another touchy subject (pot)

[BlueRaven]

I say "Legalize" it already. If i ever have to get chemotherapy i will have to break the law in order to get access to it. Even though you can get it for medicinal purposes a person will have to jump through hoops to get some. Personally i have never touched any illegal substances.

The only reason in my opinion and i may be alone in this is that alot of ppl believe that mj is a gateway drug only because it is illegal. If it would a legal drug like alcohol many wouldn't even think twice about trying harder drugs.

[DRivero]

Originally Posted by BlueRaven

The only reason in my opinion and i may be alone in this is that alot of ppl believe that mj is a gateway drug only because it is illegal. If it would a legal drug like alcohol many wouldn't even think twice about trying harder drugs.

Blue, you hit the nail on the head, I think. How do you get pot? Why, you go to a dealer, that's how. Some people that sell weed sell ONLY weed, but most at least dabble in other, more hardcore stuff, and don't give a crap who they sell to. Because weed is illegal, unfortunately, you have to deal with drug dealers to get it. "Hey kid, you like the pot I sell you? Here, try a couple Oxycontins for free....you'll love 'em!" Believe me, that happens. And bam, that's all she wrote.
Gee, if we could get pot from authorized pot-only merchants, MAYBE some of those "gateway" opportunities would dry up!
Posted via Mobile Device

[Flow]

Originally Posted by DRivero

Gee, if we could get pot from authorized pot-only merchants, MAYBE some of those "gateway" opportunities would dry up!

If you have your own place, there's no reason you should be doing any business with shady characters.

[Ceir]

Just thought I'd point out that the drug factor is not the only reason the government hasn't legalized mj. Major industries in the U.S. give lots of money to the government to stop hemp from being legalized to harvest in the U.S. Hemp and mj are not the same thing, but are from the same plant family, and legalizing the growth of mj would eliminate the excuses used to make growing hemp illegal. The industrial aspects of hemp are virtually endless, and major industries are scared of the impact it would have on there bottom line, so they lobby to keep it illegal. Hemp can be used to make fuel, fabric, paper and even furniture. Yes the government could legalize the growth of hemp and not the growth of mj, but why bother when when most of the public doesn't realize there is a difference and someone is willing to pay you to keep it that way.

As for my personal belief...I have no problem with mj being legal. If the government can legalize perscription drugs for depression medicine that have side effects that cause severe depression and thoughts of suicide how is something that makes you feel euphoric still illegal :P

[Blackwidow]

Originally Posted by Ceir

Just thought I'd point out that the drug factor is not the only reason the government hasn't legalized mj. Major industries in the U.S. give lots of money to the government to stop hemp from being legalized to harvest in the U.S. Hemp and mj are not the same thing, but are from the same plant family, and legalizing the growth of mj would eliminate the excuses used to make growing hemp illegal. The industrial aspects of hemp are virtually endless, and major industries are scared of the impact it would have on there bottom line, so they lobby to keep it illegal. Hemp can be used to make fuel, fabric, paper and even furniture. Yes the government could legalize the growth of hemp and not the growth of mj, but why bother when when most of the public doesn't realize there is a difference and someone is willing to pay you to keep it that way.

As for my personal belief...I have no problem with mj being legal. If the government can legalize perscription drugs for depression medicine that have side effects that cause severe depression and thoughts of suicide how is something that makes you feel euphoric still illegal :P

Very good point! Thanks for sharing, and welcome to ninjette.org!

[wvninja]

Originally Posted by Ceir

Just thought I'd point out that the drug factor is not the only reason the government hasn't legalized mj. Major industries in the U.S. give lots of money to the government to stop hemp from being legalized to harvest in the U.S. Hemp and mj are not the same thing, but are from the same plant family, and legalizing the growth of mj would eliminate the excuses used to make growing hemp illegal. The industrial aspects of hemp are virtually endless, and major industries are scared of the impact it would have on there bottom line, so they lobby to keep it illegal. Hemp can be used to make fuel, fabric, paper and even furniture. Yes the government could legalize the growth of hemp and not the growth of mj, but why bother when when most of the public doesn't realize there is a difference and someone is willing to pay you to keep it that way.

As for my personal belief...I have no problem with mj being legal. If the government can legalize perscription drugs for depression medicine that have side effects that cause severe depression and thoughts of suicide how is something that makes you feel euphoric still illegal :P

double negative? prescription drugs for depression don't make you feel depressed? Its when you are on depression drugs and they stop working that you become depressed / suicidal.

