Occupy Wall Street

[ally99]

Originally Posted by sombo

Personally I don't like either side cause neither side really works for the people anymore. Instead they both work for the lobbyists who in turn work for the top 1% and could give a damn about how hard you work to scrape together some form of living as long as they get 1000x more than you for less work.

Ahh! Words of erudition!

[CynicalC]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

do what they ask then and leave. If my son doesnt do what I ask he is disciplined. same thing here. There are rules in my house and there are rules in this country, breaking them has consequences. When the lower level consequences dont work, time outs/tickets harsher penalties are enacted. My son gets a pop on the bottom, unruly protesters defying the law, and interrupting everyday life get tear gas and rubber bullets. Its a shame it has to come to that, but if they can be mature adults and be respectful of the laws of the land it wouldnt have to.

Im not for police brutality. They are here to protect and serve. They are now protecting everyone whos not protesting and whos every day life is being interrupted.

How can you not be disgusted by your own words? I wouldn't be able to type what you just did without throwing up on my keyboard. Yes great attitude. Just do as you're told. Keep your head down. Never question anything and nobody gets hurt.

Originally Posted by massacremasses

I find that more quite a bit more disturbing dumbasses getting tear gassed and shot with NONLETHAL rubber bullets...

I'm glad you put NONLETHAL in all caps to emphasize it. Too bad it won't help the guy in a coma read it any better.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by CynicalC

How can you not be disgusted by your own words? I wouldn't be able to type what you just did without throwing up on my keyboard. Yes great attitude. Just do as you're told. Keep your head down. Never question anything and nobody gets hurt.





I'm glad you put NONLETHAL in all caps to emphasize it. Too bad it won't help the guy in a coma read it any better.

Are you serious? I can't tell.

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by CynicalC

How can you not be disgusted by your own words? I wouldn't be able to type what you just did without throwing up on my keyboard. Yes great attitude. Just do as you're told. Keep your head down. Never question anything and nobody gets hurt.

well pretty easily.

But its pretty easy to just take what Ive read and twist it. And apparently you have not read ANYTHING else Ive seen (you can mock my caps all you want, that's pointless and counter productive,but go ahead. There are times to do what you're told and times to fight. Im all for protesting however the manner which it was done was starting to become a not just a nuisance but actually affect others and their daily lives which is unfair to them.

Nice 1984 reference btw.. lol you really believe in big brother eh?

If I told you what I really think about how the world is ran and who is in power, I might surprise you. I dont believe any party is in real control, nor do I believe we are. Ill leave that alone.

However I do think there is a possibility for change but the jackasses protesting on wallstreet are not protesting the right things or the right reasons.

there are some people on wall street id like to be gone, and there are some people in the govt. as well, but they are all in it together. but anyways I digress. You believe what you want.


I'm glad you put NONLETHAL in all caps to emphasize it. Too bad it won't help the guy in a coma read it any better.[/QUOTE]

pretty sure that was a baton, not a rubber bullet. Edit* I stand corrected...

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Are you serious? I can't tell.

unfortunately he was...

[shiroganeshinobi]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

However I do think there is a possibility for change but the jackasses protesting on wallstreet are not protesting the right things or the right reasons.

What are they protesting that isnt the right things or reasons? There a many "minor reasons" slopped in but there are key main arguments.

I dare and challenge you OWS nonbelievers to read this.

Dear tea party, we are not your enemy

Despite everyone's negative attacks against each other, you have to really see that we're all on the same side. The best criticism to understand our flaws is outside of what and who you know. Attack the belief not the person. Arent we all Ninjette riders?

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by shiroganeshinobi

What are they protesting that isnt the right things or reasons? There a many "minor reasons" slopped in but there are key main arguments.

I dare and challenge you OWS nonbelievers to read this.

Dear tea party, we are not your enemy

Despite everyone's negative attacks against each other, you have to really see that we're all on the same side. The best criticism to understand our flaws is outside of what and who you know. Attack the belief not the person. Arent we all Ninjette riders?

Thirty years ago, the average CEO made 40 times as much as the average worker. That means those CEOs were taking home $400,000 for every $10,000 their workers made. That seems like a lot, doesn't it?

