April 1st, 2015, 04:23 PM | #1681 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jack
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Aug 2014 Motorcycle(s): 1999 Ninja 250 Posts: 17
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I'll give that a shot. Other than this kit, I haven't modded the bike at all. All original equipment.
Edit: Holy god. Went out, key on, disconnected computer, wait 5 seconds, reconnected, key off. Key on, try to start bike. The ****er backfired, nearly shat myself. Tried again, after 3 seconds of cranking, BAM! again. Something is seriously wrong here. I gotta emphasize, this bike ran perfectly fine with this kit installed for a month, and I changed nothing, and now these issues. What is going on with the computer in this kit. |
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April 1st, 2015, 06:02 PM | #1682 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: bob
Location: Earf
Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Ninja 250, 2006 SV650N Posts: 642
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Aren't you supposed to run in rich mode before using eco mode?
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April 1st, 2015, 07:04 PM | #1683 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Byron
Location: Reno, NV
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Quote:
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1990 250F. ex300 motor swap, 15/42 gearing, flush side markers, newgen intergrated front fairing, rear integrated turn signals, DB Touring Bubble, zx600 rear shock, Custom DanMoto Exhaust |
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April 1st, 2015, 07:05 PM | #1684 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Byron
Location: Reno, NV
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja ex250 1990 Posts: 761
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No. ECO mode sets up a map that it changes for the altitude, load, and driving style. Once thats set rich mode just makes the map a bit richer. But you can change the map to how you please as well.
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1990 250F. ex300 motor swap, 15/42 gearing, flush side markers, newgen intergrated front fairing, rear integrated turn signals, DB Touring Bubble, zx600 rear shock, Custom DanMoto Exhaust |
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April 1st, 2015, 07:10 PM | #1685 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Byron
Location: Reno, NV
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja ex250 1990 Posts: 761
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Quote:
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1990 250F. ex300 motor swap, 15/42 gearing, flush side markers, newgen intergrated front fairing, rear integrated turn signals, DB Touring Bubble, zx600 rear shock, Custom DanMoto Exhaust |
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April 1st, 2015, 07:11 PM | #1686 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: bob
Location: Earf
Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Ninja 250, 2006 SV650N Posts: 642
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Sorry I was thinking of closed loop mode so it doesn't pull data from the O2 sensors. May be something worth trying to rule out. The stock map should be pretty close to optimal so if it still runs bad you can rule out a faulty O2 sensor. Would have to be tried right after the reset/wipe.
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April 1st, 2015, 07:18 PM | #1687 |
Master modder
Name: Andrew
Location: Australia
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): TURBO gpx250 99 CB250/500rs Sherco290 Trials Indian 1911big base (replica) Posts: 138
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Sorry, That is the type of support responses I have been getting, totally inadequate and in decipherable. I believe he is telling you your base map is too rich but the real question is why. My bike was similar and I ended up setting the world value to .85. hat fixed mine but I have no explanation why the map was so far out. Good luck with support, I waited over a month and have no answers to my questions. Shame because it is a very versatile system.
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April 1st, 2015, 07:19 PM | #1688 | ||
ninjette.org member
Name: Jack
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Aug 2014 Motorcycle(s): 1999 Ninja 250 Posts: 17
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Quote:
Quote:
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April 18th, 2015, 03:55 PM | #1689 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jack
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Aug 2014 Motorcycle(s): 1999 Ninja 250 Posts: 17
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Quote:
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April 18th, 2015, 05:19 PM | #1690 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jack
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Aug 2014 Motorcycle(s): 1999 Ninja 250 Posts: 17
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Did another test ride. The bike wouldn't start at all, until I switched it to rich mode. Then it started after 8 or 9 seconds of cranking. I tried putting the laptop in a backpack to record procal data, but the serial to usb connector ecotrons sent seems to be bad quality, and anytime it was jiggled procal lost the connection.