Everyone seemed to skip over the fact that if you do legalize it, you will have a lot more people doing it. The number of people doing it compounded by the number of people doing it more often, in more quantities, and doing it in more normal day situations (out on lunch break or at the office) will have a negative effect on society. In my mind there is no way to argue that it wont impact us in a negative way. While it may solve one problem (drug dealers, some crime, jails) it will in turn create problems on its own.

[drowe531]

Originally Posted by wvninja

double negative? prescription drugs for depression don't make you feel depressed? Its when you are on depression drugs and they stop working that you become depressed / suicidal.

Everyone seemed to skip over the fact that if you do legalize it, you will have a lot more people doing it. The number of people doing it compounded by the number of people doing it more often, in more quantities, and doing it in more normal day situations (out on lunch break or at the office) will have a negative effect on society. In my mind there is no way to argue that it wont impact us in a negative way. While it may solve one problem (drug dealers, some crime, jails) it will in turn create problems on its own.

Thats not necessarily true, alcohol is legal, does everyone go out at lunch and have a few drinks every day? Companies can still fire you for being high at your job whether it is legal or not. There are stories that people have been fired for using marijuana even though they had a medical perscription for it.

[wvninja]

Originally Posted by drowe531

Thats not necessarily true, alcohol is legal, does everyone go out at lunch and have a few drinks every day? Companies can still fire you for being high at your job whether it is legal or not. There are stories that people have been fired for using marijuana even though they had a medical perscription for it.

No not everyone does, but if it were illegal would the number of people who do that sort of thing go down? Of course it would.

and by illegal i mean illegal to consume alcohol in any way shape or form.


on a side note if it is legalized i feel it should carry the same stiff penalties that alcohol consumption do. That you can be refused at the door by places if you are deemed "to high" and that if you get pulled over you would be considered Driving under the influence.

[backinthesaddleagain]

double negative? prescription drugs for depression don't make you feel depressed? Its when you are on depression drugs and they stop working that you become depressed / suicidal.

Nate,
Some odd effects like the one above are true. Anti seizure drugs that might cause seizures for instance. Odd I know but sometimes a certain chemical designed to do one thing does the opposite in some small % of people. I'm no med pro, maybe one of the nurses on the forum can elaborate.

[Blackwidow]

really Nate? you think that if you make it legal more people would do it? when someone tells you don't look in the box and is adement about it...won't you get curious and want to look in the box more? (not attacking you, just asking). I think when things are illegal, the mind goes 1000 miles per hour wondering WHY is it illegal. Again, the ones that will smoke will smoke regardless if its legal or not, the ones that won't...won't. Legalities have nothing to do with it.

[drowe531]

Originally Posted by wvninja

on a side note if it is legalized i feel it should carry the same stiff penalties that alcohol consumption do. That you can be refused at the door by places if you are deemed "to high" and that if you get pulled over you would be considered Driving under the influence.

It was illegal at one point and that led to MASSIVE growth in crime syndacates (sp) during that time period and they still have footholds because of that.

[wvninja]

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

double negative? prescription drugs for depression don't make you feel depressed? Its when you are on depression drugs and they stop working that you become depressed / suicidal.

Nate,
Some odd effects like the one above are true. Anti seizure drugs that might cause seizures for instance. Odd I know but sometimes a certain chemical designed to do one thing does the opposite in some small % of people. I'm no med pro, maybe one of the nurses on the forum can elaborate.

Yes they can but these signs should show almost immediately not over a long period of time. This would be a sign that if you are taking a drug it is not working correctly and you should be switched. If they do show at a period of time it is most likely because the drug has quit working for that person. Its not the fact that the drug is causing the problem as much as your body rejecting the drug.

[wvninja]

Originally Posted by drowe531

It was illegal at one point and that led to MASSIVE growth in crime syndacates (sp) during that time period and they still have footholds because of that.

... kinda like the massive growth in drug syndicates? problem is most drug syndicates do not just deal in one substance. Also consider the idea that this will in turn lead to a massive drop in revenue for them.

