May 6th, 2012, 12:51 PM | #161 | |
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Matt did say that he would be shipping me the new fuel tap and regulator. He said Feb 23: "I will send you these 2 parts, without charge when I have it. So that you can still sell the kit." But I haven't received those either and don't expect to. Jiggles, Did you get your new TB yet? Did Matt ask you to return your old one?
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May 6th, 2012, 12:59 PM | #162 | |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
Name: Sean
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And actually Matt sent me a brand new customized ninjette outfitted with the new throttle bodies and a new ECU that takes advantage of his new Wideband O2 sensors, as thanks for setting up the group buy. No I haven't received anything, but I also haven't asked as I'm currently incapable of doing any modifications.
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If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs Last futzed with by Jiggles; May 6th, 2012 at 02:18 PM. |
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May 6th, 2012, 01:00 PM | #163 | |
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For the record, what is said in PM's, stays in PM's. I'm not implicating anything here on anyone involved, but it is in the terms of service to keep private messages between the sender and recipient.
2.2 Quote:
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May 6th, 2012, 01:48 PM | #164 |
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Name: Brian
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What part of the last few posts are about the installation?
@EMSRace07 I think I am going to be lazy and leave the fuel rail pointing forwards. Can you let me know if pointing it downwards works out for you in say 1k miles? I doubt either method will cause any problems. That space is cramped regardless on how we route it. You are running K&N pod filters right? I think we have the exact same setup except I'm on a newgen. Stock exhaust or were you the one with the muzzy? I forget. Btw, think you can send me some of your logs so I can compare with mine? Mainly idle from cold start and some blipping?
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2009 Ninja 250R SE Green Sport Touring Style: ZG ST; Symtec heated grips; RAM GPS w/ mUSB; DIY reshaped seat; DIY Givi E21 Sidecases; 15T sprocket |
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May 6th, 2012, 02:00 PM | #165 | |
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Name: Byron
Location: Reno, NV
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Quote:
and yeah I am running the K&N filters and muzzy full exhaust.
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1990 250F. ex300 motor swap, 15/42 gearing, flush side markers, newgen intergrated front fairing, rear integrated turn signals, DB Touring Bubble, zx600 rear shock, Custom DanMoto Exhaust |
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May 6th, 2012, 02:20 PM | #166 |
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Yea, I get that. I was worried too and then I just looked at the rest of it and thought, meh the way my fuel lines run now is exactly how the carbs used to run, between the carb body and the engine heads. Curved and downwards. Figured if i had issues, I could always change it later. Shouldnt affect performance really. Time to stop talking and go for a ride! We fix this flat spot and we'll be golden. Last issue.
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2009 Ninja 250R SE Green Sport Touring Style: ZG ST; Symtec heated grips; RAM GPS w/ mUSB; DIY reshaped seat; DIY Givi E21 Sidecases; 15T sprocket |
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May 6th, 2012, 02:30 PM | #167 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Byron
Location: Reno, NV
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Quote:
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1990 250F. ex300 motor swap, 15/42 gearing, flush side markers, newgen intergrated front fairing, rear integrated turn signals, DB Touring Bubble, zx600 rear shock, Custom DanMoto Exhaust |
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May 6th, 2012, 03:32 PM | #168 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
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Quote:
For the record, Matt has not sent me any PM's through this board.
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May 7th, 2012, 07:51 PM | #169 |
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Name: Brian
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Just an update to those of you tweaking your installation. If you connect it to procal while the bike is running, check the ignition angle. CrA should be around -7.0 to -10.0 when engine is idling after being warmed up. When cold start, CrA should be closer to +7.0. Priority goes to warm engine settings.
To adjust the idle air, there are two screws (now on the bottom similar to idle mixture screws except it points out towards you on the left side of the bike). Be sure to mark the screw so you know where is one full turn. They are balanced from ecotrons and I'm not sure how to rebalance them if you mess it up. Adjust them exactly the same amount for both each time you adjust. To make the CrA go more negative, turn the screw OUT, counterclockwise. This gives idle MORE air. Vice versa to go the other way. Do a few blips with the throttle to see how it responds and you can also take it for a ride and record the logs during a ride to see how it changes. It's quite fascinating and gives you an idea how all the sensors come together. If I'm incorrect about anything I'm sure Matt will chime to correct me.
