June 20th, 2009, 10:49 AM | #121 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Remy
Location: Moncton
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '04 sv650s Posts: 438
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Dont you need to push the forks up when you install clipons? Actually increasing the angle making it more prone to head-shake? I noticed that you said it started with a tire change but.. maybe to keep in mind that the clipons might contribute to the problem.
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June 20th, 2009, 10:56 AM | #122 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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wobble was there after the tire change and before the clipons... just got worse when the clipons were installed.
with the clipons installed, I've tried different amounts of fork sticking up above the clamps and the wobble is still there. I'm waiting for a used radial replacement to arrive in the mail so I can replace the tire (suspect a defective tire) and see if the change gets rid of the wobble. If not, I'll start looking at bearings as my next step. |
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June 20th, 2009, 12:07 PM | #123 |
ninjette.org Monkey Spank
Name: Kevin
Location: Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 250R Track-Bike Woodcraft clip-ons and rearsets FZ-6 track bike Posts: A lot.
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Just a thought but have you checked that your sprockets are proprely tourqued? Any mis-alignment issues going on there? If one of the spinning gyroscopes (wheels motor sprockets etc) is wobbleing then it stands to reason that the force would be transfered to all of them. Hope you get it sorted out. I was gona buy a set of clip-ons but now im a little gun shy. If the DYI master is having problems it makes me nervous. By the way I have no wobble issues any where at any time. Good luck Kelly and keep us posted
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Black 250R Full Area P QC Dyno Jet Kit 100 main 41T Rear Sprocket |
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June 20th, 2009, 12:12 PM | #124 |
Track Junkie
Name: Jon
Location: Dallas
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250r Track Bike, DR350 commuter, KDX220 woods bike Posts: 602
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fyi: i have the woodcraft clipons and have no wobble at all
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June 20th, 2009, 12:14 PM | #125 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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Kevin,
don't let my experience shy you away from the clipons. They are a great mod and others that have installed them are not having the issues I am. Besides, as posted, I was having this problem after I changed the tire and before I installed the clipons. The installation of the clipons just made the wobbling seem worse, most likely due to the lighter bars they provide. as for rear wheel/sprocket alignment, I already tried that in this thread... http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13833 thanks, though... have fun! |
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June 20th, 2009, 01:00 PM | #126 |
ninjette.org Monkey Spank
Name: Kevin
Location: Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 250R Track-Bike Woodcraft clip-ons and rearsets FZ-6 track bike Posts: A lot.
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Broom did you weight the ends? And another question if I may, do you run hotbodies plastic? Im turning my 250 into a track bike lol. Im planning on getting a set of clip-ons, rearsets, and new plastic. Anything else I missed? Im also curious about what brake pads you like. I know about the rear shock upgrade but Im gona wait on that a while. I might also swap the oil in the front forks but that will be later also. I ordered a set of michelin pilots but until I wear out the 501's Im gona rock those. Too bad no one here in the midwest runs E superstock.
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Black 250R Full Area P QC Dyno Jet Kit 100 main 41T Rear Sprocket |
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June 20th, 2009, 01:08 PM | #127 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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if you do rearsets and are using the bike for the track, take off the kickstand and grind down the kickstand mounting tab.
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June 20th, 2009, 09:01 PM | #128 |
ninjette.org Monkey Spank
Name: Kevin
Location: Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 250R Track-Bike Woodcraft clip-ons and rearsets FZ-6 track bike Posts: A lot.
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Kickstands already in the box with the rest of the assorted parts. Anything else I can pull to save weight?? I am trying to make an exhaust holder so I can ditch the rear pegs. Id like to pull the dash but I still need a tach and would like to add a temp gauge any Ideas there Kelly?? Sorry for the hi-jack.
