I have a 1/4 barb on the fuel rail now.

I am having trouble with eco mode. It runs rough, except when I accelerate hard.

When I was welding my exhaust about two months ago, I used ONE of the O2 sensors to postion the two nuts over the two holes on bother headers. I couldn't get glue to hold it on there. Did "tacking" the nut on the pipe while the sensor in there ruin it?

I know exactly which sensor I used. How can a test this. I haven't used procal yet, but I'm willing to start.

[drphils87]

What about that issue that was discussed with it almost dying everytime when pulled the clutch and let the throttle go? It also does it when I want to gradually give it less a less gas until the engine is idle speed in 4th-6th gear depending on how fast I'm going. How was this resolved? Or will it fx itself when eco mode works properly?

Keep in mind I don't drive fast, and I rarely go over 6k rpm.

@choneofakind What if I use your map on my new gen? My goal is to get at least 60 mpg. What was your opinion about eco mode again?

[choneofakind]

Mine doesn't die when I pull in the clutch any more.

My map will work fine for any bike with this setup as long as they've had adequate learning time I personally hate ECO mode because I can feel it. Some people don't mind it, YMMV, you'll have to ride it for yourself to see. I came from a WELL tuned carb, so ECO bugged me.

Also, not sure why mileage is your goal on a sporting bike, but that's a matter of personal opinion and a whole new can of worms that's best left for another day.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by drphils87

When I was welding my exhaust about two months ago, I used ONE of the O2 sensors to postion the two nuts over the two holes on bother headers. I couldn't get glue to hold it on there. Did "tacking" the nut on the pipe while the sensor in there ruin it?

I know exactly which sensor I used. How can a test this. I haven't used procal yet, but I'm willing to start.

The sensor is probably fine. Its made to get hot. When you hook up procal, it will show you the output of both sensors so you can see if they are working.

The super glue method has been problematic for some people so I'm going to revise that technique in version 2 of the video.

[n4mwd]

Chris, do you know if you are stuck in whatever mode (eco vs rich) you start the bike in?

[choneofakind]

^^ D, that's what I've never figured out. Idk if you're able to switch between modes on the fly, or if the engine has to be shut off, switch toggled, and the restarted.

I only ever toggled the switch at stops when the engine was off, so I never got a chance to test that.

[drphils87]

So in eco mode it did sputter and misfire like an untuned carb for both of you guys?

I'll check both of the sensors. You're sure it wasn't a bad idea to weld the nut on with the sensor in there?

[choneofakind]

Sputter? not really. Misfire? no.

Rumble, pop, surge, and spit? Yes. It got better over time, but it was kinda rough for a while. After it got pretty good.

[drphils87]

@choneofakind Girls. But I also wanted to have at least 60 mpg and a smooth running bike.

[drphils87]

Did it run on one cylinder when you were cruising?

[lgk]

you need to go into procal and take logs.

[drphils87]

I will if I can get my hand on a laptop

[choneofakind]

No, it always ran on both cylinders. I agree with Jason. Take some logs and see if both are running the same.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by drphils87

I will if I can get my hand on a laptop

just ride your bike into the living room, then you'll be GTG

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by drphils87

So in eco mode it did sputter and misfire like an untuned carb for both of you guys?

I'll check both of the sensors. You're sure it wasn't a bad idea to weld the nut on with the sensor in there?

I used ECO mode right out of the box. I never had any misfires or sputters. The only negative thing I experienced was some rough running at certain spots, but those have ironed themselves out automatically.

So far I have not been able to duplicate the high mileage claims of the others. Its possible that its because I ride harder and faster than some. And possibly because I'm heavier (220#). All of which can suck the mileage down.

I didn't say it was a good idea to weld the nut with the sensor in it, I just said it probably wouldn't hurt it to tack the nut in place (not weld the whole nut). Either way, you wont know anything for sure until you hook up procal. Matt sells a bluetooth converter so you can use your smart phone or android tablet for procal.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

So far I have not been able to duplicate the high mileage claims of the others. Its possible that its because I ride harder and faster than some. And possibly because I'm heavier (220#). All of which can suck the mileage down.

Do another data log, isolate the TPS, screen shot it, and post here. I'll do my best to get out and log my throttle use. We'll compare.

Not sure weight really does that much for mileage as I never ride in a tuck, but I'm 135-140# fwiw.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Do another data log, isolate the TPS, screen shot it, and post here. I'll do my best to get out and log my throttle use. We'll compare.

Not sure weight really does that much for mileage as I never ride in a tuck, but I'm 135-140# fwiw.

The extra weight does make a difference in city driving, but not hwy so much. Especially since my bike is either idling or WOT - not much in between.

When I ride with my friend on trips, I always get a lot better mileage. He likes to poke around at the speed limit. I may get an ulcer riding that slow, but its worth it.

On another note, my carbed bike is not feeling well this evening. There was a break in the rain so I jumped on it and it cranks but no start. (Battery is up and stays above 10V so its not that.) So now I have to diagnose that -- And the solution may be to get another EFI kit. Not sure. I will take a look at it tomorrow. Maybe the carbs got plugged up from sitting so long.

[drphils87]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I may get an ulcer riding that slow

There is a guy I used to work with who drives a jeep full throttle all the time. I called him big bill. He said something about same as you did.

[choneofakind]

Straight line speed makes no sense to me. I'm out for a ride to enjoy the ride/commute and relax. Going faster and racing through traffic just raises everyone's blood pressure and puts me at more risk of injury. But I don't 'poke around'

Anyhow, good luck with the carbs, at least you've worked on your bike enough that we don't have to give you instructions on how to clean carbs

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Straight line speed makes no sense to me. I'm out for a ride to enjoy the ride/commute and relax. Going faster and racing through traffic just raises everyone's blood pressure and puts me at more risk of injury. But I don't 'poke around'

Anyhow, good luck with the carbs, at least you've worked on your bike enough that we don't have to give you instructions on how to clean carbs

I live in Florida. They don't have anything BUT straight lines here. \

But just saying, the road ragers out here are out looking for a fight so if you let them catch you, things could be bad. That's pretty much the only time I have ever had an altercation with traffic and it was with my friend who kept me at the speed limit.

Anyhow, my baby is pretty sick. I have been working on him off and on today. Can't really get out anyway because of Andrea and a couple of little tornadoes this morning. But the bike was running fine, now all of a sudden there is no spark on either cylinder. I swapped the ECU with the one off the EFI bike and it still didn't hit. I'm wondering if there is hidden damage from the accident that has finally come in to view. Even still, at least one cylinder should be firing, but its not. So I need to investigate further.

[n4mwd]

I just got back from the gas station. It was 50 mpg this time and it wasn't sitting all that much either.

I'm going to ask Matt if its the special map he gave me doing something.

[Red250R]

@n4mwd a bluetooth converter!? Hell yeah. How much and where can i get my hands on that lol much easier to tune if i can use my iphone.