The bike stayed running in rich mode, but only barely. It runs until I get to about 6000 rpms in second gear, and then it starts bogging down like crazy. The only difference is, this time, while in rich mode, when I pulled in the clutch and feathered the gas it recovered and didn't stall out, although it ran like ****. Before I reset the computer, whether in eco or rich mode, when I got to 6000 in second, it would bog down and stall out, and then when restarted, bog and sputter on idle, and die if I gave it any throttle whatsoever. Now I can get it to recover if I clutch in and feather the gas. If I try going over 6000 in second again, it will bog down again. Is this the right thread to be asking for troubleshooting help, or is there a better one? |
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April 18th, 2015, 10:43 PM | #1691 | |
Master modder
Name: Andrew
Location: Australia
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): TURBO gpx250 99 CB250/500rs Sherco290 Trials Indian 1911big base (replica) Posts: 138
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Quote:
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[B]Come and see my turbo ninja build, dyno build and other stuff at http://swarfman64.blogspot.com.au/20...rtia-dyno.html |
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July 2nd, 2015, 09:14 AM | #1692 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jack
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Aug 2014 Motorcycle(s): 1999 Ninja 250 Posts: 17
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Updates on my kit problem: I fiddled with the idle air screws and procal. At 3.5 turns out, it seemed like I'd fixed the problem; when I test drove it around the block for 20 minutes it didn't bog down at all. Then I took it for a freeway test drive and it bogged down about 2 miles in. I pulled over, let it cool down, tried again, bogged down after a mile. Tried again, but kept it below 5500 rpms. The low rpms also kept the engine speed almost at cold. This time it stayed running for 5 more freeway miles, and didn't bog down til I pulled off the freeway and sat at a couple lights.
It seems like hotter engine temps are contributing to it bogging down. But it takes longer to do this since I opened the air screws up. Does anyone know how many turns out the air screws are 'supposed' to have? Also, any ideas on why hotter engine temps are causing this? I would think the fuel is vaporizing before the pump, but my lines are opaque black and I can't see it. If I took pics, could someone tell me if my setup is running too close to the engine block/transmission housing? Would wrapping my lines with heat shield tape do any good, or would it be worthless? |
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July 2nd, 2015, 09:38 AM | #1693 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Jason
Location: Norfolk, VA
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How does your MAP Sensor read?
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July 2nd, 2015, 10:12 AM | #1694 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jack
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Aug 2014 Motorcycle(s): 1999 Ninja 250 Posts: 17
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What value in procal do I need to check for that info?
When adjusting the air screws, fLc and fLc2 stayed around .75 pretty consistently, and uLsb and uLsb2 stayed higher than .45V. Edit: It is a heat problem of some kind. Took it out around 1 pm, outdoor temp was 85F, bike wouldn't run more than a mile without bogging and dying. Engine temp wasn't even very high yet. Last futzed with by Kasatka; July 2nd, 2015 at 05:12 PM. |
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July 9th, 2015, 07:56 AM | #1695 |
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does the log show it cutting off at the switch point between the hot and cold maps?
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August 13th, 2015, 09:52 AM | #1696 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Michael
Location: Newport Beach, CA
Join Date: Aug 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2017 Ninja 300 Posts: 24
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Bump
Okay, considering the Ecotron kit. I'm getting a lot of mixed signals from the tech threads, so...
...the Ecotron website has a link to 2012 posts (on this thread, amusingly) about how nifty the kit is and how much everybody likes it. They also make a huge deal about how the Gen. 2 parts are a huge upgrade. From the age of the link I suspect the Gen. 2 "upgrade" isn't a whole lot more recent than that. So here's the point: would people generally recommend it, based on reliability and ease of use? Or is this one of those novelty mods that turns out to be more trouble than it's worth? I really like my '12, but I miss the smoothness of FI. However, I don't want to spend a week installing a lemon. Thoughts? |
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August 13th, 2015, 11:59 AM | #1697 | ||
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Quote:
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August 13th, 2015, 09:04 PM | #1698 | |
Wannabe Reborn
Name: Unregistered
Location: Cincy Ohio
Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): Blue 2008 Ninja 250 Posts: 302
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Quote:
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" If you're here to show off and prove that your crotch rocket is faster than my Harley, you can leave now. " |
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August 14th, 2015, 12:30 AM | #1699 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Michael
Location: Newport Beach, CA
Join Date: Aug 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2017 Ninja 300 Posts: 24
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Quote:
There's a 250 FI conversion kit other than this one? Every link I've found leads back to the Ecotron. |
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August 14th, 2015, 08:38 AM | #1700 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Jay
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There is no "kit". You basically buy and piece the parts together from an overseas 250. In EU they are FI.
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Current - 2015 30th Anniversary Ninja 636 ABS - 1969 Honda 305 Scrambler Previously - 2011 Ninja 1000, 2008 Ducati 848, 2011 Ninja 250 SE |
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August 14th, 2015, 09:07 AM | #1701 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: bob
Location: Earf
Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Ninja 250, 2006 SV650N Posts: 642
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August 14th, 2015, 10:39 AM | #1702 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Michael
Location: Newport Beach, CA
Join Date: Aug 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2017 Ninja 300 Posts: 24
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August 15th, 2015, 10:26 AM | #1703 |
Wannabe Reborn
Name: Unregistered
Location: Cincy Ohio
Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): Blue 2008 Ninja 250 Posts: 302
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Correct. There is no clear cut 'buy this' link and everything shows up. Nor are there any perfect set of instructions. Sorry if that was misleading, not my intention. There are some on here who have done both the 250 FI from overseas, and the 300 FI from here in US, to a 08-12 250 with success. If it were me, I would lean towards the 300 FI due to parts availability being local. From the little reading I've done, its essentially the same as 250 FI kit. Running through this thread has re-ignited my interest in the 250/300 FI....I'll do some research and send you something. Stay on me, a million things going right now...
