May 18th, 2010, 03:25 PM | #122 |
The Sportisi Master
Name: Matt
Location: Chico
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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yup
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Sportisimoto USA is born. |
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May 19th, 2010, 03:47 AM | #123 | |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: omri
Location: israel
Join Date: May 2010 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r Posts: 8
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Quote:
which modle is it, dose it fit nicly or you have to work a little for it.. I think I like that gauge more then the 500cc enegine |
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May 31st, 2010, 12:22 PM | #124 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jerry
Location: Ontario, Canada
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 09 EX250 LE Posts: 117
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I wonder what would be harder.... Getting the ex500 motor to fit in the 250r or getting the 250r bodywork to fit on the ex500.....
I mean if all we really want is to get the 250r's looks on the 500 then wouldn't making some custom fairings or brackets for the 500 be MUCH easier than trying to cram a 500cc engine into the 250rs frame? |
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May 31st, 2010, 12:58 PM | #125 | |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
Location: Newnan, GA
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
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May 31st, 2010, 01:57 PM | #126 |
self wrencher
Name: john
Location: houston
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 250r and 07 600r Posts: A lot.
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This happened in indochina but not in US?
Posted via Mobile Device |
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May 31st, 2010, 11:27 PM | #127 |
Over 40 Ninjette Owner
Name: John
Location: Lancaster, Pa
Join Date: May 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawasaki VN900C (Black)/2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R (Red) SOLD BOTH Posts: 77
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Been seeing this on the YouTube. That VR6 can sounds deep, burbly, and when you crack 'er open, downright MENACING.
It's like going to pet the tiny, adorable little fuzzy kitten and it opens up its mouth and roars with enough force to make people 3 zip codes away crap their pants...and leaving you nothing more than a pair of Lugz and a soiled pair of tighty whiteys... Didn't Kaw discontinue the 500? Hmmm...wonder if the economy has recovered enough that they're cooking up an...um..."Upgraded" 500 for 2011 or later... I've always wondered when a swap was going to be done. After all, you are limited by the Ninjette's limited cc count, and there's only so much you can do. A bigger engine just makes more sense, but there's lots of legwork to do. Thanx to ztrack157 and Sportisi, now we see that it is possible. Gonna follow this thread and see where it goes. Hmm, now I gotta get preliminary pricing on a 500 engine. Johnny PS: Saw this while searching for HP figures for the 500. Could this engine fit??? http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/mod...xr250%2093.htm
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So Long, and Thanks for All The Fish! Vulcan 900 Custom: Cafe windscreen, OEM backrest and Lockable side cases!!! Last futzed with by Johnnyscoots; May 31st, 2010 at 11:57 PM. Reason: Added link |
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June 1st, 2010, 03:05 AM | #128 | |
Newb..... on a steeek! :D
Name: Mike
Location: Windermere, FL
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2012 Harley Davidson XL883L Sportster Superlow Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Good idea, but it will never happen cause if you can get a hold of the engine you might as well just take the bike it came with cause honestly..... the ZX2R is built more for sport and racing then the ninjette. Better frame, better suspension, better brakes.... you get the idea. You'd be better off finding one of those bikes and just putting a better seat on it since I've heard that's the major weak point of the bike. But good luck finding one and having it imported into the US. |
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June 1st, 2010, 04:43 AM | #129 |
Wartown, USA
Name: Bryan
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Join Date: Nov 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R SE, 2007 Ninja 650R, and assorted other bikes Posts: A lot.
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Thats what I figured...it did require a spacer to spread the fairings apart enough for it to fit....
If you can create a belly pan that hides the gaps in the bottom of the fairing, it would be nice. That split at the bottom will give it away real quick. |
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June 1st, 2010, 05:02 AM | #130 |
Highway Ramp Hero
Name: Tom
Location: MI
Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): 09 250r Posts: 209
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If you import, might as well get the zxr400...
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Too many mods for a 200 character sig... |
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June 9th, 2010, 12:53 PM | #131 |
ninjette.org member
Name: brian
Location: San Diego
Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): 09 ninja250, 03 sv650 Posts: 47
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June 9th, 2010, 01:20 PM | #132 |
Darksider
Name: Britton
Location: Maryville, Tennessee
Join Date: May 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2003 SV650S; 1982 Suzuki TS125 Posts: 106
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Why not slap an old 428 cobra jet in that bad boy? It's carbed!!
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June 12th, 2010, 08:55 PM | #133 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Ghonnie
Location: Parkville
Join Date: Apr 2010 Motorcycle(s): 03 Ninja EX250 Posts: 3
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Is the kit available for purchase yet. I would love to do this swap.