Today, the average CEO makes 200 times what his workers are making. He takes home $2 million for every $10,000 that a worker makes. Does that mean CEOs have gotten 5 times better while workers stayed the same? Hardly. The failure rate of companies is no better than it's ever been. In fact, it's worse, so CEOs are not making golden decisions. On the other hand, worker productivity is way, way up in America. Workers are actually working harder, working longer, and contributing a lot more value to their companies than they did 30 years ago. They're just not getting a share in the profits. The guys at the top are taking it all. CEOs didn't get better. They just learned that they could buy enough political cover to take all the cash. That way, it didn't matter if they did a good job.

His entire argument comes down to, "he makes more money than me boo-hoo"

Get educated and get a job.

[sombo]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

His entire argument comes down to, "he makes more money than me boo-hoo"

Get educated and get a job.

Love how people take things to mean what they want them to mean. I'm educated and I have a job, does that make a crybaby slacker for not accepting the system as it currently works? Thanks for being ignorant and assuming you are better than us.

My point in all this that the corporations that control the market and in turn control the distribution of wealth have been abusing the people that do a majority of the work (aka labor) for them to be successful. When you look back, the average CEO pay back in the 1970's was about 74% higher than the laborers. Since then it has risen to over 300% higher than the laborers. While that was happening they've been scaling back benefits, sending jobs overseas, paying less taxes, requiring more work load and longer hours on laborers w/o equal compensation. Then they have also used their power over the government to manipulate the laws to benefit them more than the laborers. It's not about a "oh boo hoo he makes more than me" crybaby crap like you put it. It's about keeping things fair, and the playing field level instead of constantly tipping things in their favor to slowly turn the US work force into slave labor.

I guess maybe you're ok with corporations scaling back work forces but not work load, sending jobs overseas to lower labor cost but increasing the prices of their goods, reducing benefits for the laborers, giving that labor force between 1-3% annual raise while voting as much as a 28% raise for selves including big bonuses for doing virtually nothing. Or how about the severance packages they give CEO's who made big mistakes that hurt the company by millions but then send the piss poor CEO off with a $10million gift for screwing up the company. If all this sounds good to you then by all means keep supporting the current system instead of supporting change for the good of the laborers.

Why not take a little bit of your own advice and educate yourself on what's really going on instead of just assuming you know everything. You might be surprised at what you find out.

[shiroganeshinobi]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

His entire argument comes down to, "he makes more money than me boo-hoo"

Get educated and get a job.

You missed this paragraph, I guess you couldnt finish reading the editorial. If something strikes you as off or wrong, just make a mental note and keep reading.

You know what really scares those guys? They're afraid you'll remember. They're afraid you'll remember that the nation isn't supposed to belong to them. They're afraid you'll realize that they are not the job creators. You are. It's the average folks, the 99%, who create demand. Demand creates jobs. As long as all the money sits stagnant at the top, there will be no demand.

It's funny you mention get educated, when there are rising costs for higher education but that is another story. So despite the graphs and charts with hard data showing rise of CEO pay vs middle class income, you still think they are justly compensated? Like the quote says, we drive the economy. When we have money to spend, it creates profit which can create jobs. When we dont have money to spend, profits fall. When wealth flows to the top AND nothing trickles down, you HAVE to realize there is a problem. You also think that they should lower our wages to keep this bonuses as well? It's been happening, it's not made up. My company is doing this and I'll probably look to jump ship next year.

People will continue not to believe OWS until they are precariously put into the same position. It's essentially the "F*ck you, I got mine" attitude" that destroys us as a society.

And here's today amusing OWS video. I thought you had to always put a source address with business envelopes?

Link to original page on YouTube.

[CynicalC]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

There are times to do what you're told and times to fight. Im all for protesting however the manner which it was done was starting to become a not just a nuisance but actually affect others and their daily lives which is unfair to them.

You keep spouting that "they are a nuisance and they're affecting other peoples daily lives." Well, tell me how.

Originally Posted by massacremasses

Nice 1984 reference btw.. lol you really believe in big brother eh?

