May 26th, 2010, 11:10 AM | #161 |
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Well someone knew what they were talking about....
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May 26th, 2010, 12:32 PM | #162 |
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I'll try 87 but if it runs worse back to 91!
I already have 9000 miles on 91 octane without any valve adjustment. Still runs great! |
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May 26th, 2010, 01:01 PM | #163 |
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May 26th, 2010, 02:52 PM | #164 |
The Sportisi Master
Name: Matt
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^That it runs fine. Unless you have the perception and thinking only 91. Your mind will click on anything to affirm the thought that 91 is better.
Run 87. Most manufacturer's RON is 91 I do not know why this is other than to keep one type on tap alll the time for the ease of use between testing different models.
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May 26th, 2010, 03:42 PM | #165 |
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More important then octane is additives. All gas comes from the same place, but different gas companies put in different additives to help keep the engine clean and running well. I find I get the best running and gas mileage from Chevron or Shell. It's all in the additives.
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May 26th, 2010, 04:03 PM | #166 |
The Sportisi Master
Name: Matt
Location: Chico
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I seem to get better results with shell on the zx6r. Chevron tweaked their formula recently cause I have tried several different stations and the mileage just isn't like it use to be. Shell has been consistent.
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May 26th, 2010, 04:25 PM | #167 |
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Given the choice I always choose Shell. I am boycoting BP at the moment.
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May 26th, 2010, 05:24 PM | #168 | |
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nb
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May 27th, 2010, 12:27 PM | #169 | |
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May 27th, 2010, 12:40 PM | #170 |
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No, 87 octane is just fine, even here in California. Our gas is permitted to have up to 10% ethanol, but it actually varies based on supplier (and even time of year). Whether it's ethanol or another oxygenate or combination of oxygenates that gets the fuel to its eventual octane rating; that rating truly does represent the behavioral properties of the fuel. 91 will not provide any more performance, will not contain any more energy, just as folks have stated throughout this thread.
I also find a much larger price difference between 87 and 91, at least here in NorCal. It's always at least 20 cents difference, and sometimes as much as 40 cents apart. Not like that's a huge amount of cash for a < 5 gallon tank, but as it provides zero benefit, there's no need to spend even that little amount extra.
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May 27th, 2010, 03:16 PM | #171 | |
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Name: Marc
Location: Crawfordville, Florida
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Quote:
If you don't service your bike at the recommended intervals or slightly beyond, soon you will be having a problem (expensive too), and it has nothing to do with the gas you use. Where do you get that from? Do you really, honestly, believe the higher octane gas is "protecting" your valves so they don't have to be adjusted? I wouldn't buy your bike when you're done with it, it's going to need a lot of work. And you need to do a little homework other than on here and read up about octane, and read up about why these bikes need valve adjustments. Don't spout off about stuff you don't know about and give out bad advice. |
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May 27th, 2010, 03:20 PM | #172 |
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I'm not sure that he was giving bad advice, he was only sharing his experiences with it. I do hope that that he has the valves checked at some point soon as well to confirm that all is well, as the octane level probably didn't do much to affect it one way or another.
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May 28th, 2010, 01:03 AM | #173 |
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From another forum......
It isn't E85... E85 is 85% Ethanol and 15% Petrol. What Maxol are selling is E5, which is 5% Ethanol and 95% Petrol. Adding 99 RON to an engine that's designed to run on 95 RON will make absolutely no difference to power output or MPG. The RON rating has nothing at all to do with the output power, it's a measure of how the fuel reacts in the engine at different compression ratios and a few other factors... basically, it's a measure of what point the engine starts suffering from knocking/pinking/pre-ignition. The only important numbers are the ones that tell you how much energy the fuel contains, that's basically the amount of hydrocarbons and like what we eat, it's measured in calories. One litre of Maxol 95 RON Unleaded has a calorific value of 31 MJ. One litre of Maxol 99 RON E5 has a calorific value of 30.51 MJ. To make it simple, that means that if you're getting 31 mpg on regular Maxol petrol, you'll get 30.51 mpg on E5 so the fact that it's 99 RON makes no difference if it's used in an engine designed/set up to run on 95 RON. The only way it will make a difference is if you raise the compression of the engine and/or alter the ignition timing. That's the only way you'll benefit from a higher RON.
