DIY Shimming the carb needles.

[kkim]

lol... I didn't post it!

next mod should be removing the kleen system to get rid of the popping.

congrats on a job well done.

[hieuster]

Oops sorry! Thanks Viper-Byte for posting this DIY and thanks Kelly and others for the advice. Is it bad for the bike to have the popping sound? It doesn't really bother me much, but if it's something that can harm the bike, then I'll consider doing the Kleen System mod.

[Viper-Byte]

Ha ha ha, its all good Danny.

I have the popping sound, but since I installed a jetkit, it has not been as bad as when I just shimmed. IMO if it is not that bad and is occasional then it is fine.

[Jiu Jitsu Player]

I'm finally taking the plunge and doing this mod this weekend. I was going to wait until I get my exhaust, but Kkim's DIYs have motivated me to go ahead and tackle this and adjust later when I get the exhaust.

[kkim]

rough guess... with the snorkel pulled and stock exhaust, try 2 washers under each needle. if your bike is cold blooded now, you'll love the change.

[paterick4o8]

Chris, you may already read but careful for the black screws, they can strip the easiest

this is me screwing them back on.. you can see the bottom left screw is a bit warm out.. it was originally from the top right corner where it's harder to reach the screws, but decided to relocated it to the bottom left for ease

[kkim]

if they get that bad, consider changing them out with Allen head screws.

[SteveL]

Has anyone who has done the shimming of the carb needles put the bike on a dynamometer before and after to see what the difference was? Making the mixture richer will give a better initial acceleration (cars with carbs had an acceleration pump to richen the mixture when you put your foot down) but anything but the correct mixture will give less power so anyone done it.

Steve

[kawi_cj]

do u need to do both carbs
or just the right side 1??

[kkim]

both

[kawi_cj]

k thank kkim
u r the man
any ? i got
u got the anser thanks

[Jiu Jitsu Player]

I'm off tommorrow and I'm pretty stoked about doing this mod. Can't wait to see the improved performance.

[Nemy]

Originally Posted by kazam58

If you have a way of catching any debris by covering up everything surrounding the stripped screw head then cut into the head and make a deep slot with a Dremel cutting bit (I'm assuming it's a buttonhead, I've never looked at the carbs myself) and then use a flathead to unscrew it. I've used this trick even on threadlocked screws, works well.

OMG thank you for this post!! When I first read it, it sounded like a great idea. Today it just saved me from ripping out the carbs!! The one screw on the left carb would not come out for the life of me, then got stripped to high hell . Dremel and a flathead - done in 1 minute

Now I just have to test out the shim - smallest washers (couldn't find any metric 3mm ) But I'd wake everyone up if I tested it now

And that white piece on the end of the spring... is the washer supposed to be able to fit inside it aswell? If so, then I think the washers I got are equivalent to 4mm

[Jiu Jitsu Player]

I've heard about the screw headaches so today I'm picking up a JIS screwdriver specifically for this!

[B2FiNiTY]

If I plan on running a full exhaust and removed intake snorkel, will shimming be enough to get my bike running decent? obviously not as good as a rejetting but will it be enough? I'm debating a slip on versus complete system because of this.

[kkim]

shimming should be fine. I had the full AP system, the snorkel pulled, but with the airbox still installed and running 3 washers under each needle. Bike ran great and would be happy if I had stopped there with the intake mods.

Once I removed the airbox, rejetting made more sense as I had the bike disassembled anyway.

my recommendation... don't half ass it... get a full exhaust system and shim accordingly to tune the bike.

[Nemy]

She's finally done! Thanks to viper for the DIY, kkim for the nekkidness and snorkel, and kazam for the stripped screw idea.

Took me a good couple hours over two days. But I blame the stripped screw and freakishly difficult positioning of the carb screws

But in the end, 3 washer each with snorkel removed. CRAZY difference. I was afraid the change was all hyped up, but you CAN feel it basically everytime you accelerate. Before I'd have to wait till 6k rpm to feel the bulk of the torque, now it's clean all through the revs!

[Viper-Byte]

No problem Tim, glad you like that change I was surprised at the difference at first too.

[Nemy]

so after I put everything together, I go for a more spirited test ride... the exhaust note has changed for the worse is that because of the snorkel or the shims? Cause, I'd want to change it back

And like lurkable, the engine bogs down from around 10k up. That indicates it needs more washers?

[Viper-Byte]

The note change is te snorkel removal. Have you only removed the snorkal and all else is stock? Try taking a washer out of each carb so there is only 2 and try that. My bike was happy with 2 washers and snorkel removed.

