Ecotrons Install Thread

[Red250R]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Is there any way you can get your hands on a fuel pressure test gauge. A low pressure with lots of flow could also mean the regulator is not working right. Did you install the test port per the video?

yeah i did put one in thankfully lol funny story behind the intent to purchase one today. I get to autozone today after work. Went to get DOT 4 brake fluid and the pressure gauge. I picked up the bottle of brake fluid and meandered down one of the aisles. No biggie. A guy i graduated with walked in and we got into talking. He just bought a used 2012 honda cbr250r a few months ago. Leo Vince full exhaust on it. Sounds like total sh*t too btw. Like a leaf blower on steroids. Anyways, he was installing new LED front blinkers. Needed some butt splices or something. After talking he said he needed some help. Told him to just follow me back to my house and I'd give him a hand. Ended up leaving the store with just the brake fluid and completely forgot about the pressure gauge lol i was like crap! Didn't remember it till i got home either.

[setasai]

Originally Posted by Red250R

As for the filter, when i shut the bike off, the filter filled itself up. No problems there. Which also means it starts with a full filter too. The problem lies within the feed of fuel TO the pump. It's like it can't keep up with the amount of fuel the pump needs to supply the injectors. Especially when i open throttle past 3k-4k rpms. I don't know if thats a gravity problem like i don't have it on enough of a downhill slant to feed it. But that shouldn't be the issue because it still can only feed as much as gravity will pull down. So if the pump is pushing more than it can be fed, then there lies the issue. Its almost as if the tank needs a vacuum seal to it. Like before right? Then it would feed much better right?

Funny you should say that, I'm having a similar issue after winterizing the bike for a year. Just got it started. It starts and it also revs w/out load but I see exactly the same issue. Once I start the bike up, the filter empties half-way and I can see gas drizzling down the edge of the filter. I think there might be air still in the line or something is preventing it from flowing well enough. I was considering trying a new fuel filter.

If there is no air between the tank petcock to the pump, there should be no way the filter should empty. If the pump pushes more, there should be more negative pressure sucking more fuel. Where did the air come from? In the gas tank, the petcock port should be far below the gas level.

Maybe add a priming port to forcefully fill the entire line w/ fuel in both directions?

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Red250R

He just bought a used 2012 honda cbr250r a few months ago. Leo Vince full exhaust on it. Sounds like total sh*t too btw. Like a leaf blower on steroids.

Steroids? I don't think so. Maybe a couple of vitamins.

[choneofakind]

oh pssh.

Y'all need to stop hating and take one for a spin through some back roads. They can't be as bad as you think. In fact, I've read that they're very nice handling bikes.

But really, if you haven't ridden one with an open mind, stop hating. It's annoying.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

But really, if you haven't ridden one with an open mind, stop hating. It's annoying.

I've ridden with one. A friend of mine has one. He loves it. But for some reason he wont ride more than 10 miles from the house or on the interstate.

[Red250R]

I did ride It up and down the street. I didn't say it handled badly because it handled halfway decent. The kickstand is in a crappy spot tho lol minor issue I know. His shifter stuck a little bit too and wouldn't drop into first unless I REALLY hit it. @choneofakind I was only saying that the Leo Vince full system on that bike sounded like crap. Now I don't know how it sounds on our bike but it's a real raspy sound that also sounds like it's constantly backfiring.

Anyways, @setasai, today, if I can remember, I'll stop and pick up a fuel pressure gauge to see if I even have the correct pressure. Explain more about a priming port. Shouldn't the lines already be forcefully filled because of gravity?

[n4mwd]

Is the Leo Vince system the same as those noisers some guys put on civics to make them louder? I always love passing those guys.

[setasai]

Originally Posted by Red250R

Anyways, @setasai, today, if I can remember, I'll stop and pick up a fuel pressure gauge to see if I even have the correct pressure. Explain more about a priming port. Shouldn't the lines already be forcefully filled because of gravity?

It should be forcefully filled but any where there is tubing slightly higher than the rest will have trapped some air. It's just a theory because I cant imagine air filling up our fuel filter if the entire line is primed and the source is the bottom of the tank.

It's like draining a fish tank, if the whole line is filled w/ water, then no matter how fast the water flows through the tube, there's no air going to be sucked in.

Priming port... no idea. It was just a late night ramble while jetlagged. I guess the idea is to forcefully w/ high pressure, force the air to be replaced with gas. No idea how to put it together though.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by Red250R

I did ride It up and down the street. I didn't say it handled badly because it handled halfway decent. The kickstand is in a crappy spot tho lol minor issue I know. His shifter stuck a little bit too and wouldn't drop into first unless I REALLY hit it. @choneofakind I was only saying that the Leo Vince full system on that bike sounded like crap. Now I don't know how it sounds on our bike but it's a real raspy sound that also sounds like it's constantly backfiring.

