May 27th, 2011, 09:16 PM | #121 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: T
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Kevin, the video you posted was a PERFECT example of what I mentioned earlier in my first post on this thread. Some riders act like the roads are their very own racetrack. It doesn't surprise me that some drivers get pissed off and road-rage like these guys. IT DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT AT ALL. But I at least make the correlation between assholes that ride TOO FAST and the drivers of vehicles that want to KILL them.
I teach students all day long that even when they are not guilty of something, based on past behavior, they are perceived as being guilty. This is the issue. Most drivers don't ride motorcycles. It could be argued that a large number of riders, sportriders in particular, are giving ALL riders everywhere a bad name. In other words, the riders using the street as a track cause some drivers (or even most) to perceive ALL riders are selfish, uncaring jerks who treat the road as their own personal playground. AGAIN, IT DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT, FOR THE STUDENTS OR THE RIDERS, BUT IT DOES MAKE IT REALITY. We as riders need to be riding defensively and take the excess speed to the track (or at the very least, desolate or deserted roads). We sportriders already get a bad enough rap from the squids who want to pull all sorts of stunting on public highways. Experienced riders adding to that because they use the road as a track is not good for the longevity of the sport. Motorcycle hate is everywhere. Look at all the anti-motorcycle laws going up in various parts of the country. Simply because the group as a whole, a minority group I might add, has failed to regulate itself in a manner that is pleasing to the majority. One day we may not have to worry about drivers running motorcyclists off the road because there won't be any motorcycles legally on the road at the rate we're going.
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May 27th, 2011, 09:19 PM | #122 | |
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stopping to regroup may be the "rules", but when you encounter a driver like this, you need to be smart enough to alter your plans and not place yourself in harms way. I am glad they are bringing charges against the truck driver and hope others can learn from this vid how not to respond to a aggressive driver and decide alternate ways to deal with this type. phr3ek- the vid you posted shows exactly why the truck driver had a bias against sport bikes. riding like that belongs on the track, not on the streets. if that's "normal" where you live, I'm glad I don't live where you do. that type of riding is totally unacceptable in my book. I wouldn't ride with a group who rides like that. |
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May 27th, 2011, 09:26 PM | #123 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: T
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The problem with your logic is that you fail to see the argument from the other side. I am not the authority, but nor is he/she. If I am in front, then obviously I was there first and if the person behind me wants to go faster, then they can go around me. If I'm not speeding, then I am in the right lane. I have just as much right to the road as the guy/girl that wants to run 90-100 instead of the 85 I'm doing.
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May 27th, 2011, 09:30 PM | #124 | |
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May 27th, 2011, 09:32 PM | #125 | |
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seriously, it's called "courtesy of the road". If you are in the left lane and there are others coming up from behind you, move over and let them by. a post from long ago, but seems fitting for this thread... http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=26276& |
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May 27th, 2011, 09:45 PM | #126 | |||
meow?
Name: kevin
Location: I.E. SoCal
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just think about it this way, a truck tried to run you off the road, he then taunted you by tapping your bike, you honestly think most ppl would have just backed off and let it slide? in the 1st vid, they were the only ones in that specific stretch of road, absolutely no reason to "block" anyone there are times when ppl have cut me off and i let it go but if i get get provoked, i will do something, i wont just let it slide a 2nd time if the driver had problems with another biker, that is his problem, let him deal with it at his own time, not on the road he has no right to randomly take it out on ANY rider he sees Quote:
the riders clearly went to the other side of the road to pass them they werent even trying to get the truckers to scoot over in the 1st vid, the group is only 2 ppl, if the bikers did do something, he can easily bump both of the road, he even came out with a crowbar at the end in the 2nd vid, he waited for the last person of the group Quote:
idk what type of rider you are but the riders in the vids are avid canyon carvers/track riders, you can tell by their attire as i said b4, NONE of those type of riders will let 1 bad driver ruin the days ride ppl can perceive us however they want but facts are facts, trucker deliberately went out of their way to "block" a motorcyclist just because they think im a douchbag, reckless, gang banging biker doesnt mean i am one stereotypes label any and every group of ppl |
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May 27th, 2011, 09:47 PM | #127 | |
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I read some of the comments on youtube. Its amazing how many biker haters there are out there. Truly amazing. I didn't do anything to these people, and yet they hate me because I ride a motorcycle. |
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May 27th, 2011, 09:49 PM | #128 |
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May 27th, 2011, 09:51 PM | #129 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: T
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Kelly, I agree it is courteous. It is also potentially dangerous pulling that "nice" maneuver here in the Atlanta area. More often than not, if the driver behind you has the room in the next lane, he/she will already be in the next lane and be passing you by the time you could react, given that you should have been giving more attention to what's going on in front of you, than to what's going on behind you. So what seems like a polite gesture could be a recipe for disaster.