Believe in big brother? Uhm, I'm not sure you've read the book (or seen the movie) but if you have, you missed the point. In fact what I believe is that we live in a much scarier place than Orwell ever could have written. Huxley nailed it though.

If I told you what I really think about how the world is ran and who is in power, I might surprise you. I dont believe any party is in real control, nor do I believe we are. Ill leave that alone.

Let me guess, some Free Mason something or another? Fine, I'll leave that alone too.

However I do think there is a possibility for change but the jackasses protesting on wallstreet are not protesting the right things or the right reasons.

What should they be protesting then?

there are some people on wall street id like to be gone, and there are some people in the govt. as well, but they are all in it together. but anyways I digress.

Actually that's exactly what these protests are about and what we should be discussing here, so by all means carry on with your digression...

pretty sure that was a baton, not a rubber bullet.

"Two Time Iraq Vet Marine Corporal Scott Olsen in Coma, Skull Fractured by Police Projectile in Oakland"

Why would you say "it was a baton" as if that makes it ok? It doesn't. Whether they protesters are "breaking the rules" or not, they are non-violent. What makes it ok to use such extreme violence against these people?

[Jiggles]

If you don't like the way a company is run then don't buy their products and don't invest in them. Take your money to a company that is run in a way you agree with.

And no I haven't done much research on the OWS movement, I don't have time to, school, work, and motorcycling consume my life. I really don't think much change is going to come from this whole fiasco.

[Outlander Systems]

Originally Posted by almost40

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...965745362.html

Douglas Schoen, a veteran Democratic Party pollster who has also worked for Mayor Michael Bloomberg, sent a researcher from his polling firm down to Zuccotti Park last week to conduct what appears to be the very first professional survey of the protesters in New York. The face-to-face interviews with 198 people.

I am supposed to beLIEve something the Wall Street Journal posts on this subject? Laughable.

[shiroganeshinobi]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

If you don't like the way a company is run then don't buy their products and don't invest in them. Take your money to a company that is run in a way you agree with.

And no I haven't done much research on the OWS movement, I don't have time to, school, work, and motorcycling consume my life. I really don't think much change is going to come from this whole fiasco.

We're talking about the ability to purchase goods to drive the economy not where we want to spend our money.
Here's a good quote by Nouriel Roubini

Companies, Roubini said, are motivated to minimize costs, to save and stockpile cash, but this leads to less money in the hands of employees, which means they have less money to spend and flow back to companies.

Now, in the current financial crisis, consumers, in addition to having less money to spend due to the above, are also motivated to minimize costs, to save and stockpile cash, magnifying the effect of less money flowing back to companies.

People are already realizing Credit Unions are a better alternative to big banks due to OWS exposure. I personally use NFCU, but I would suggest USAA if you can. My coworker uses it and they pay for his ATM withdrawl fees.

So you would rather take your news from your standard mainstream media sources than to take the arguments presented, put together the picture and decide for yourself. Gotcha.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by shiroganeshinobi

We're talking about the ability to purchase goods to drive the economy not where we want to spend our money.
Here's a good quote by Nouriel Roubini


People are already realizing Credit Unions are a better alternative to big banks due to OWS exposure. I personally use NFCU, but I would suggest USAA if you can. My coworker uses it and they pay for his ATM withdrawl fees.

So you would rather take your news from your standard mainstream media sources than to take the arguments presented, put together the picture and decide for yourself. Gotcha.

I'm with you on credit unions. If it wasn't for them I wouldn't be in school this semester. I'm planning on moving all of my accounts over to the CEFCU from Wellsfargo. Charge me $5 a month to use my checking account? Well then you can suck it (this is an example of not supporting a company you disagree with )

And I don't really watch news much, although Fox News is constantly on in my house since my dad is an ultra conservative sarah palin no gay marriage blah blah unimportant crap, guy. The one thing I have to say about Fox News is that they are incredibly boring and uninformative. They talk about the exact same thing every damn day. They take about one day's worth of news and talk about it over a month. And what is up with Hannity throwing a football after every segment? That's just dumb

So yes I'm a rather uninformed and ignorant person. Any time I have spent on a computer is either doing homework or chattin it up on ninjette Any extra time I have to sit down and watch TV, I spend it catching up on shows on my DVR rather than watching the news

Ya know, I'm not even 100% sure why the OWS movement is taking place. I do have a general hazy idea but not much specifics. If anyone cares to enlighten me that would be cool. Try to boil it down to a paragraph saying: People are protesting because of X, X and X. They want to change X, X and X and hope to do so by doing X, X and X.