Anyways, @setasai, today, if I can remember, I'll stop and pick up a fuel pressure gauge to see if I even have the correct pressure. Explain more about a priming port. Shouldn't the lines already be forcefully filled because of gravity?

a priming port bleeds air out of a system if there's a high point.

i don't have one on my bike, my pump has the bubbler line, and the lines are vertical coming out of the tank and filter.

[n4mwd]

I believe the bent tube is the return line on the fuel tap.

Since he installed a pressure test port per the video, he can use that for priming as well.

[Red250R]

well my fuel pressure is reading 22 psi. Definitely an issue I'd say.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Red250R

well my fuel pressure is reading 22 psi. Definitely an issue I'd say.

It could be either the regulator or the pump. Try pinching the return line just before it goes back in the tank. I'd use pliers with something to protect the rubber from damage. Turn the ignition on - no need to start it - and see what the pressure goes up to.

If it goes above 22 psi then the problem is the regulator. If it stays at 22 psi, then its the pump. If it goes above 45 psi you need to release the pliers immediately to prevent damage.

EDIT: If you have the quick disconnects you can just unplug the return line and do the test without having to use pliers to pinch the hose. The disconnects cut the flow off in both directions. Just be prepared to cut the switch off immediately if the pressure gets too high.

[Red250R]

alright i'll go out and try that. Just got in. Switched out my stock brake lines for red SS ones. Also put some DOT 4 Valvoline fluid in.

[Red250R]

Whoa definitely the regulator. Turned the key and the pressure hit 60 psi before i stopped it by turning the key off. I kept my hand on the key after i turned it on luckily or else it would of kept climbing. Didn't know if it mattered but i hit the release button on the pressure tester asap.

Also, on another note, my fuel filter is staying filled now. I think its cuz i hit the release button for a bit earlier when i was playing around with it. Which is okay with me lol basically it acted as a primer right?

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Red250R

Whoa definitely the regulator.

Stupid question: Are you sure the regulator is connected the right way? Its supposed to go in on the side and come out the top.

If its correct, then its time to let Matt know about it so he can send you a replacement. It may just be the o-rings inside got blown. I think Lolibater had a similar problem.

[Red250R]

lol I'll run back outside and check but i'm 99.9% sure that i have it right because i basically followed your video as i pieced it together first.

[Red250R]

Yeah its on correctly lol figured as much. I'll email Matt right now so it gets shipped out asap. Thanks for the help @n4mwd

[n4mwd]

Its probably just a bad regulator.

[n4mwd]

Do you have access to a bathroom sink drain tailpiece? Sounds odd, but its what you need to release the hooks and disassemble the regulator without damage. You can see the condition of the o-rings.

[Red250R]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Do you have access to a bathroom sink drain tailpiece? Sounds odd, but its what you need to release the hooks and disassemble the regulator without damage. You can see the condition of the o-rings.

I'm pretty sure I don't have one of those lying around lol out of curiosity, how did you find out that using a drain tailpiece works to disassemble the regulator?

[Red250R]

But i'll pull the regulator off tomorrow or something nonetheless. If i disconnect the regulator from the piece that connects to the fuel rail, will fuel just start leaking out? Or for some reason whatsoever will it just...not? lol

[lgk]

Unless you have disconnects installed, the fuel tap will empty the tank in minutes, lol

[Red250R]

That's what I thought lol I was just hoping to hear otherwise. I only could fit a disconnect in the return line. No biggie. I've had to empty my tank twice now because of this install lol I have it down to a science.

[Red250R]

And damnit lol my tank is like 2/3 full. Just remembered cuz after I knew for sure it wasn't leaking and took it for a ride, I filled her up

[n4mwd]

You'll need to separate the disconnects or else gas will run out. It will still run out a little even if the tank is disconnected. And its going to be a lot easier if you remove the throttle body assembly and work on it on the bench.

The sink tailpiece was the result of exhaustive searching for something that would release it properly. Its exactly the right diameter and thickness to go in and release the clamps.

I'm planning on my next install to machine a new fuel rail with the regulator built in. That, and the new fuel pump, should make the install even easier.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Red250R

I only could fit a disconnect in the return line.

Using only one kind of defeats the purpose.

[Red250R]

Yeah I know it defeats the purpose lol I figured in the future if I can change things up a little bit and make more room I could add in the other disconnect.

But why would I have to remove the entire throttle body to get to the regulator?

[setasai]

Sweet. Looks like you figured it out. Nicely done!