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Black 250R Full Area P QC Dyno Jet Kit 100 main 41T Rear Sprocket |
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June 20th, 2009, 10:01 PM | #129 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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Kevin,
post up in the racing section asking how to save weight at the track. I'm sure you'll get some great suggestions. |
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June 22nd, 2009, 05:43 AM | #130 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Matthew
Location: Toronto
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2015 V-Star 950 Tourer (Deep Blue) Posts: 570
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happy to say i've never experienced this wobble on my 09
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June 22nd, 2009, 12:28 PM | #131 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Marc
Location: Montreal
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 09 250R, 08 connie 14, 08 honda ruckus(gave to mom) Posts: 92
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Mine wobbles, at the same 80k/h decel before and after clip-ons and rear wheel alignment. I'm at a loss to what it might be although I'm not too concerned about a sub 200 k/h bike and 50 mph wobble that only happens when "look ma...." still sucks though.
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June 22nd, 2009, 12:34 PM | #132 |
Ms. Personality
Name: CB
Location: Murvill, TN
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): Depends on the week you ask Posts: A lot.
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Mine is starting to wobble. 6600 miles. No adjustments. I should adjust the chain but I was kind of curious about the wobble so I haven't yet. My tire has about had it. Maybe that has something to do with it?
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June 22nd, 2009, 12:36 PM | #133 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Rick
Location: Alexandria, Louisiana
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Probably because you use every bit of your tire and not just the chicken stripe. I wish I could say the same about my tires. Keep leaning CB !!!
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June 22nd, 2009, 12:40 PM | #134 |
Ms. Personality
Name: CB
Location: Murvill, TN
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): Depends on the week you ask Posts: A lot.
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I do have a massive flat spot in the middle. That's why I need new ones.
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July 1st, 2009, 08:43 AM | #135 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Remy
Location: Moncton
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '04 sv650s Posts: 438
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Found more info
Hey KKIM. I was browsing bridgestone's website and found that PDF with tire information..and I think this relates to your problem
http://mc.bridgestone.co.jp/en/produ...e/on_bias.html Shimmy: Left and right vibration of the steering assembly while driving in a straight line. Low speed shimmy Occurs when coastin down from around 80 km/h, peaks around 45-50 km/h. (vibration frequency: 3-5 hz). High-speed shimmy Occurs at around 110-120 km/h, the magnitude is small (vibration frequency: 10-15 hz) Cause A phase difference between the corning(cornering?) force and the self aligning torque. (That goes over my head but you can research into it, lol). Tire related factors Wear stage, inflaction pressure (high inflation pressure is better as it reduces the contact area), tread gauge, tread compound characteristic, casing stiffness, cord angle, etc. IMO it looks like a tire related problem...
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July 1st, 2009, 09:49 AM | #136 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Greg
Location: Rhode Island
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2013 ZX6R 636 Posts: A lot.
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you mentioned the steering stem, is it at the proper torque? could the bearings be worn?
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July 1st, 2009, 10:44 AM | #137 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Marc
Location: Montreal
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 09 250R, 08 connie 14, 08 honda ruckus(gave to mom) Posts: 92
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I'm gonna mess with the tire pressure, i have the front @25 psi atm, I'll give 30/30 a go.....hope it's tire related
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July 1st, 2009, 10:56 AM | #138 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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Remy- Thanks for the link info. I do think it's tire related and I finally got a spare tire last week, so I'm going to change out the front tire and see if the problem disappears.
Greg- I did try tapping on the steering stem collar nuts with a hammer and a drift punch to snug them up, but they wouldn't budge, so I'm assuming they are tight at this point. I'll try changing the tire first and then work from there. thanks, guys. |
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July 1st, 2009, 12:34 PM | #139 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Greg
Location: Rhode Island
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i would think to if it was the steering stem loose or its bearings you could support the bike under the frame with front wheel off the ground and feel some play if someone held the bike and you pushed, pulled down low on the fork sliders.