I'll point out the autobahn one more time. As I understand it there, it is common courtesy (and I believe a law) to move over for faster traffic. Everyone does it. Here in the states, where we as a nation are lacking in real driving skills to begin with, not everyone adheres to the rules. My mother and my mother-in-law are perfect examples. These two women are the type of driver to get into the left lane five miles early to make a left turn, even though they are driving 10 mph under the limit. These women are the type of driver, who if they needed to make a quick change to the right for faster traffic to pass, would probably have an accident; this is assuming they would get over in the first place (they wouldn't). U.S. road are littered with drivers like this all over the place. Let's see, there is also the driver who drives in the left lane at 20 over, then 20 under, because they are texting. Or the minivan mom who thinks she's a NASCAR star, and runs 100 in the left lane, but always needs two lanes to actually turn. Too many variables are in place in the American driving experience to make consistently getting over for a faster vehicle a safe task. Like I said, if I am driving the speed limit, I do stay in the right lane, right up to the point it may be necessary for me to need to make a left turn. When I am speeding, I make sure I am going considerably over the speed limit. In light traffic, I will get over for faster vehicles. But then again, in light traffic, I am probably already in the right so I don't have to get over. FWIW, if it weren't for speed limits, I would always be one of the fastest drivers in the left lane.
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May 27th, 2011, 09:55 PM | #130 | ||
meow?
Name: kevin
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lets just be real, when we are faced with a life or death situation, we naturally think the WORST that could happen whether the trucker was just trying to block or kill the guy, he was the cause of the problem the trucker did not need to move from where he was at as the rider clearly went to the other lane though riders crossing the lane is unsafe/illegal, it is more dangerous for both a bike and a truck in the opposing lane Quote:
we can preach about who's right and who's wrong and how things should be but that wont change a thing |
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May 27th, 2011, 10:03 PM | #131 | |
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May 27th, 2011, 10:13 PM | #132 | |
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We see a honda, we call 'em ricers. We see a muscle car, we call 'em gearheads. We see a Ford pickup, we call 'em rednecks. Canyon carving, don't get me wrong, looks like a lot of fun, but it's also illegal. You can't legally go upwards of 80mph in any back roads. Especially where they were, I live 5 minutes away. Just ride safe and not angry/vindictive is all I can say.
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May 27th, 2011, 10:13 PM | #133 | |
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May 27th, 2011, 10:16 PM | #134 | ||||
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He didn't do it to you either. He did it to someone who fit the stereotype and helped reinforce it (the biker could easily be described as a "reckless douche"). Justifying it there will only justify his stereotyping you and me. |
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May 27th, 2011, 10:20 PM | #135 | |
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May 27th, 2011, 10:21 PM | #136 | |
meow?
Name: kevin
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i do ride safe and conservative, for about 5 min at a time but seriously, when i get cut off, i get mad, pass the guy, and go about my way i dont want a clouded mind to potentially get me into an accident in traffic |
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May 27th, 2011, 10:29 PM | #137 |
meow?
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jet, i honestly dont understand your train of thought
why would you expect a driver to suddenly cut you off on purpose? i mean i think the same way, in traffic, but that's usually because they didnt see me but out in an open road, i just dont see why a driver would feel the need to block me (first vid) it's not like im forcing him to move over so i can pass, or get in front of him and brake.... as for the tapping in the 2nd vid, you could be right, maybe he just wanted to tailgate to make the rider go faster and accidentally tapped him but why didnt he pull over and apologize? also i noticed he almost hit an oncoming car at 1:37 trying to pass the cruiser in front of him, because he was attempting to get away from the rider chasing him i do understand that you're trying to point out that we as riders should not add to the bad rep we already hold ps. im done with this thread, too much assumptions flying around we wont find who's wrong and who's wronger without facts |
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May 27th, 2011, 10:59 PM | #138 | |
ninjette.org member
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A woman may walk the streets at any hour, in any neighborhood, dressed however she wants, flirt and even engage in consensual sex with a partner. At any time, she withholds consent or is incapable of giving consent due to her mental state, the right thing to do is stop. No matter a person did or said before that point, it takes a rapist to cross that line and violate another human being. You may not intend it, but you are making excuses for the perpetrator of rape by blaming the victim. A person cannot ask to be violated against and there is no shared blame. Questioning a rape victim's intelligence for putting herself in the situation is in extremely poor taste and serves no purpose other than affirm the worldview of "people get what they deserve". It is a worldview that is tied closely with our sense of safety and control, and people naturally defend it. In its defense, people come to the conclusion that something horrific and unjust was done onto a person because he or she had something to do in causing the event. Some blame intelligence. Others blame character. People come to this conclusion because they would like to believe that if they are smarter and more careful, they may prevent these horrific and unjust things from happening to them and their loved ones. The sooner a person realizes that this is an illusion of control, the sooner he or she can truly live their lives free from the troubles of life. Life may be suffering, but one does not necessarily have to suffer through it. |
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May 28th, 2011, 12:12 AM | #139 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jeremy
Location: Hawaii
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Wow, just wow. Some of the opinions in this thread are as bad, if not worse, than the video.