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June 12th, 2010, 09:42 PM | #134 |
Ninjette Owner
Name: Rick
Location: Aiken County, SC
Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R SE, a puddle of Ninja ZX6 Posts: 520
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Very cool! And it sounds incredible!
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June 13th, 2010, 12:47 AM | #135 |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
Location: Newnan, GA
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.
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June 17th, 2010, 01:07 PM | #136 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Scott
Location: Indianapolis
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250 (Blue) Posts: 167
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Quote:
Source: http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...ion/index.html NASCAR is hardly what one would objectively call a modern race car anyway, so that doesn't even count. ztrack, I love your posts, and wholeheartedly appreciate what you've done with this 500 swap. But please, spare us the "just something else to break" argument. By this point, it's kind of a proven technology. |
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June 17th, 2010, 04:01 PM | #137 |
The Sportisi Master
Name: Matt
Location: Chico
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Actually official in 2011 Nascar will also be EFI.
Ok you don't like my argument. How about this one then? Whatever, I do whatever I want, Whatever! Did it the way we wanted to. Did it fast and did it cheap. Then some sit in the gallery and point and say well you could have done this. Well we didn't but your certainly welcome to try. Does that work?
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Sportisimoto USA is born. |
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June 18th, 2010, 07:47 AM | #138 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Scott
Location: Indianapolis
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250 (Blue) Posts: 167
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Matt, I have nothing but respect for you pulling this off. I love it, I'm grateful that someone did it, and it's the thread I watch the most. See my other comments in this thread. I dig it. Nothing but props to you for the accomplishment, and I'm not saying at all that you should have gone EFI or anything like that. With the 500 engine, it wouldn't have made sense anyway.
You chose to do this, with your own initiative, and thus, you did whatever you wanted. We agree on this, Matt. I was only reacting to that one statement, in which you made it sound like FI was some unreliable bit of tech that was likely to break. If it came off like I was trying to tell you what to do, or that you should have gone EFI in your project, I apologize. That wasn't my intent in the slightest. Keep up the good work. I love seeing the capabilities of the 250 expanded. |
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June 18th, 2010, 10:50 AM | #139 |
ninjette.org member
Name: N/A
Location: N/A
Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): N/A Posts: 66
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June 18th, 2010, 07:48 PM | #140 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jon
Location: DF to the W
Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): Ninjette(sold), 2011 ZX-10r Posts: 66
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What instrument panel did you guys put in it? That looks awesome.
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June 18th, 2010, 07:52 PM | #141 |
The Sportisi Master
Name: Matt
Location: Chico
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Koso RX2-n
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Sportisimoto USA is born. |
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June 18th, 2010, 08:00 PM | #142 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Xtian
Location: Artesia, California
Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250r SE Posts: 98
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more power to you. keep up the good work! very brave and intuitive.
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June 25th, 2010, 04:54 AM | #143 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Ghonnie
Location: Parkville
Join Date: Apr 2010 Motorcycle(s): 03 Ninja EX250 Posts: 3
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June 25th, 2010, 05:43 AM | #144 |
ninjette.org member
Name: SaM
Location: Houston
Join Date: May 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 ninja 250r, 2009 650r Posts: 150
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Very happpy for you I want one ;p
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June 27th, 2010, 12:05 AM | #145 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Scotty
Location: Brantford,ONT,Canada
Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): CBR Fireblade, KTM 950SM, YZF750 (x2), R6, ZZR250, XR200, KTM 50SX Sr.Pro, Honda Spree Posts: 41
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Love this mod. When my wife wants to upgrade from her 250, I may re-visit this thread, and ask some detailed questions.
Between this motor and a set of COle's Ducati fairings, it'd be like a whole new bike! Good work!
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KTM 950 SM,YZF 750 Street, CBR929 EnduranceBike,YZF 750 vintage racer, R6 racebike , SOAR #22 |
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July 9th, 2010, 08:59 AM | #146 |
The Sportisi Master
Name: Matt
Location: Chico
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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how should I know
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Sportisimoto USA is born. |
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July 10th, 2010, 02:55 PM | #147 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Alex
Location: Belfast, ME
Join Date: Jul 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Honda NT-700-V, formerly, Green 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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Matt, Congratulations on a superb, well thought out, and well engineered project. You can really be proud of that accomplishment. Best Wishes, Alex
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July 12th, 2010, 11:38 AM | #148 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kyle
Location: Silver City
Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): Kawasaki Ninja 250r Posts: 79
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Yea this completely shattered my entire universe. I doubt I could find people to work with that would even THINK of tackling such a project. Really cool that it can be done. I bet there were alot of moments where you felt like pistol whipping a blind kid cause it was so frustrating.