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2009 Ninja 250R SE Green Sport Touring Style: ZG ST; Symtec heated grips; RAM GPS w/ mUSB; DIY reshaped seat; DIY Givi E21 Sidecases; 15T sprocket |
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May 10th, 2012, 10:08 AM | #170 |
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@Terminal the extra part needed for the pre-gen is just the fuel-tap gasket from the new-gen correct?
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May 10th, 2012, 10:12 AM | #171 | |
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Name: Gene
Location: Sunderland, MA
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Quote:
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May 10th, 2012, 10:13 AM | #172 |
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Thanks for the tip on that. Only thing I dislike about ordering online is the darn shipping prices...
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May 10th, 2012, 10:23 AM | #173 |
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Name: Gene
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May 10th, 2012, 10:37 AM | #174 |
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May 10th, 2012, 09:49 PM | #175 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Jason
Location: Houston, TX
Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 (sold), '06 Ninja 650R Posts: 455
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@ecotrons - I've got to say, I'm impressed with the modifications to the throttle body. Just got everything installed and Firmware updated. Too bad I won't get to ride it for a couple of days do to heavy rains.
I'd say you are probably as close to a plug and play kit that you can get. |
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May 11th, 2012, 05:32 AM | #177 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Jason
Location: Houston, TX
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Quote:
Longest part for me was actually installing the fuel pump mounting bracket mainly because the fastener alignment was a little off and they wouldn't thread. Fuel pump ended up on a bracket right over the rear shock. |
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May 11th, 2012, 06:08 AM | #178 |
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May 11th, 2012, 09:15 AM | #179 |
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Name: Brian
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On the newgen I did the same thing. The bracket mount right next to the rear shock where the original airbox mounted. It was the only place I could mount it without it being in the way of everything else. I think the tubing actually worked out quite nicely this way. I too have the K&N pod filters as well.
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2009 Ninja 250R SE Green Sport Touring Style: ZG ST; Symtec heated grips; RAM GPS w/ mUSB; DIY reshaped seat; DIY Givi E21 Sidecases; 15T sprocket |
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May 11th, 2012, 09:20 AM | #180 |
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Name: Jason
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On the pregen, there are two bolts that hold the rear wheel well plastics in place. I noticed that I had enough thread engagement to get a piece of aluminum in there. So I made a simple bracket using aluminum angle. Fuel line routing is much better, although I would like to get a different filter to make it even better. The new fuel rail also makes it a much cleaner install.
Without the stock airbox I have about a 1ft cube of open space in front of the battery. I am tempted to make a storage bin for that area. I will try to get a pic tonight. |
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May 12th, 2012, 01:19 PM | #181 |
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I was thinking the same thing. That seems like it might be what I go with once I get a better look at the mounting bracket supplied in the kit. That's out of the way of engine heat like the kit suggests, and is not requiring zipties.
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May 13th, 2012, 08:31 AM | #182 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Jason
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Here is my fuel pump mounting. Looking down from the top, battery is in the top of the frame. I had to bend the angle bracket a little to get access to the head of the bolt.
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May 13th, 2012, 12:59 PM | #183 |
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Alright, I just ordered everything I need to install this kit, I'll be attempting the install starting at the end of the week
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May 13th, 2012, 01:39 PM | #184 |
ninjette.org member
Name: D
Location: NY
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same here, I begin on wednesday, will take some pictures of where I mount my pump
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May 15th, 2012, 10:37 AM | #185 |
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I think I can mount it to the batter box either by itself or with an L bracket. Should be out of the way and out of the heat.
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May 16th, 2012, 09:49 AM | #186 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Zach
Location: Michigan
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Just an update, with the new hardware and software from Ecotrons, I've got my kit running extremely well. I still don't have the O2 sensors installed just to clarify, so I'm running off of the "rich" setting all the time and still creating maps for the "desired lambda" table.