1st video: The bike was in the wrong for passing on a double yellow. Whether passing on a double yellow is legal or not in your state, it's a law designed to keep people from getting stuck behind farm equipment or extremely slow drivers i.e. people who are lost. It is NOT designed so you can blow past them at whatever speed you feel like because they aren't keeping up to your pace. As far as the truck driver, I hope they nail his ass to the wall. I HATE drunk drivers. I've buried far to many friends because some drunk **** decided to get behind the wheel, only to walk away without a scratch after killing someone. Personally I think a DUI should be an automatic loss of license, permanently. There is absolutely no way to justify driving while drunk, none. If you think so, you're a freaking idiot. The biker who passed and then stopped at the sign didn't do anything wrong when he stopped. His bike was parked in a manner where he could have quickly gotten on and taken off. Odds are he stopped to make sure his buddy was still on two wheels and was waiting for him to catch up. The biker who held back probably stayed with the truck to keep track of him. As far as him stopping completely, no way. I would keep going to make sure my buddy didn't go down while trying to get away. Although he probably should have dropped back a bit further once he had the truck's plate. 2nd video: Those riders should have their license pulled too. Again, absolutely no excuse for driving the way they were. As far as the truck, yea, stupid move on his part. The rider blowing past so he could get ahead, stop, and confront the driver, bullshit. Throwing something at a moving vehicle is just as bad, if not worse, than what the truck did. That is probably one of the very, very few times where I will say someone was asking for it. The truck drivers in both videos were in the wrong. The bikers were not affecting them in any way (the second video is arguable) and they decided to take matters into their own hands. Good way to get yourself and others killed. As far as speeding, I do it too. However, I speed to go with the flow of traffic, or when the road is completely deserted when I'm going cross country. If you can't go with the flow of traffic and feel the need to blow past them or not have a little common courtesy, you shouldn't be driving/riding. I just love how people can complain about other drivers yet admit to being part of the problem all in the same breath. Hypocrisy at its finest. |
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May 28th, 2011, 01:52 AM | #140 | |
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The major difference is that the motorcyclist is in a lot more danger but that is not what an enraged driver is thinking about and not some reason for a rider to expect less retaliation. Do you honestly expect a rager to consider that before acting impulsively? If he did, it wouldn't be a rage-induced compulsion. |
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May 28th, 2011, 02:27 AM | #141 |
Tightwad Tinker
Name: Hans
Location: Lexington, Ky
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Alternative Interpretation
Putting reckless drivers of cages in cages spoils all the fun.
Every time I get on the bike I know that all other people - including other motorcyclists - are trying to commit vehicular manslaughter as soon as they see me. It's harder to aim a car on a wet road, so riding in the rain is an act of extreme cowardice, as is riding a black bike at night in all-black gear with the intention to be less likely singled out as a target, so real daredevils wear bright colors. |
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May 28th, 2011, 05:07 AM | #142 | |
ninjette.org guru
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Well played, Hans, well played. |
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May 28th, 2011, 05:43 AM | #143 | |
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It doesn't matter if you're going 5 below, the speed limit, or 20 above: If a vehicle is going faster than you, you are required to move over to let them pass if safe to do so. Sadly, not enough people are pulled over for being that stupid. |
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May 28th, 2011, 06:08 AM | #144 | ||
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So? The fine for that is $10, not death. And who elected a drunken redneck to be judge, jury and executioner?