[wvninja]

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

really Nate? you think that if you make it legal more people would do it? when someone tells you don't look in the box and is adement about it...won't you get curious and want to look in the box more? (not attacking you, just asking). I think when things are illegal, the mind goes 1000 miles per hour wondering WHY is it illegal. Again, the ones that will smoke will smoke regardless if its legal or not, the ones that won't...won't. Legalities have nothing to do with it.

Actually no I'm not the curious type. I could care less if its legalized or not. I for one like to argue and secondly I think people tend to jump on a wagon before considering where its headed. People should really think more on their choices before they say .. well yeah sounds good to me.

[drowe531]

Originally Posted by wvninja

... kinda like the massive growth in drug syndicates? problem is most drug syndicates do not just deal in one substance. Also consider the idea that this will in turn lead to a massive drop in revenue for them.

Now maybe I'm reading this wrong, but the drug syndicates grew because it is illegal. Your argument now sounds like for legalizing as it takes away an option from dealer.

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by wvninja

Actually no I'm not the curious type. I could care less if its legalized or not. I for one like to argue and secondly I think people tend to jump on a wagon before considering where its headed. People should really think more on their choices before they say .. well yeah sounds good to me.

I'll argue that the people that do this sorta thing are already on the wagon and half-naked.

Like I said before, weed is pretty damn common place in a lot of cities. Odds are good that if someone's curious about it, they either have tried it already, or are already buying it at regular intervals.

[wvninja]

Originally Posted by drowe531

Now maybe I'm reading this wrong, but the drug syndicates grew because it is illegal. Your argument now sounds like for legalizing as it takes away an option from dealer.

What I'm stating is that if you do take away this source of revenue there will be major backlash from these people.

Yeah I think people are going to do it either way. I don't judge my friends who do it anymore different than the ones who don't. I could really care less what they do as long as their choice do not effect me in a negative way.

[ninjabrewer]

IMOHO, I'm holding a wait and see on this one. Part of me says legalize it and tax it to add to the coffers of the states and fed gov't. Part of me says leave it as is. I know it is on the ballot in Ca for the upcoming election, so I would like to see how that comes out. For me, I don't use it. I tried it a few times in my teens but was never to crazy about it. Maybe I got some bad stuff, but every time that I used it, 'cept once, I didn't like how it made me feel. Also, for the 20 yrs I was in the Army, I was tested, and every job I have had since, I have either been tested to get hired or subject to unannounced whiz quiz as part of the conditions of employment. (I work on military aircraft) I do know A LOT of people who do partake and they don't seem any worse for the effort.

But I do believe in the medical aspects of it and that should be legal, across all 50 states.

nb

[Kitdog]

I say legalize it, its lame to spend time hunting the pot heads when there is crack and worse out there. That said many people say "pot is a gateway drug to harder things" my reasoning for this is that it's because its illegal and dealers are like any other business person and they diversify so when someone comes to buy some pot they are offered some coke or worse. Not because pot is the gateway drug, but because its illegal and dealers need to make money. If you could score a pack of joints at 7-11 you wouldn't have to go to the evil drug dealers, no gateway.

[welcome2thedawn]

it seems kinda silly to think that more people would go out and smoke pot, if only it were legal....i have known tons of people, from all walks of life, who smoke...if heroin were legal, do you think tons of people would now want to go out and give it a try? no...cause they don't want to be junkies...the point is, people who want to, will...

edit...and as far as being a gateway drug....really??? i think that the only reason it may seem that way, is because people who don't have a problem doing drugs, don't mind doing/trying other things...if you have kind of mindset that you want to take care of your body, and inhaling smoke of any kind doesn't really fit into that lifestyle, then you don't want to smoke, drink, etc...and with weed being "socially acceptable", more people admit to doing it...i think most people would be pretty surprised at the amount of people who do harder drugs, they just don't whip it out at a party like the people passing around the pipe.....also figured i'd throw it out there that i do not smoke...i don't care for it at all...it makes me feel sick, and dizzy, and i don't know how people can want to do it....but why should i care what other people do...i guess that's just my mindset, and i will never be able to understand the people who get so upset about things that other people do, that have no affect on them

[Flow]

Originally Posted by welcome2thedawn

if heroin were legal, do you think tons of people would now want to go out and give it a try? no...cause they don't want to be junkies...the point is, people who want to, will...

Depends on if education comes with legality. Heroin, like many "bad" drugs, has a few perfectly good medical uses. If it ever became legal, I'd want to keep a couple doses of heroin or morphine in the house at all times in case I get severely injured (happens more often than expected).