I took mine out for a ride today as well and saw that the fuel filter is much more filled today. Just a little bit of air left when running. But it looks like it's keeping up just fine.

If you dont have a disconnect or regulator... cant you just pinch off the hose? I do that all the time w/ a pair of vice grips.

[Red250R]

@setasai YES! good idea Brian lol didn't even think of that even tho D just said that. Even if i pinch it high enough and then put a plug in the hose so its not clamped on the hose for an elongated period of time would work. Tomorrow theres a 30% chance of rain so I'll play it by ear. Matt already emailed me back saying he'll send me a new one and if it fixes the problem to send him back the old/broken one, but if it ends up not being the regulator, i have to send him back the new one obviously.

[n4mwd]

If you installed the regulator on top of the throttle body like in the video, the bad thing is that its kind of hard to get to when its still on the bike. At least it is for the pregen.

[Red250R]

After you take the tank off, its wide open to the top of the whole assembly. Especially after removal of the kleen air system. From what i remember lol we'll see. But i ran out of time to do it today. Maybe tomorrow.

[n4mwd]

I didn't think of that. Well, I guess there is no hurry since you can't really do anything until the replacement arrives.

[Red250R]

Right. I'm working on my headlight retrofit right now. Just pulled the lens off and cleaning off the glue. I still have to order the insides tho so all i can really do as far as this goes is to clean it and paint the reflectors.

[setasai]

So I took it out for a longer test ride and noticed a couple things.

My setup:
2009 w/ pod filter and stock exhaust using the O2 sensors in eco mode.

I felt that the top end was pretty weak. To go from 70mph to 80mph in 6th at WOT felt weaker than before. Also, blipping felt laggy and unresponsive.

Think it's a map issue or firmware issue? Or maybe the pod filters?

Otherwise it felt pretty good. Pulled great in the low to mid range... low was a little weak though.

[choneofakind]

Well, update from me. My setup works damn well. Just got back from the track, and all I can say is that I'm happy.

I ran my 12.5 AFR map, and loved it. Bike was very responsive, started well, and it PULLED. I got all the way up to an indicated 112 on the back straight.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I've ridden with one. A friend of mine has one. He loves it. But for some reason he wont ride more than 10 miles from the house or on the interstate.

soooooo you've never ridden one, yet you hate on them? That makes about as much sense as you hating Diablo Scooter tires (which I just dragged knee with...)

[setasai]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Well, update from me. My setup works damn well. Just got back from the track, and all I can say is that I'm happy.

I ran my 12.5 AFR map, and loved it. Bike was very responsive, started well, and it PULLED. I got all the way up to an indicated 112 on the back straight.

Sweet. You think your map would work on a newgen?

I decided to put the airbox back on. It's way too noisey without it and it sounds kinda lame and poppy. I've still gotta figure out where to put the pump and route all the tubing but otherwise it's done. Did you also put the snorkel back on as well?

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

soooooo you've never ridden one, yet you hate on them? That makes about as much sense as you hating Diablo Scooter tires (which I just dragged knee with...)

You mean the same Diablo Scooter tires that are on both of my bikes right now that gave out in a turn which caused me to go down at 45 mph and get messed up (which I am still not fully healed from). I'm thinking, NO, I don't trust them any more.

As far as the Honda, its more flashy than muscle. Its got a good price and decent looks, but it doesn't perform as good as the Ninja according to the reviews. There is a way to tune the EFI and get better performance I hear. But even still, did many of them pass you at 110 mph on the track? SO have YOU ridden one? Ready to trade in your Ninja?

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by setasai

Sweet. You think your map would work on a newgen?

I decided to put the airbox back on. It's way too noisey without it and it sounds kinda lame and poppy. I've still gotta figure out where to put the pump and route all the tubing but otherwise it's done. Did you also put the snorkel back on as well?

Brian, I've got the pregen equivalent of removing the snorkel and a full exhaust. As long as you have time in ECO mode to learn what your specific engine needs, you'll be able to give my maps a try. I've got it running 12.5 AFR in the top end, 14.4 at cruise, and varying AFR's in between. Works very well for me.

also a note for you, I was able to pull the whole way through the top of 5th, but 6th was only able to maintain speed. It must be my 15/45 gearing and the speed vs rpm with the powerband, etc etc. but I definitely pulled all the way through the top of 5th.

Originally Posted by n4mwd

...

D, This is off topic. PM'd in order to keep on topic.

side note: have you gotten medical attention for that yet? It's been a long time since you went down. If you're still hurting, you probably could use some PT or something.

[Red250R]

I know how much people hate removing the airbox and how much it throws off the air ratio. How about just removing the snorkel? Does that cause headache or does it work comfortably with the EFI?