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October 15th, 2009, 11:09 AM | #140 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Greg
Location: Rhode Island
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Kelly,
Did you ever figure out the problem? Mine seems to be shaking alot around 50mph with hands off the bars, mildly at 40 with hands off the bars. No mods here at all. Tire pressures 29F, 32R cold to the touch, very cold this week. Rear wheel aligned by the count the threads and measure the threads in mm (redundant I know). Steering stem at 32 ft lbs. Thinking rear tire as I now have 8,200 miles and center is looking a bit flat. |
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October 15th, 2009, 11:32 AM | #141 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Sean
Location: Mary Esther, FL
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 1998 HD Road King Posts: A lot.
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I also had a slight wobble. I have a throttle lock and when engaged and hands off the bars, I would get the bars shaking at almost any speed. I recently adjusted my chain and the wobble went away. Btw, when I adjusted the chain I measured from the center of the axel to the center of where the swing arm pivots. Had to remove the exhaust to do it but it worked great.
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October 15th, 2009, 12:01 PM | #142 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Greg
Location: Rhode Island
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2013 ZX6R 636 Posts: A lot.
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Thanks Bob, that was always my mx bike method. Easy to do as pipe is up high. Might have to try that next.
Glad you mentioned the throttle lock, that takes chopping the throttle out of the list of suspects. |
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October 15th, 2009, 12:04 PM | #143 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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never figured out the wobble source and the bike still does it. I will be changing tires in the next couple of weeks and we'll see if that cures the problem.
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October 15th, 2009, 12:17 PM | #144 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Greg
Location: Rhode Island
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2013 ZX6R 636 Posts: A lot.
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I think I will measure the center of the axle to the swingarm pivot, but out of laziness rather than pulling the exhaust maybe I will get one of those tailor tape measures and see if the 2 sides are unequal.
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October 15th, 2009, 12:24 PM | #145 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Sean
Location: Mary Esther, FL
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 1998 HD Road King Posts: A lot.
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October 15th, 2009, 12:44 PM | #146 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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October 15th, 2009, 01:20 PM | #147 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Sean
Location: Mary Esther, FL
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 1998 HD Road King Posts: A lot.
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October 15th, 2009, 01:31 PM | #148 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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October 15th, 2009, 06:01 PM | #149 |
"Is that the Ninjer 1000?
Name: Ken
Location: SoCal SGV
Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Quarter Liter Kawi Posts: 275
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Feel the tire tread block edges to see if its cupping. If so then its probably causing your wobbles. Mine cupped and that's what caused it, because when new tires were installed the wobbles went away.
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October 15th, 2009, 06:03 PM | #150 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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no cupping here.... front or rear. my tires look perfect. that's what is so puzzling about this.
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October 15th, 2009, 06:15 PM | #151 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Sean
Location: Mary Esther, FL
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 1998 HD Road King Posts: A lot.
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kelley, just paint the damn bike black and it will run like a champ. Sorry, can't help myself. Could it be a wheel out of balance or maybe a slight case a brake drag? Hope you are able to chase that ghost out of your bike soon.
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October 15th, 2009, 06:34 PM | #152 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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Sean,
Sorry.. painting the bike black so it's so slow that it doesn't wobble is not an option. I'm hoping the tire change will cure the problem as I noticed this right after switching over to the new set. It's a livable situation as long as I keep my hands on the bars, though I can feel the front end wobble while midcorner if I'm off the throttle, leaned over and happen to be decelerating through the wobble zone (40-50mph). It does eat at my confidence a bit at those inopportune times. |
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October 15th, 2009, 06:42 PM | #153 |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
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I didn't read everyone's posts but if this is a repost ignore it:
Have you balanced your wheels after your last change? If so then the forks are twisted or binding. |
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October 17th, 2009, 07:43 AM | #154 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Kim
Location: mundo de ensueño
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Next time you should read through the thread, at least for posts by the OP - this is Kelly we're talking about - of COURSE he balanced his wheels
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Progrip tank pad, blue rim stripes, blue Pazzos, Roaring Toyz lowering kit, Puig DB in dark smoke, Cortech sport tail, super mini tank, and saddlebags, OES swingarm spools and Intuitive frame sliders |
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October 17th, 2009, 02:31 PM | #155 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Greg
Location: Rhode Island
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2013 ZX6R 636 Posts: A lot.