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" If you're here to show off and prove that your crotch rocket is faster than my Harley, you can leave now. " |
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August 15th, 2015, 02:53 PM | #1704 | |
modaholic junkie
Name: Nick
Location: Athens, Greece
Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2001 ZX-12R, 2009 ninja 345cc and plenty of others in the past... Posts: 438
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Quote:
but I can tell you what you need to get it done... If you go for the 250's 28mm TBs (including TPS and injectors) you will also need: 1)a fuel pump (either external or some modding necessary to fit a stock one in your tank) 2) a EU-version ecu and harness (any year will do but best are '08-'09) 3) some sensors (such as Intake Air Temp sensor Intake Pressure Sensor, Speed sensor etc) some times put along with harness if asked from certain sellers... For some more significant performance improvement I would strongly suggest the 300's 32mm TBs (also including their TPS and injectors which are different from 250's not only in fuel delivery capacity* but also in size) along with either the 300's stock fuel pump or an aftermarket one, preferably a good and tested wallbro For the ecu I would suggest the 250's again because of the higher rev limiter (250-500rpm more compared to 300's) and probably lower cost, the harness and sensors as mentioned above BUT ALSO 1) The head boots (different than 250's both in size and chamfering degree) 2) The air hornets, for the same reason as the head boots... I guess it is easy to figure why since the 32mm TBs are quite larger in outside diameter on both sides compared to the 250's * 300's injectors provide less cc of fuel/min because the 300's fuel pump is that of a big bike as preesure and supply figures indicate while 250's injectors are larger -stock part of previous gen ZX-6- but the 250's fuel pump is...well let's just say...inadequate for other applications... so it would be best to couple 250 parts together or 300 parts on the fuel delivery lineup and not mix them up...
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August 21st, 2015, 04:11 AM | #1705 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Bob
Location: Scotland
Join Date: Apr 2015 Motorcycle(s): Bandit 750, Trike. Posts: 33
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1) Can anyone tell me if learning mode modifies your base table and saves it or if it has it's own table of changes that it applies to your base table?
The way I understand it, after initial install with a base map that gives stable running, you run in eco mode for a week with O2 sensors fitted and it learns and modifies the base map for best 14.7 AFR. You can then fetch from ECU and save that modified cal file in case you want to go back to it later. You can then run in rich mode which adds an enriching factor to your (now modified) base map. Some bikes/riders like/need to run a bit rich and eco mode will always try and learn it's way back to 14.7 so you have to run in rich mode or unplug your sensors to overcome that. That's the way I see it but I may well be wrong, can anyone confirm this? 2) can the system learn with only one O2 sensor? would using 2 sensors not need 2 tables (one per sensor/cylinder)? As an EFI virgin I'm trying to get my head round this ecu. It's a great way to learn about this EFI stuff. :-) Last futzed with by bigbadbob; August 21st, 2015 at 06:36 AM. |
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August 21st, 2015, 10:06 AM | #1706 | |
modaholic junkie
Name: Nick
Location: Athens, Greece
Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2001 ZX-12R, 2009 ninja 345cc and plenty of others in the past... Posts: 438
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Quote:
If your question is about programming some piggyback device (PC V, Bazaaz etc) try creating a new post providing as many details as possible concerning your bike, its upgrades -if any- and the system you are using, so that members with relevant experience get a chance to help you out... If you are referring to the ecotrons kit programming, I do not have experience with it and probably that is why I am cofused about your question...
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August 21st, 2015, 11:42 AM | #1707 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Bob
Location: Scotland
Join Date: Apr 2015 Motorcycle(s): Bandit 750, Trike. Posts: 33
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Quote:
Yes, I'm refering to ecotrons kit programming. I'm using an Ecotrons ninja 250 kit in my trike project and hoping to learn something about EFI along the way. As the guys on here have a lot of experiance with the kit, I thought it was a good place to ask my question. If it's not apropriate here, please accept my apologies. I'd gladly start a thread about my project but it probably doesn't belong on a Ninjette forum. It's pretty bizarre so probably doesn't belong anywhere. |
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August 21st, 2015, 12:48 PM | #1708 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Quote:
Pictures diagrams on napkins what ever you have . We want to see it.