[Jiu Jitsu Player]

It seems that 3mm washers are a bit hard to find. I went to about 4 different hardware stores and nowhere had any. I found some #5 washers that the guy measured and said should work, but who knows. They look like they might and since I got 8 of them for about a dime i figured why not. The only place left to check is Home Depot. I'll try the #5's before I head over there.

[kkim]

if it's bogging, you may be too rich. take one shim out or go back to stock if you prefer.

[kkim]

as for the washers....

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Washers_for_carb_needles

[paterick4o8]

Originally Posted by Jiu Jitsu Player

It seems that 3mm washers are a bit hard to find. I went to about 4 different hardware stores and nowhere had any. I found some #5 washers that the guy measured and said should work, but who knows. They look like they might and since I got 8 of them for about a dime i figured why not. The only place left to check is Home Depot. I'll try the #5's before I head over there.

try an electronics store like maybe best buy, fry's, radio shack, etc. I found my 3mm washers at one. just call before you go and ask if they have any, if you want to save time and gas.

[Jiu Jitsu Player]

Thanks guys. Kelly you must be sick and tired of hearing that you're the man but...YOU'RE THE MAN!

[Nemy]

thanks guys. I'm gonna try to get the snorkel back in (still trying atm - quite hard to do actually ) and see. Then I'll go back to two if need be.

[kkim]

yes, the snorkel is not easy to get back in completely, so don't feel bad, but you don't need to get it in perfect... just get it in there for now the best you can and see how the bike runs. if it's worse at 10K, you're too rich w/ 3 washers as the snorkel will cut down the the amount of air getting in there. if it improves... you might have entirely different problem, but report back after you get the snorkel back in and have had a chance to run up the bike.

[Nemy]

ok reporting in!

$#@%@#%$! the snorkel was hard to get in. I tried till my fingers were numb then gave up and shaved some of the sides, tied a rope through the middle and pried and pulled like never before So atleast I got my exhaust sound back

It did seem to bog more now at 10k. So I'll be switching it up to 2 washers tomorrow and testing. My fault for getting greedy (it was a little hesitant with 2 washers and snorkel out before) so now I gotta get her naked allll over again

but I want to confirm my washers... I'm pretty sure they're not fitting INSIDE the white plastic holder in the spring... are they supposed to? Cause the spring ends up being way too big and warped when I put the cover back on.

[kkim]

what size washers are you using? what did it say on the packaging?

[Viper-Byte]

I had the problem where the washers were too big and didn't fit inside the white spring holder and when I reved it she would bog down and almost stall. Found that the needles were able to move up and down freely and were vibrating up and down...

[kkim]

yeah, that's why I'm trying to find out exactly what size washers he's using.

[Viper-Byte]

Originally Posted by kkim

yeah, that's why I'm trying to find out exactly what size washers he's using.

[kkim]

Okay, do your washers look like these on the needle??





or do they look like these??

[Nemy]

They're definitely more like the first picture which I guess are 4 mm? From what it looks like, they don't fit in the white fixture so if that caused problems for you I'll have to replace them. Wierd thing is the bike runs fine, just at high revs like Lurkable... and he said he added another washer to fix it

[kkim]

yep, that first picture is Viper Byte's when the 4mm washers he had did not work. You need to find 3mm metric sized washers or #4 US sized washers.

[Viper-Byte]

Yes, those are 4mm ones in the top pic, replaced em with 3mm and no more problems

[Jiu Jitsu Player]

Ok just shimmed with 2 washers and took her for a test spin. Got up to 2nd gear and everything was running good. I started downshifting as I got to the stop sign at the end of my street and while idling at the stop sign the bike died out. I restarted it and was revving the engine but the revs never got above 3k. It died out and then I restarted and the same thing happened about 2 more times. Finally after restarting I was able to get going in 1st, then shifted up to 2nd, then 3rd, then parked it in the driveway. Any ideas what's wrong?

[kkim]

first, readjust your idle speed with the idle speed knob so it will idle.

also, are you sure you hooked up alll the vacuum lines?

[Jiu Jitsu Player]

yeah I double checked. I just took it out for another test and when I start out everything is cool. When I try to come out from a full stop in 1st it never gets above 2k. Even if I open the throttle all the way up. After I restart it about once or twice and rev the engine, the revs eventually go up like they're supposed to and I can let out the clutch and take off. I set the idle and checked the vacuum lnes. I'll check everything agian right now.

[kkim]

what size washers are you using?