Back to studying for me

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by CynicalC

You keep spouting that "they are a nuisance and they're affecting other peoples daily lives." Well, tell me how.

Believe in big brother? Uhm, I'm not sure you've read the book (or seen the movie) but if you have, you missed the point. In fact what I believe is that we live in a much scarier place than Orwell ever could have written. Huxley nailed it though.

Let me guess, some Free Mason something or another? Fine, I'll leave that alone too.

What should they be protesting then?

Actually that's exactly what these protests are about and what we should be discussing here, so by all means carry on with your digression...



"Two Time Iraq Vet Marine Corporal Scott Olsen in Coma, Skull Fractured by Police Projectile in Oakland"

Why would you say "it was a baton" as if that makes it ok? It doesn't. Whether they protesters are "breaking the rules" or not, they are non-violent. What makes it ok to use such extreme violence against these people?

SERIOUSLY? how are they affecting other people? by going in banks when people are trying to do business, when they are blocking business's hurting shop owners and their sales. come on dude.

and yeah Ive read 1984, (and Brave New World and that is even more an unlikely future. )who hasnt. I did see the movie randomly on netflix as well. to compare our world with theirs wouldn't be far off but again for other reasons.

what should they be protesting?: Protest the govt. bail outs. and protest those who gave the bailouts. Set your sights on every politician who agreed to it. vote for people who will change policies. The OWS already has such a negative vibe that no matter how much you defend it, it will never really be taken seriously... so keep at it. I dont care.

as for the guy who got put in a coma, thats unfortunate. "Two Time Iraq Vet Marine Corporal Scott Olsen in Coma, Skull Fractured by Police Projectile in Oakland" I love how they make sure to tell hes a war Vet. Good for him. Its unfortunate he got hit with a rubber bullet. He;s military though, he should know better... when you are told to disperse. do it.

force is necessary when no alternative is possible. How many times did they change the deadline to be out? more than once... Im not advocating breaking skulls, to say such a thing is absurd.

Im not going to respond to you anymore if you dont tone it down as well. I get excited to, but I havent directed it towards anyone in specific. So if you want to continue that ill just ignore you and continue talking about it with everyone else.

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by shiroganeshinobi

People are already realizing Credit Unions are a better alternative to big banks due to OWS exposure. I personally use NFCU, but I would suggest USAA if you can. My coworker uses it and they pay for his ATM withdrawl fees.

I agree with supporting your local credit union but I dont think the OWS movement helped that (lol movement I find that laughable)

Credit Unions = best

[Samer]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Ya know, I'm not even 100% sure why the OWS movement is taking place. I do have a general hazy idea but not much specifics. If anyone cares to enlighten me that would be cool. Try to boil it down to a paragraph saying: People are protesting because of X, X and X. They want to change X, X and X and hope to do so by doing X, X and X.

I certainly cannot speak for OWS. However, I can try to summarize it in one paragraph:

In the past few decades, but especially the past decade, the wealth distribution in this country has shifted and accelerated dramatically towards the top (1%). Part of the reason for this is natural and is due to technology and globalization. However, a very large part of this is due to corporate control of both parties of our Government. For a glaringly clear example of this look at Goldman Sacks (Sucks), and specifically, the guarantees they got from our Government during the 2008 financial crisis which they were involved in creating. Another example, GE paid no taxes last year. A third example, tax subsidies (welfare) to oil companies while they make record profits. People in the middle class are being squeezed and they feel that the Government is no longer looking out for their interests. Corporations are sitting on huge amounts of cash right now, but they aren't spending it. Why? partly because there is no market for goods and services (middle class is broke). The idea of tax cuts for these corporations or for the wealthy spurring economic growth flies in the face of reality. The 'trickle down' economics theory has been debunked. Yet any talk of modest tax increases on the wealthy and the right will cry fowl. They never use the words 'rich' or 'wealthy'. They only say 'job creator'. Well, the 'job creators' are the wealthiest they've ever been in the history of the United States. Where are all these jobs?