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Top speed 123.369mph. Ohio mile Worlds fastest 250 ninja |
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August 21st, 2015, 01:01 PM | #1709 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Bob
Location: Scotland
Join Date: Apr 2015 Motorcycle(s): Bandit 750, Trike. Posts: 33
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not a ninja engine, not even a parallel twin. and yes... the kit works with it.
There's a bit about it here- http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...post1130889891 Don't want to drag this thread off topic tho. ( I hope Matt doesn't have kittens when he see's what i've done. you can see why I wouldn't expect him to support me) |
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August 21st, 2015, 01:23 PM | #1710 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Eric
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Sorry still a very cool project. And it would be fine in the off topic section.
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Top speed 123.369mph. Ohio mile Worlds fastest 250 ninja |
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August 21st, 2015, 01:29 PM | #1711 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Bob
Location: Scotland
Join Date: Apr 2015 Motorcycle(s): Bandit 750, Trike. Posts: 33
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Cool beans RacerX.
I'll mosey on over there and put up a bit about it. |
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August 21st, 2015, 04:07 PM | #1712 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jack
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Aug 2014 Motorcycle(s): 1999 Ninja 250 Posts: 17
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I'm having a hell of a time figuring that out. I think I may see that it recorded a map error of some kind, but could be wrong. Can anyone help interpret whether it's cutting off between the hot and cold maps from this log file? This is part of what I sent to ecotrons last time, but Matt didn't say anything about the map sensor.
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August 22nd, 2015, 05:02 AM | #1713 | |
modaholic junkie
Name: Nick
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Quote:
that's the kind of stuff I love ! So sorry I can't help you with programming it...
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If noone has tried it before, I will !!! |
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August 22nd, 2015, 07:30 AM | #1714 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Bob
Location: Scotland
Join Date: Apr 2015 Motorcycle(s): Bandit 750, Trike. Posts: 33
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Looks like a MAP sensor error to me Jack.
Map sensor signal looks really screwy until near the end, I see where it's cutting out but the MAP signal looks ok then apart from it recording a MAP error during crank?? I'm not sure what you mean by hot and cold maps but the warmup factor is still ramping down throughout the graph and hasn't reached 0 before the end so it's still in the warmup fuel phase. |
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October 24th, 2016, 01:23 PM | #1715 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Rick
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Hey everyone! I hope you're all doing well. I'm back at trying to get this bike running again and have forgotten all of this stuff. The bike currently doesn't start (is completely EFI related), and I would love some direction on where to begin. I have a feeling that it needs to be completely reflashed with some kinds of base mapping? The current owner of the bike has sold off the aftermarket exhaust, but is still using the K&N pod filter. Please help me get it running!
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October 25th, 2016, 01:09 AM | #1716 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Mike
Location: Auckland NZ
Join Date: Jun 2013 Motorcycle(s): McIntosh Kawasaki turbo, FZR/MB100 bucket + one work in progress Posts: 11
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My own personal experience with Ecotrons, a GPz250 kit on a Yamaha twin, is that if you have any sort of odd thing happen then first up reflash, then reload the last known good setup. Even if you compare what might be in the ECU itself with a saved of copy of the same configuration and find no difference I have found that a reflash corrects something. Difficulty starting was one issue that was instantly corrected with a reflash and reload. Even between dyno runs. Sometimes I would make a change and it would go off and have a problem and not start. Reverting to the configuration prior to the change it still would not start. Reflash more often than not fixed the problem.
I had an ECU from the batch with the problem where a wire, or wires, on the connector was a bit long and was intermittently touching the case of the ECU. I suspected this was causing issues but even after trimming all the wires down and insulating the case for good measure I still had the problem. I found this problem before Ecotrons admitted the problem and got round it by electrically isolating the ECU from the chassis. A good indicator that the ECU is having a problem is that the TPS gauge will not budge off 0% until the throttle is open anywhere from 10-50%. |
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October 25th, 2016, 08:31 AM | #1717 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Rick
Location: Napa, CA
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Quote:
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December 7th, 2019, 06:32 PM | #1718 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Nick
Location: Austin, Tx Area
Join Date: Jun 2019 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawi Ninja 250r, 2013 Ducati 848 evo Posts: 8
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I found this system on their site, but can't get any info on how to order, or if it's even still available.
Are they still making this EFI kit? |
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December 7th, 2019, 07:06 PM | #1719 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: bob
Location: Earf
Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Ninja 250, 2006 SV650N Posts: 642
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I'm not sure. Seems most new bikes come with EFI now. Might want to contact ecotrons directly.
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December 7th, 2019, 07:24 PM | #1720 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
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I suggest looking into more robust EFI system such as Microsquirt. Much larger user and support base. Search for Greg737's install on his Ninja 250 and Bandit 400
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