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May 28th, 2010, 09:48 AM | #174 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Leo
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Quote:
Regards to octane, why we need 87. Think our bikes lack torque due to small cylinder displacement and always in the higher revs. And maybe the the cylinder heads run cooler due to better heat disipation. It doesn't have a knock sensor to retard the timing so if it is not knocking you shouldn't need higher octane. Thing is once carbon starts to develop in the combustion chamber that could increase the compression ratio enough to cause knock. As well as very high ambient temps of summer. At that point maybe go a grade higher in gas. So what do you think of my thoughts here. BTW you are very lucky you get the adjust your valves just by loosening your locknut and just turn a screw. Reason why a lot of us are putting it off and relying on other reports of how their clearance was at the first 7500 interval. Based on this info, we think we can go at least 12000 before actually need it. Power to you! |
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May 28th, 2010, 11:41 AM | #175 |
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I ran 87 when I had the 250.
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May 30th, 2010, 08:18 AM | #176 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Leo
Location: Monterey Park, CA in SoCal/SGV
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I do know all the facts but still reluctant to put 87 octane! Maybe someone
who uses 87 can try 91 and see if there is any difference! |
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May 30th, 2010, 09:01 AM | #177 |
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Name: Kevin
Location: Illinois
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87 straight gas here..no ethonal....runs like a champ. Buy the expensive stuff with ethanol in it if it makes you feel better. Your better off to spend the extra coin on straight gas if your looking for a LITTLE better performance.
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May 30th, 2010, 09:11 AM | #178 |
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Name: Simen
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Using 95, always been. Simply because 98 isnt necessary. No other choices in Norway. They stopped selling 92 octane many years ago.
I've simply stopped filling at Shell, they dont sell regular 95 anymore..just this "fuelsaving super 95" crap. no thank you. |
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June 3rd, 2010, 09:44 AM | #179 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Eric
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Here in Utah with the higher altitude, they sell 85 octane at the pumps. Should I be using that instead of 87?
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June 3rd, 2010, 09:53 AM | #180 | |
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Quote:
LOL I found myself struggling with one of those the other day, goddamn I was confused! (I was up north) |
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June 3rd, 2010, 10:13 AM | #181 | |
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Quote:
Put in some 85 and see how it goes. If you notice that the engine starts to ping (knock) then put in some 87 to see if it goes away. If it goes away then you know that 87 is needed. I've had no problems with 85 and I usually run 85, because I get cheap gas at costco (Costco only has 85 and 91 here in Utah).
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June 3rd, 2010, 10:19 AM | #182 | |
Psychic war veteran
Name: Thomas
Location: Norfolk, VA
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Quote:
Around here, we have 87, 89, and 93 octane. ALL of it has 10% alcohol in it. I did a 1500 mile comparisson with my 08 right after I got it and shimmed the needles, put a K&N air filter in it, and added a TBR slip on. That was all pretty much right after I got it. I had heard all sorts of claims, so I wanted to see for myself. Conditions were about sea level, March-May, MidAtlantic area. I filled up from empty (mostly darn near fumes left in the tank) as often as possible, usually from gas jugs at home, to ensure that I was as near empty as possible. I did 500 miles with each octane, alternating between each grade of gas with each tank to spread around the differences in weather and riding use (commute or sport back roads) for that week or whatever. When it was all said and done, the difference in mileage per gallon was statistically insignificant, I think like less than 1mpg overall, with an extreme spread of just a few miles per gallon within each octane rating and across the three octane ratings as a whole sample group. After that, I stopped tracking it and didn't care any more, just kept using 87. Subjectively, though, I'm SURE that I went faster with 93 octane, but only because my wallet was lighter and my bike was green!!! During that time, the only gas that I used was from Wawa (mostly from one particular station), so it was about as generic a brand as you could get. For the remainder of the 6K+ miles that I put on the bike I just used 87 from wherever I was at the time, never had any issues at all. Unless you've done something to the bike that substatively changes the compression ratio or timing, fill it with 87, ride it like you stole it, and go on to worry about more important things in life.
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June 3rd, 2010, 11:47 AM | #183 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Eric
Location: SLC, UT
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Quote:
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June 3rd, 2010, 11:53 AM | #184 |
ninjette.org dude
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This may be correct (10% ethanol), but the rating at the pump is the end result. I.E. 85 doesn't mean a "true 87" because of ethanol content. AFAIK, the 85 (RON + MON / 2) is the actual rating of that gasoline, which takes into account whatever was used to get the octane rating to that particular measurement.
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June 3rd, 2010, 12:49 PM | #185 | |
Psychic war veteran
Name: Thomas
Location: Norfolk, VA
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Quote:
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June 3rd, 2010, 01:08 PM | #186 | |
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Quote:
Altitude affects octane requirements. I was just explaining the type of gas we have available here in Utah and the properties of ethanol. (sorry if my statement was misleading).