[sombo]

There are a few problems with your ideas Justin. The protesters are there to bring awareness to where our politics seems to put it's main focus on; the lobbyists of Wall Street. Many of the Occupy movements are being done in front of legislative buildings or as close to them as they can get. They are calling out to the people, and to the government to listen to them instead of Wall Street, sort of like standing in front of the big mouth and trying to have an even bigger mouth to get the attention. Their main goal is to actually get our country back and take Wall Street out of politics. Right now our government caters to the lobbyists of Wall Street and their big money instead of catering to the people. That's what this is all about.

As for the vet that is in a coma. He was hit in the head with a smoke canister fired from a grenade launcher by police firing it into the crowds from down the street. They were doing this because the local government CHANGED the rules so that the protesters were NOW in violation when they weren't before. This is happening in several places where the local governments are scrambling to make secret changes to city ordinances that actually are designed to prevent people from exercising they constitutional rights and then having police immediately enforce them with as little warning and as much force as possible.

When they are not doing that they are using sneaky tactics to break the movements up and also lying to the press about how things are being handled. I have had direct contact with the movement here in Orlando and also seen what the mayor has told the press. Some of the things he has told the press are out right lies. He is making claims that the people they've arrested so far don't even live in Orlando and are just making trouble. Most of the people involved do in fact live in Orlando and believe it or not it's hard to find work here. I can tell you of numerous neighborhoods you don't want to live in because the crime rates are so high (they are higher per population than NYC). One of the main causes of crime is poverty and desperation, the more you have of those the higher the rate of crime.

Also a dirty trick they pulled here was having the police direct the protesters to put all the belongings in a certain area. Then on a night while it was raining, and for the first time in months, they turned on the sprinklers in that area doing damage to people's stuff deliberately. After that they then forced people out of the area and claimed people had left stuff behind to taunt police. People left stuff behind because they were forced to flee before gathering their soaked and damaged things or be arrested.

So if you look beyond the mainstream media and see the undercurrents of things going on, you will find how the politicians, the police, and Wall Street are using dirty tactics, lies, and extreme force to try and discredit and break up the movement. This to me means they are hitting a nerve and have them scared. They know that they can no longer fool the people and that they are taking a stand against the abuse. This is how bullies are taken down, and the biggest bully of them all is fighting to keep his status as a bully.

[massacremasses]

Thanks Mike. These are things that are new to me and I havent heard them before.

Ill have to check these claims out.

[sombo]

Something new that just happened in NYC is the arrest of 24 people inside a branch of Citibank. They started off going in there to close their accounts. Now none of the videos online show much from before the police show up. But what's being said is that Citibank asked them to leave, they stayed to try and close their accounts. The cops were then called in to arrest them for criminal trespassing. When the people did try to leave they were were denied exit so they could be arrested. One woman who did get out, and in an orderly fashion having finished her business, was also arrested and pulled back inside with the others.

So much for taking your business elsewhere I suppose. Wanna use a different company from one you believe has wronged you? Better make sure they won't try have you arrested for it first.

This is the sort of thing going on right now and it will only get worse. I will wait to see if the mainstream media sources even talk about this or what sort of spin they'll put on it. I'm sure they won't show any of the videos that were taken.

[shiroganeshinobi]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

what should they be protesting?: Protest the govt. bail outs. and protest those who gave the bailouts. Set your sights on every politician who agreed to it. vote for people who will change policies. The OWS already has such a negative vibe that no matter how much you defend it, it will never really be taken seriously... so keep at it. I dont care.

I've explained the issues and linked links but you still cant seem to put it together. At this point I'm thinking you dont understand what you're reading, a lack of critical thinking, or you're not reading it at all like a number of non supporters in this thread. I'm not sure if the former or latter is worse.