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To convict in the case of this video, the DA needs the two riders to testify "Yeah, that's the guy." Getting the tag is a big help, but in noways guarantees a conviction. If the bikers had just pulled off somewhere and let him go after getting the tag, neither could testify as to who was really behind the wheel. Case dismissed. Quote:
In the first video the drunk got caught. In the second, he got off easy with a dinged fender. Very light considering he's guilty of a hit and run. |
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May 28th, 2011, 07:33 AM | #145 |
vampire
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Motorcycles passing cars in double yellow is likely the reason that most drivers hate motorcycles.
There was not a whole lot of video footage prior to the passing, maybe the motorcyclist was tailgating that truck for a good amount of time? I pass cars during double yellow all the time, but I make sure that I pass them quickly and there will be catching up for the car to try and ram me from behind. Poor judgment on both vehicle operators from what I could see. |
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May 28th, 2011, 08:16 AM | #146 |
Wartown, USA
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Its a really simple concept, I dont know why its so hard for everyone to grasp.
Bikers - minor traffic violation, for crossing double yellow, and perhaps a speeding ticket. Trucker - Attempted murder, DUI, brandishing a weapon during a felony, reckless driving, assault with a deadly weapon...the list goes on an on. This idiot truck driver nearly killed at least 6 motorcyclists on his drunken rampage. The idiot tryed to run the guy off the road, and then tried to speed up to run him over...just barely missing other innocent motorcyclists in possible head-on collisions. If I was the biker in front, I would have stopped at the next stop sign too, to make sure that crazy SOB didnt kill any of my buddies with his drunk driving rampage of hate. And the first time that drunken psycho stepped out of his truck with a crowbar, I would have shot him. I hope he never gets out of jail. I also agree with RhinoJC....you get caught drunk driving, you should lose your license permanently. No excuses, no second chances. |
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May 28th, 2011, 08:59 AM | #147 | |
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May 28th, 2011, 09:04 AM | #148 |
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I didnt count them but there was at least 3 bikes going the other way. 1 of which had to change his underware for sure when he got home.
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May 28th, 2011, 09:05 AM | #149 | |
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You might have missed that the rider threw a rock at the end that very well may have busted the windshield and certainly did some kind of damage. |
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May 28th, 2011, 09:42 AM | #150 |
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May 28th, 2011, 10:00 AM | #151 |
KThanksBye
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Mr. I got pulled over going 100+ to the tech day
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May 28th, 2011, 10:55 AM | #152 |
The Corner Whisperer
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I live near the area of the first vid, and have ridden that road. Scary, truly scary...... I can say first hand, the locals in this area do not like the sport bikes riding 90mph through their little out of the way towns.
Now... For this area of Kentucky passing on a double yellow is a common practice and not just for bikes either. Cars do it all the time. The farmers drive slow pulling hay, cows... ect as do alot of the locals. I am kinda with kkim, put as much space as possible between you and "stupidity" no matter the form it takes. And don't stop to let it catch back up with you. This goes for me on a bike, in a car or on foot. And let the police or nature deal with what is out of authority. Its kinda simple overall. If the locals are hating bikes enough to do things like this, find somewhere else to ride, or make an effort to respect their part of the world as you are the visitor. |
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May 28th, 2011, 10:58 AM | #153 |
meow?
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May 28th, 2011, 11:11 AM | #154 |
KThanksBye
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May 28th, 2011, 12:13 PM | #155 | |
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As far as why the second rider didn't run off and hide, I think that is only proper group biking etiquette. The whole point of going in a group is so that if you get in trouble, someone has your back. If you plan to run and hide the minute there is trouble, I don't want you riding with me. |
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May 28th, 2011, 12:19 PM | #156 |
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Ok...what does the vid show;
Biker attempts to pass illegally Trucker swerves...."well shucks yer honor...I was trying to get outta that crazy boys way" Biker complete illegal maneuver A second biker follows trucker Trucker continues to drive erratically..."well shucks yer honor...I thought that boy was-a chasin' me" Bikers confront trucker...."see yer honor, them boys wuz after me and i was in fear for my life" ...now, while everybody knows what happened all that's shown is 3 guys breaking traffic laws ( and the good ol' trucker DID slow down to avoid that lil' golf cart" and 2 guys confronting 1. That vid would get the bikers in trouble, not the trucker. Hey, c'mon...we all cross the double line when there's some slug ahead of us but now, this vid let's you see that you better theink twice before you do it. |
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May 28th, 2011, 01:16 PM | #157 | |
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May 28th, 2011, 01:17 PM | #158 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
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Nope, it didn't make the news that I know of. I am not a big TV watcher though. I will see what I can dig up.
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May 28th, 2011, 01:24 PM | #159 | |
KThanksBye
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May 28th, 2011, 01:38 PM | #160 | |
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