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June 3rd, 2010, 01:13 PM | #187 |
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Yep.
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June 3rd, 2010, 01:25 PM | #188 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Quote:
Have you ever heard an old engine that has problems with "Dieseling"? (Where you turn the engine off and it keeps going off pace for a few revs). It sounds really similar to that, but a little bit more rythmical. Listen to your engine well before putting in 85. If you notice a difference, then that difference might be what you're looking for. I'd bet that you won't notice a difference. Like I said, I have not had any problems with 85 Octane.
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June 3rd, 2010, 02:06 PM | #189 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Marc
Location: Crawfordville, Florida
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That's what they sell there because that's what works. You do NOT have a high compression engine which needs a higher octane. If it runs well, with no pinging, then that's what you use. There is some obsession with the word "octane" meaning better, and that is not the case. And if your bike is pinging, a higher octane may stop it, but that's masking some other problem because this engine is designed to run on regular low octane fuel.
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September 24th, 2010, 08:39 PM | #190 |
ninjette.org member
Name: b
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all this time i have been using 91. what a read thanks ninjette!
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September 24th, 2010, 11:15 PM | #191 |
Small Bike Abuser
Name: Stevo
Location: Seattle Wa
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Back in '85? The Environmental Protection Agency forced a large chunk of the lead in gasoline to be removed (lead removal actually started in 1975). At the time I was riding a KZ1000K2 that loved premium...Union 76 92 Octane to be exact. After the lead levels dropped the mighty KZ started pinging under a load (loud and audible) and the performance level dropped off significantly. The bike had an 85 Mph speedo and fixed engine timing (I threw the 85 Mph speedo thing in just because that was mandated by the government too). Anywho to fix the pinging I had to slot the stator plate to retard the fixed timing to get the KZ to run on the new fuel without pinging. This degraded the already degraded performance even more. In the end I just sold the Kawasaki.
Moral of the story...be thankful, be very thankful that all current bikes run fine on Regular
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September 25th, 2010, 10:32 AM | #192 | |
Moroccan Gold Imports
Name: RJ
Location: MT
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): '03 ZX9R, '03 ZX7R & wife's '09 250R Posts: 136
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Quote:
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September 25th, 2010, 04:59 PM | #193 |
Internet Slut
Name: Jeff
Location: L.A.
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I run 87 in mine, when I first got it I wa using 91 then did the research in to what the numbers are how they get them and what they do. I switched to the 87 and honestly feel the bike performs better with it and is more responsive thought that just could be mental.
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September 25th, 2010, 07:58 PM | #194 |
super ninja
Name: TJ
Location: Sacramento
Join Date: Feb 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 kawasaki 250r Posts: 127
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I use 91 octane only from chevron with techron haha lol but yeah if i can't find a chevron shell would suffice for the gallon until i can find a chevron station lol
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September 25th, 2010, 08:37 PM | #195 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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September 26th, 2010, 02:18 AM | #196 |
super ninja
Name: TJ
Location: Sacramento
Join Date: Feb 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 kawasaki 250r Posts: 127
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Jeez i just read it and i'll start using reg. instead of premium, the funny thing is is that when i first bought it from THE DEALERSHIP!!! the guy said i needed to use 91 octane and i asked him twice to make sure lol welp just goes to show never trust the stealership lol thanks kkim
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September 26th, 2010, 02:42 AM | #197 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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well, I think the dealership might be confused by the sticker that kawi uses on the bike which says to use 91 RON (sold in other countries) which is the equivalent of 87 PON gas we have here in the states.
enjoy the savings from using the 87 octane gas. |
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October 6th, 2010, 10:41 AM | #198 |
Moroccan Gold Imports
Name: RJ
Location: MT
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): '03 ZX9R, '03 ZX7R & wife's '09 250R Posts: 136
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Doesn't higher octane gas burn cleaner? Or is it that it burns hotter? Either way, I will be putting the highest octane at the pump in everything I own, short of my craftsman mower.
Not that I am saying you guys are wrong. Maybe I am wasting my money putting 91+ in the 250, but we're talking about a difference of less than $1 per tank. |
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October 6th, 2010, 10:56 AM | #199 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Jason
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
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Quote:
Yep your wrong... 91+ will not ignite as easily so a higher compression engine can come to full compression before pre-igniting preventing spark knock. I'm sure it won't hurt the ninja but it is wasting as you say "$1 per tank" X's each fillup X's all the fillups in a year X's all the years you own it.
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October 6th, 2010, 11:12 AM | #200 | |
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