Idle: The idle on the kit with my current calibrations is good, it oscillates a little while in the mid to late warm up phase, but after that the idle is strong and steady. From 3,000 rpm down it drops a little slow, but that's nothing to worry about. The torque even at idle is enough to easily propel me up the driveway at a respectable slope with all my gear on weighing in at approximately 250 pounds. This was a significant change when compared to the carburetors. Start up: Starting up is very easy, normally the engine will fire on the first turn over. I've had some recent issues with the ignition not working while in first gear but I'm sure that's a loose wire somewhere probably on my fault during assembly/disassembly. Warm up: During the early warm up phase (first minute or two of riding) the throttle isn't quite as responsive as when fully warmed up, but predictability is mostly the key during this time as you don't want to be rocketing off at 13k rpm on a cold engine anyway. Mid warm up (3-5 minutes) the throttle becomes more responsive, blipping becomes easier and the slight idle drops decrease. During the later portions of the warm up (from 5 minutes up to normal running temperature) the idle may oscillate a little bit until full temperature is achieved, throttle response and predictability are both excellent. Mid Ride: Zero issues, amazing kit. The smoothness of the power curve on that kind of level was really unexpected. Smooth roll-ons and roll-offs allow you to see that there are absolutely no dips or spikes in the power curve, it's all smooth as silk. On top of that, a little extra power may have been gained through the kit (not sure if it's from changing settings or what, but there definitely was a stronger acceleration pull compared to the older hardware and software). Overall impression: The improvements to the kit are spectacular, ease of installation and the more professional appearance (less hosing, fitting boots etc) definitely add to the kit's success. The performance gains when compared to carburetors are quite immense. One very satisfied customer, especially with the support from Matt at Ecotrons for the time and effort put in through a multitude of emails to get this kit to it's maximum potential. Those willing to take the time to get a basic understanding of the kit and programming will only get that much more satisfaction out of the product knowing that they essentially can control quite literally everything about the engine. Spark advance, air-to-fuel mapping, and volumetric efficiency just to name a few.
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May 17th, 2012, 08:43 AM | #187 |
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@Scattcatt what AFR are you tuned at for various rpm's? That's kinda what I've been wondering. I think most dyno charts that I've been looking at have been tuning to the 13.5 ish range, some even as low as 13. I've heard that if you go above 14, you lose some of the valve cooling effect that rich mixtures have.
Anyhow, just curious as to where your bike is tuned to run at so I can have an idea of where to set up my rich mode desired lambda/whatever once I get my kit installed with O2 sensors. |
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May 17th, 2012, 10:45 AM | #188 |
ninjette.org sage
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Currently the calibration I'm using would ideally tune for 13.0 AFR, but I'm not entirely sure how accurate the AFR is based off of the various sensors and no wideband sensor to get a reading from. Anything in the 13.0 to 13.4 range works well for me though when I'm in a sporty mood
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May 18th, 2012, 06:37 PM | #189 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Byron
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Update for me:
New software fixed all the bugs so everything is good like the old tbs but almost more performance and so far more mpg. Still testing the gas mileage but i saw an increase of 3mpg over the old throttle bodies and alot more performance. I am seeing 70mpg from going up 1300ft of elevation and about 75mpg or more on a flat plain. And elevation changes are all adjusted so no affects when you travel out of town. It self tunes for every case. Performance i have seen it pull pretty nice all the way to red line to 14.5k. NO dips in power, its all linear and alot more tq. I have pods, and full exhaust and the tunning adjust to the parameters of probably any combination within reason. All in all im extremely happy with the kit. Love how the new kit is so much more simple to install. Easy diagnostics. Starts right up, no more chock, more performance. Well worth it, even on my old 1990 bike. I put new gen bikes to shame :P.