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I have a pretty good oscillation from about 55mph down to 45 mph when taking my hands off the bars. Above 55 no problem, below 40 no problem. As posted earlier bike is all stock with 8K for miles with original tires. Front tire looks great. Back is starting to flatten across the middle front pressure is 28 cold and rear is 32, according to 2 guages. Might bump them up a couple psi each. Per the chain adjuster guides (I know questionable) both sides are about 2 1/2 notches from the front. Each adjuster has 6 threads showing behind the locking nut. With stock exhaust it is hard to get a measure from the axle to the swingarm pivot.
I tried one other thing. I removed the chain guard. I measured the clearance from the front of the rim to the swingarm. The left side had about a 1/2 inch more clearance than the right. To me the swingarm looks symmetrical. Has anyone noticed less clearance on the right? |
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October 20th, 2009, 11:30 AM | #156 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Greg
Location: Rhode Island
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2013 ZX6R 636 Posts: A lot.
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Stopped by dealership at lunch and saw a couple mechanic friends. They checked steering head for play and couldn't find any slop. They checked the rear wheel alignment and found it to be off .6mm. Didn't think that was enough to cause problem but I will adjust it tonight. Double checked air pressure. Bike has 8,500 miles. Front shows now sign of cupping, just normal wear. Rear is in need of replacement soon, but wear is not abnormal. Their concensus is that bike shouldn't have any shake and they recommend rebalancing front wheel (and of course replacing rear tire). Couldn't find any balance weight - I am not sure if there was one and it fell off??
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November 23rd, 2009, 02:57 PM | #157 |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
Location: Newnan, GA
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.
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I take my hands off the bars extremely often at all speeds and never saw this until last night (10,400 miles). It started a violent shake that looked like it would have progressed to a full-on tank-slapper had I not grabbed 'em when I did. I was probably under 30MPH decelerating to a stop light that I frequently decelerate at the same exact way. Everything is stock on my bike.
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January 4th, 2010, 11:51 PM | #158 |
Da Duckman
Name: Duckman
Location: Pensacola, FL
Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, '06 Chopper, '80 Puch Magnum II, '01 SV650, '99 CR250/CR500AF Sportbike. '02 CRF450/CR500AF Dirt Posts: 480
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I've got a case of the hands-off shimmies, too!
It just started in the last few weeks. Wheels are aligned fine, tire pressure at spec. It doesn't seem to matter what speed I am going, but it always when decelerating, whether it be 90mph or 20mph. (I can't say I have the same problem when accellerating with both of my hands off the bars as I haven't found a good way to do this yet, lol.) I'm 250lbs and it seems to be worse when I stand up on the footpegs with no hands, or sit up on the tank (showing off.) My back tire is showing cords, the front one is starting to entirely lose its tread. So I'm not going to worry about the shimmies or fixing them until the tires are replaced this week. Last futzed with by TheDuck; January 5th, 2010 at 08:45 AM. |
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January 5th, 2010, 12:50 AM | #159 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Frank
Location: Pasadena
Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): 87 Ninja 250, 90 Ninja ZX750R, GPZ 900r, 02 Moto Guzzi LeMans, 95 Triumph Speed Triple Posts: 121
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I second Brooms comments.
By dropping your fork lower you might not have level the fork at its natural state or level so creating binding in the process. I installed a fork brace on my bike and at first I just clamp on the brace with the bike on its side stand and go riding, I notice the bike starts to wobble around 80mph and at fast corners the front end just feel twitchy at certain lean angels. Got home, take off the fork brace, put bike on center stand and push the forks up and down cycling through its travel couple times and let it settle, then clamp on the fork brace back on.....presto!!! problem solved Check that you drop your fork equally on both legs as that is my suspect to your problem. |
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January 5th, 2010, 01:48 AM | #160 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Laurence
Location: Cali
Join Date: Dec 2009 Motorcycle(s): Nasty Ninja 250 Posts: 4
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mine does the same thing. i learned to live with it.
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