If I could find a bad ass mechanic/welder and had the means to do this, I would do it in a heartbeat. But until that time...... |
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July 13th, 2010, 02:13 AM | #149 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Wayan
Location: Bali - Indonesia
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2014 Z250 Posts: A lot.
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i believe this is the same koso set that matt is able to get for you guys over there with the Voltmeter (like the one in the vid i think?). the newer sets come with a digital voltmeter, while the ones available earlier was still analog (or whatever its called, lol)
the install was straightforward and really easy. just plug in the main socket behind the Koso gauge, and then attach the corresponding plugs into the various feeds. the only fiddly part of the installation was getting the right number of spacers between the fiberglass bracket and sockets on our bikes. just requires long enough bolts, and enough spacers and that's all set. the only mistake i did during the installation was putting the magnets in the wrong way, lol... i looked in the instruction manual and couldn't see it mentioned anywhere, so i stuck the side with the N facing in... so i didn't get any speed reading, lol! i had to go to Patz's place and borrow one of his left over magnets to pull mine out setting it up is easy too, and the instruction manual made me laugh several times where the english had some really funny typos/mistakes. ive been wanting to get this since over 6 months now, and finally i went and got it! its a little pricey, but looks sweet! and has lots of settings that lets you play around with to keep you busy for a while. peace out, W.
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Kawasaki Z250, Bored up to 300cc with 12.8 CR, 41hp at wheel 27nm torque, Two bros full exhaust with DB killer Dynojet Power Commander V, KnN Open filter, intake and exhaust ported, Puig Windshield |
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July 13th, 2010, 08:47 AM | #150 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Marcos
Location: Rio de Janeiro
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R Posts: 19
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wayanlam,
How is your setting for the fuel gauge? You replaced the fuel sensor? |
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July 13th, 2010, 05:55 PM | #151 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Wayan
Location: Bali - Indonesia
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2014 Z250 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
no, the actual fuel gauge that's in the fuel tank stays the same. its all a plug and play setup. you just need to set in the olms on the Koso speedo, i think by default its set to 100Ω and apparently that's correct for the 250s. i think the main things i had to set up on the gauge is:
i remember the first time i saw people installing them here, and they were all confused for the speed reading cos they were getting really fast, or really slow readings... but rather than setting up the radius and sensor quantity, all they did was play with the number of magnets they put in the wheel! talk about "following instructions", lol apparently when you set it up correctly, the Koso Speed is very close to perfect (tested by racerX ), which is nice, since the stock kawasaki speed gauge is about 10% faster than your actually going. you can also check the top speed that you have driven, there are also various different timing programs, you can set it up for laps, or from 0 to xxx kmh/mi (so you can test out your 0-60 mi/h on any quiet road without additional equipment). and also time a certain distance traveled, like the time to do a quarter mile run, etc. all good fun to mess about with hehe... back to the custom 500 job, just watched the vid, the sound is insane! it sounded like a seriously pissed off Cougar! whoever is getting that bike is gonna have a sweet ride, although the neighbors might not agree if he likes riding it in the wee early hours of the morning! im curious how much it all added up! Matt did you send them that engine block? the kawasaki 500 isn't exactly a bike you can find easily around here, lol it was a bold step to do this to a bike, once they started there was no turning back after they whipped out the welding torch, lol definitely a crazy fine achievement for the Sportisi guys over there in Jkt!
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Kawasaki Z250, Bored up to 300cc with 12.8 CR, 41hp at wheel 27nm torque, Two bros full exhaust with DB killer Dynojet Power Commander V, KnN Open filter, intake and exhaust ported, Puig Windshield |
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December 23rd, 2010, 09:52 PM | #152 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Robert
Location: New Orleans
Join Date: May 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2000 Ninja 250 Posts: 8
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I know it's an old thread, but this is pertinent ... I am just finishing up pretty much the same swap but using an older 250 frame. I was deciding between a 650 & 500 when I found this thread (and a $300 parts bike) and figured what the heck. The actual path to the swap was pretty long. After getting the parts bike, I first swapped the gauge clusters because I liked the one from the 500 better. Then, because I liked certain aspects of the 500's swingarm over the 250's (namely the chain adjusters), I swapped those parts. That really wasn't a big deal except for machining down the width of the 500's swingarm. Ironically, Kawasaki must have agreed with me because the latest revision to the 250 go the swingarm off the 500.