Circumstance: you break your pinky doing housework. You have ibuprofen and morphine. You're damn sure not reaching for the NSAID.

EDIT: For those who don't make the connection, heroin is simply potentiated morphine (around 3x the strength).

[welcome2thedawn]

yup...the biggest difference between heroin and the pain pills that you get legally prescribed from a doctor, is not knowing what other crap the dope has in it...it all starts from a poppy plant

[Flow]

Originally Posted by welcome2thedawn

also figured i'd throw it out there that i do not smoke...i don't care for it at all...it makes me feel sick, and dizzy, and i don't know how people can want to do it....

I must have missed this. This happens to new smokers a lot. For reasons still debated, the first couple of times often have little in the way of effects. Your body likely never adapted to THC, so the dizziness/sickness was just from the smoke.

[Cedilla]

I smoke on occasion(That meaning 2 or 3 times a year at most.) I fully support legalization, I don't have any problem with marijuana. I know lots of people that smoke and I have plenty of opportunities to smoke, but I do not. I do however like to sit in the room with people smoking because I love the smell of pot smoke. I don't think that legalization is going to lead to everyone becoming lazy pot heads. It probably will lead to increased usage at first because of the novelty of it, but will then level off to about where it is now.

I personally feel that anything that does not harm anyone else should be legal in the US, after all we are supposed to have "freedom" here.

[mrlmd]

FWIW - this just posted today. Not a gateway drug.

http://health.msn.com/health-topics/...3015&GT1=31036

[peachdiddy]

It is delicious , no doubt! I used to do it here and there, but I don't (can't) anymore due to random testing at one of my jobs. I know people who make their life revolve around it, and it has in fact ruined their lives, because they let it happen.

I don't think it should stay illegal just because of that, though. In all reality that means they should make chocolate silk pie illegal, because it makes people fat and diabetic. Lol. I'm a bigger dude, so fat jokes are excused.

But if they legalized it, they could tax it, and make money off of it. When I look at it that way it's win/win. But that'll start a whole new argument.

[Lurkable]

It will be interesting to see how Californians vote in November. It is true that passing this proposition would reduce the population in a prison system busting at it's seams, although it would only be making a small dent there. And it's true that it could save the state $200 million in other costs related to the prosecution of offenders, however this would also be only a small dent in the massive state budget deficit.

I think the question is a broader one of whether Californians view it as socially acceptable and whether there is a perceived economic benefit to establishing a legal market.

[Blackwidow]

i think this thread needs a poll. Alex, can you hook that up? Maybe one that says, yes legalize it and another that says no, don't legalize it. i'm very curious to know what the outcome would be.

[almost40]

I dont care either way, legal or illegal. My question is......Will there be a piss test at every trackday?? Would you go track riding with 30+ stoners?? How about 30 alcoholics??? 30 crackheads?? 30 methheads?? 30 heroin addicts?? I just cant see that as being as safe as 30 sober riders. I can hear it now.....Sorry dude, I was SO stoned that I target fixated on the pretty sparks that were coming off your muffler as your bike was sliding acrost the track that I ran over you. Can I buy you a bag of weed to make up for your broken ribs and massive internal bleeding that was caused by my intoxication?? If you just smoke this joint you will feel all better cause its medical marijuana.....see.
Im just sayin...

[almost40]

Originally Posted by Lurkable

It will be interesting to see how Californian's vote in November. It is true that passing this proposition would reduce the population in a prison system busting at it's seams, although it would only be making a small dent there. And it's true that it could save the state $200 million in other costs related to the prosecution of offenders, however this would also be only a small dent in the massive state budget deficit.

I think the question is a broader one of whether Californians view it as socially acceptable and whether there is a perceived economic benefit to establishing a legal market.

The voters can vote all they want, lol do you think it will matter?? All that is needed to overturn the prop is a judge. Its happened recently. (gay marriage ban) So vote away, lol. Your liberal masters there in Cali will REALLY decide for you anyway.
I know how it works lol. Im in Illinois where the north of I-80 crowd dictates to the whole state.