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1990 250F. ex300 motor swap, 15/42 gearing, flush side markers, newgen intergrated front fairing, rear integrated turn signals, DB Touring Bubble, zx600 rear shock, Custom DanMoto Exhaust |
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May 25th, 2012, 12:59 PM | #190 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Amy
Location: PA
Join Date: Mar 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R EFI Posts: 58
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Quote:
it seems while my bike is warming up, the idle is steady, but once it's warmed up, it will oscillate from about 1300-1400rpms at set idle up to about 2000rpms and then back down. it will do this continually at idle. i don't know if i'm having an air leak issue or a tuning issue. when i snap the throttle it is a little late in response time almost like it wants to stall but doesn't. i keep thinking i missed something really stupid that's causing the air leak but i can't find it. throttle body is sealed and tight to both engine and air box (i'm using v2.0 throttle body with fuel rail). is there an air line that was originally to the carb setup that i missed that is or isn't supposed to be closed ? when it oscillates my spark drops to almost -13.0 CrA at it's lowest. i'm still using the stock airbox. only mod to it is a removed snorkle. i also have a hmf slip-on. there's one line i have a question about that i don't know should be open or closed. here's a pic. http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7188/7...1bc794bc_b.jpg i've been through a couple different s19, cal, and a2l files and nothing seems to fix it. i use procal v6.9.6. any help would be appreciated or feel free to donate your files. |
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May 25th, 2012, 06:19 PM | #191 | |
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Name: Jason
Location: Norfolk, VA
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May 26th, 2012, 08:39 PM | #192 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Amy
Location: PA
Join Date: Mar 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R EFI Posts: 58
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i went for about an hour and a half test ride yesterday and the bike kinda 'tuned' itself. it's running a lot better and didn't have a single problem during my ride. torque and acceleration definitely improved. starts right up. i'm using the v2.0 throttle body with fuel rail and newly updated ECU with no bugs and the bike runs awesome. the only thing i changed in this kit was replacing the transparent fuel line for high pressure line, actual fuel injection hose clamps, and also got a smaller visu-filter fuel filter. i'm currently using on/off valves at my direct fuel and return lines until i can get some quick disconnects.
i'm very happy with this kit. i purchased this kit before the new v2.0 throttle body but didn't get to ride it with the old throttle body before the new one came out about 2 weeks later, so matt sent me the new version. i DID go through one MAP sensor from fuel contamination with the injectors on the bottom. the new design of the v2.0 throttle body is a great improvement. i was able to reach my throttle cable to left side and no problem at all with MAP contamination since the injectors are mounted on top this time. aside from getting some bungs welded to your exhaust for the O2 sensors and any little minor improvements you may want to do, this kit really is plug and play and not hard to install at all. i think the only trouble i had during the install was finding room for everything like routing fuel lines since there isn't a whole lot of room to work with (08+ anyway), but it can be done. i mounted my fuel pump below the new petcock to avoid fuel starvation and the smaller fuel filter saved room as well. for reassurance, get yourself some fuel injection hose clamps and high pressure fuel line and you're good to go, and don't forget to get either on/off valves or quick disconnects (quick disconnects recommended so it seals on both sides) for your tank fuel lines for easy tank removal. very inexpensive upgrades. matt was also extremely helpful with anything i needed. i'm also the first female to do this install. |
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May 27th, 2012, 04:24 AM | #193 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Brian
Location: Detroit, MI
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@iNinja Yay! I'm glad it's working out for you. I'm loving it as well. Are you still having the idle fluctuation issue? It does it on mine once in a while but it doesnt quite bother me. It's usually pretty stable.
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2009 Ninja 250R SE Green Sport Touring Style: ZG ST; Symtec heated grips; RAM GPS w/ mUSB; DIY reshaped seat; DIY Givi E21 Sidecases; 15T sprocket |
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May 27th, 2012, 07:14 AM | #194 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Matt
Location: MI
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Quote:
The first female that's done the conversion. A college girl ! Now you guys start to make me proud! Thanks for the suggestions on hose clamps and quick disconnects. |
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May 27th, 2012, 07:42 AM | #195 | ||
ninjette.org member
Name: Amy
Location: PA
Join Date: Mar 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R EFI Posts: 58
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Quote:
Quote:
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May 27th, 2012, 04:02 PM | #196 |
ninjette.org member
Name: justin
Location: ocala fl
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 250 ninja Posts: 79
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Can someone tell me on the new fuel rail, are both sides feeds for the injectors, or is one side a return.
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May 27th, 2012, 05:05 PM | #197 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Matt
Location: MI
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 169
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Quote:
Sorry, supposed to broadcast the new TB installation instructions. I will do it in the email then. |
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May 27th, 2012, 05:08 PM | #198 |
ninjette.org member
Name: justin
Location: ocala fl
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 250 ninja Posts: 79
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Cool thanks Matt.
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May 29th, 2012, 06:20 AM | #199 |
ninjette.org member
Name: telecom
Location: Toledo, OH
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250r Posts: 43
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Congrats!
Congrats @iNinja!,
I'm glad that you worked out the initial issues and got it working just fine. Great Job I hope you enjoy your FI bike as much as I did. |
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May 29th, 2012, 06:40 AM | #200 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Amy
Location: PA
Join Date: Mar 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R EFI Posts: 58
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Quote:
i'm definitely loving the conversion! |
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