Then, I finally moved on to the engine. Since the 250 was my almost daily driver, I didn't want to dismantle and cut up the engine mounts before I had as many of the mounting brackets for the 500 motor ready as possible. So in a weekend I pulled my motor and slid the 500 into place. Since the 500's upper mounts are wider than the 250's, I cut slots in the engine's mounts so I could get the engine into place (big mistake). I managed to use the stock exhaust header and mufflers. Doing so required moving the mounting tabs on the mufflers and spacing the sidestand about 5/8" off the frame. That might be a problem for a bike in better condition than mine, but I've taken off quite a few times with my sidestand down (never fallen because of it ... not even close), so it's a little warn (and yes, I disable all that safety crap). For the carbs to fit between the motor and frame, I shorted the stock mounts so that the carb mounted about .1" from engine. That was it for that moment, so I put the 250 engine back in while I made the parts for the swap. When winter finally came (we don't have much winter down in the South), I finally pulled the 250 for the last time. I cut the lower mounts off the frame and welded in new ones for the 500. Because of their odd placement, I had to do something really funky with that mount. From what I can tell in the other guy's pictures, I didn't tilt the engine as far forward as he did and ended up with the lower engine mount roughly in line with the lower frame (equivalent of a B pillar in a car), so a bolt could not be inserted from outside the frame. I also modified all the 500's engine mounts to be solid mounts since the 250's frame is designed for the engine to be a stressed member. The 500's urethane mounts probably would have been rigid enough, but I didn't want to impose the extra flex on the chassis. Moving to the upper engine mount, that slot I made caused the mount to crack when the bolt was tightened. I knew it would but decided to ignore the basic engineering calculations and give it a try anyway. I welded the cracked in the engine case and also welded up the two slots I had made, which in turn meant I had to move the upper mounts on the frame. No biggie ... a little grinding, a little welding. Because of where my carbs ended up landing, I had to use the fuel petcock off the 500 because the 250's wanted to live inside the carb. To put the 500's petcock on the 250's tank, I had to cut off the lever off the selector, but I can weld a little finger on for that later. The 500's main pickup is so much lower than the 250's that I wouldn't have much reserve anyway, and with a vacuum operated petcock there isn't much use of the "off" position. As for the electrical, it's almost not worth mentioning I used the 500's harness since I was using its gauge cluster. Though the plugs might not always be in the exact right position relative to the 250's, almost all of the connectors are identical to the 250s and the ones that aren't are easy to figure out. If I had used the 250's harness, I would have had to have run a wire for wire to the ignition box since there are a handful of extra wires there. Oh, and I forgot to mention that I snagged the coil-on-plug ignition from a 650r, so I don't have to worry about ignitions coils. The coil resistance is so close to that of the stock 250/500 that it's a drop-in replacement except for the connector, which has to be spliced. There are only two things that I don't like, the radiator filler and thermostat housing and my intake. Due to space constraints, I had to use the filler and thermostat housing off the 250. I liked the 500's more, but there just wasn't anyplace good to put it, not without spending money on tubing. (Oh, I forgot to mention that I had spent no money on this project other than the $300 I paid for the parts bike and $10 for the ignition coils. In all fairness I do have access to a fairly large bin of scrap steel.) On the intake side of things, the edge of the #1 carburetor sits inline with the frame rail. I molded a piece of PVC to go around it, but I really just don't like it, and the mounting is crap. This just means that sometime in the future I will probably modify the fuel injection off a 650 to fit this engine, but since that will require money, that's a very long way off. The engines' outputs are close enough that they'll probably run just fine. Nothing a microcontroller and some code can't fix. I know people love pictures. I'll have to get a camera from work because that's one piece of equipment I don't have. Well, technically, I have one, but it uses 2 AA batteries that are always dead because I've never replaced them. In the beginning of this thread, some people asked about a kit. One could be made, but it would still require cutting and welding to the 250's frame. And no, a subsequent heat treatment is not required. Is the material weaker than before? Probably. Does that matter? No. The load applied to that frame in normal use is inconsequential relative to its strength. It may develop fatigue cracks in the distant future. My frame had 2 cracks when I bought it. I never would have known had I not stripped it down to repaint it (it was a flood victim of Katrina). I welded them up and have had no problems since. Anyway, the rest of the kit would probably be a piggyback wiring harness to complement the stock 250's, front engine & radiator mounting brackets, carb boots, air filter arrangement, some hoses and whatnot for the radiator. That's about all I can think of at the moment. It could be done, but it would be exceptionally expensive as a low quantity production. |
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December 23rd, 2010, 11:11 PM | #153 | |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Rod
Location: L.A Clownty
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 05 Ninja 250R Posts: 3
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:scared:
Quote:
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December 24th, 2010, 12:14 AM | #154 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Darryl
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja ZX-6R Posts: 211
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December 24th, 2010, 12:27 AM | #155 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Albert
Location: Irvine, CA
Join Date: Jul 2010 Motorcycle(s): '09 Ninja 250R Posts: 18
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Holy !@#$.