[Blackwidow]

Originally Posted by almost40

I dont care either way, legal or illegal. My question is......Will there be a piss test at every trackday?? Would you go track riding with 30+ stoners?? How about 30 alcoholics??? 30 crackheads?? 30 methheads?? 30 heroin addicts?? I just cant see that as being as safe as 30 sober riders. I can hear it now.....Sorry dude, I was SO stoned that I target fixated on the pretty sparks that were coming off your muffler as your bike was sliding acrost the track that I ran over you. Can I buy you a bag of weed to make up for your broken ribs and massive internal bleeding that was caused by my intoxication?? If you just smoke this joint you will feel all better cause its medical marijuana.....see.
Im just sayin...

of course not, just like alcohol, if you're drunk, you don't get behind a wheel of any kind...same laws would apply to marijuana.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

i think this thread needs a poll. Alex, can you hook that up? Maybe one that says, yes legalize it and another that says no, don't legalize it. i'm very curious to know what the outcome would be.

Done.

[Blackwidow]

you sir, are awesome!

[backinthesaddleagain]

Now if the results of this poll were published and picked up by some organization that wants it kept illegal they would say - ah bikers want the legalization of pot. Then if someone were buying pot, and a small plane fell out of the sky and crushed that buyer to death they would report it as a marijuana related death.

[Lurkable]

Originally Posted by almost40

The voters can vote all they want, lol do you think it will matter?? All that is needed to overturn the prop is a judge. Its happened recently. (gay marriage ban) So vote away, lol. Your liberal masters there in Cali will REALLY decide for you anyway.

Haha, hey don't hate on the courts they're there to protect our constitutional rights.

Also Prop 8 may have been overturned by a judge, but the ban has yet to be lifted.

[almost40]

Originally Posted by Lurkable

Haha, hey don't hate on the courts they're there to protect our constitutional rights.

Also Prop 8 may have been overturned by a judge, but the ban has yet to be lifted.

Is that what you call it?? protecting?? lol, I call it STOMPING ON our constitutional rights.

[Sailariel]

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

Debbie- thank you for sharing your story! I know it can be hard in a public forum where people jump at the chance of judging!

Debbi, You are a beautiful person--always remember that. You have been through a lot but you have also gained a great deal of wisdom from your experience. I just want to let you know that I respect you a great deal. There are few people out there that have that kind of insight.

[Sailariel]

Ceir made a very important point that was not really picked up on. There is Cannabis and Cannabis Sativa. Cannabis (Hemp) was used in making rope and canvass (bastardized Cannabis). The Declaration of Independence was made from paper derived from Cannabis--ditto The Constitution. The difference between Cannabis and Cannabis Sativa is that you can't get stoned on Cannabis (Industrial Hemp) So why don't we grow the stuff? It is a hardy plant, grows almost anywhere, does not deplete the soil like corn--CORN!!! Holy S***! There is the corn lobby to make Ethanol!! With Cannabis we can make Methanol---much more efficient, and it takes a lot less energy to produce. We could make high grade paper. What about the wood pulp lobby? How about clothes? Gadzooks! we will get the cotton lobby upset. And it goes on and on. We SHOULD allow industrial Cannabis to be grown. It would be a good thing for the country. I, personally, don't have a problem legalizing Cannabis Sativa. It has medical benifits as an anti nausea agent, helping releive glaucoma, and helping in the treatment of PTSD. It certainly has a lot less side effects than most prescription drugs. I guess that would piss off the major drug companies--Pfizer, in particular. It would do a number on its number one selling drug--Viagra. I guess there is a problem with our reasoning--We are assuming that the system is rational.

[Blackwidow]

Alex- Someone made a point earlier in this thread that a lot of industries that produce the product that make paper goods and clothing are fighing the cannabis growth because it can put them out of business.

Also, in respect to being able to tax on weed, if they legalize sure, they can tax the croop out of it, but the street slangers will continue selling weed for much less then the authorized stores...so rather then buying lets say, a lbs of weed for 100 bucks, you can get the lbs off the streets for 60 bucks. So i'm sure the government has thought of every avenue. Just some other things to think about....

[Flow]

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

the street slangers will continue selling weed for much less then the authorized stores...so rather then buying lets say, a lbs of weed for 100 bucks, you can get the lbs off the streets for 60 bucks.

That's a 40% decrease. In this area, a birdie told me an ounce of mids go for $100. A friend of mine who owns a dispensary in L.A. sells royalty for $45/oz.

Even at this price, it wouldn't be worth being a street dealer. Cut the price even more and it's pointless to even try.

Incidentally, where can you get a pound of grass for $100?