What a beast. |
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December 24th, 2010, 07:34 AM | #156 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Robert
Location: New Orleans
Join Date: May 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2000 Ninja 250 Posts: 8
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There were paragraphs in there. You just have to stand on one leg with your right hand over your left eye and cluck like a chicken to see them.
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December 27th, 2010, 08:54 PM | #157 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Robert
Location: New Orleans
Join Date: May 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2000 Ninja 250 Posts: 8
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Hopefully the pictures are obvious. I just wanted to note for all those who think you can't put pod filters on a CV carbed engine without problems, it's not true unless you don't really know what you're doing (or you literally try to clamp a pod right to the mouth of the carb). True, the slight loss of vacuum from the airbox can cause a shift in your fuel curve, but unless your airbox is extremely restrictive, it would be only at the very top of the rev range. The most important thing is keeping the path of the air leading into the mouth of the carb as unchanged from stock as possible, which basically means either have a very long straight intake tube the actual length of which to allow for a fully developed flow wouldn't fit on the bike or utilizing the stock rubber convergent nozzles that came on the thing to begin with. If you're going for maximum power, you can rejet, but really the engine should run fine. Stock airboxes aren't that restrictive. For a filter, I'm using an older pair of underwear zip-tied over the mouth of my intake tubes, and my throttle response is incredible with no dips or sudden bursts of power anywhere in the rev range. This engine revs considerably faster than my 250 did. In all fairness, I did mildly port the head before installing the engine, but that really entailed only smoothing out some of the curves right behind the valve seats. For the exhaust, I did cut the mufflers open and remove some of the more restrictive baffling. I did maintain the basic 3-chamber design of the mufflers though.
When it boils down to it, the mod is mechanically simple. If you're willing to cut the rear engine mounts off your frame, you can mock the 500 engine up into place roughly on center with the frame, weld on new mounts, make a new front bracket, and really you're good to go. I would strongly recommend mocking up the WHOLE system though. I went as far the radiator but didn't mock up the thermostat and filler routing before welding everything up. I got it to fit, but it took a little more work that it may have otherwise. Also, because of the roundabout way in which I undertook the swap, the engine ended up 1/4" further to the left than I wanted, so I actually had to mold one of my PVC intake tubes to clear the frame. I spent less than $10 on this swap if you exclude the motor. I do have access to a machine shop and lots of free scrap metal, but the only scrap I used was for the front engine mount, which I could have made by welding and cutting on a saw rather than machining if I wasn't so lazy. |
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January 3rd, 2011, 03:07 PM | #158 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Haddie
Location: WPB Florida
Join Date: Dec 2009 Motorcycle(s): 08 ninja 250r Posts: 25
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Earlier in this post it was stated that 650r coil over plugs were used since the resistance is very close. I noticed that the factory 250 has these specs
Primary Winding Resistance 2.1 ∼ 2.5 Ω Secondary Winding Resistance 10 ∼ 16 kΩ the 650 has these specs Primary windings should be 1.1 to 1.5 ohms. Secondary windings should be 10.8 to 16.2 kilo-ohms. will the primary windings being halve of the original ninja 250 cause any problems, I was looking to swap so I can easier fir R&G crash sliders and remove my old coils. If so where can I look up coil over plugs and find one thats the same as the factory 250. |
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January 13th, 2011, 06:48 PM | #159 | |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Robert
Location: New Orleans
Join Date: May 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2000 Ninja 250 Posts: 8
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Quote:
To wire it, the best thing to do would be to splice the 650's wiring harness plugs into your bike's harness. I didn't have that option because I didn't have the 650's harness. Instead, I cut down the 500's spade connectors (the ones that go to its coils) and ran them directly to the connector pins on the 650's coils. I held them in place with a rather generous application of electrical tape. |
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January 14th, 2011, 07:11 AM | #160 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Haddie
Location: WPB Florida
Join Date: Dec 2009 Motorcycle(s): 08 ninja 250r Posts: 25
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Do the boots on the 650 COP's work out to the right length so they seal up when pushed all the way in so water cannot get in? Thanks for the replay on how they are working well so far also.
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