I find it refreshing that Jiggles has the open mindedness to look a little more into what we've said and I certainly give him a huge thumbs up. I linked the main page of this study before but I think it's a good analysis of the Tea Pary

[massacremasses]

I dont agree with your solutions....


I have an open mind. Do you?

[shiroganeshinobi]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

I dont agree with your solutions....

I have an open mind. Do you?

I like how everyone says this and yet no one means it. So captain, how do we solve this mess?

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Samer

I certainly cannot speak for OWS. However, I can try to summarize it in one paragraph:

In the past few decades, but especially the past decade, the wealth distribution in this country has shifted and accelerated dramatically towards the top (1%). Part of the reason for this is natural and is due to technology and globalization. However, a very large part of this is due to corporate control of both parties of our Government. For a glaringly clear example of this look at Goldman Sacks (Sucks), and specifically, the guarantees they got from our Government during the 2008 financial crisis which they were involved in creating. Another example, GE paid no taxes last year. A third example, tax subsidies (welfare) to oil companies while they make record profits. People in the middle class are being squeezed and they feel that the Government is no longer looking out for their interests. Corporations are sitting on huge amounts of cash right now, but they aren't spending it. Why? partly because there is no market for goods and services (middle class is broke). The idea of tax cuts for these corporations or for the wealthy spurring economic growth flies in the face of reality. The 'trickle down' economics theory has been debunked. Yet any talk of modest tax increases on the wealthy and the right will cry fowl. They never use the words 'rich' or 'wealthy'. They only say 'job creator'. Well, the 'job creators' are the wealthiest they've ever been in the history of the United States. Where are all these jobs?

When I go to work and school and elsewhere in this world, I don't see this. Maybe I live in ParadiseLand, Ca, but the middle class is not broke here. If you weren't telling me there was a problem, I wouldn't know there is one (in fact I don't truly believe there is a problem).

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by shiroganeshinobi

I like how everyone says this and yet no one means it. So captain, how do we solve this mess?

agree to disagree, I suppose.

[shiroganeshinobi]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

agree to disagree, I suppose.

So you're wont say or reason why you think the ideas presented wont work other than you simply disagree. Also you wont reveal what you really think should be done. Are you afraid that your ideas and beliefs will be criticized?

[almost40]

Top 100 liberal websites.

http://deathby1000papercuts.com/dbkp...eral-websites/

Top 100 conservative websites

http://deathby1000papercuts.com/dbkp...s-feb-14-2010/

[Samer]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

When I go to work and school and elsewhere in this world, I don't see this. Maybe I live in ParadiseLand, Ca, but the middle class is not broke here. If you weren't telling me there was a problem, I wouldn't know there is one (in fact I don't truly believe there is a problem).

So if you don't see something, that means it doesn't exist? Is that how it works?

I haven't seen the Great Wall of China, but I'm pretty sure it exists. Similarly, I know for a fact that people are hurting. Do you deny the unemployment problem? Do you deny the foreclosure crisis?

I suppose I shouldn't have wasted my time. In an earlier post you seemed genuinely interested in understanding what OWS was all about. I spent the time to think about a concise way to describe it to you. Unfortunately, your response to my post does not indicate that you took the time to actually read my post and consider it with an open mind. Instead, it appears you looked for something to disagree with, something to allow you to dismiss the argument as a whole. Too bad the thing you disagree with is a fact that no rational person disputes. No one is entitled to their own facts. So sorry to burst your bubble but climate change caused by people is real and evolution is real.

[Heed]

NSFW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAHiq-Lxs30

Boobies? what? what are we protesting about?

[shiroganeshinobi]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

When I go to work and school and elsewhere in this world, I don't see this. Maybe I live in ParadiseLand, Ca, but the middle class is not broke here. If you weren't telling me there was a problem, I wouldn't know there is one (in fact I don't truly believe there is a problem).

You'll never see it because everything really does look fine on the outside but there are big underlying cracks not being addressed. If you have time, I'd strongly suggest you watch this video. If this video captivates you and you want to know more about Elizabeth Warren, vanity fair has a good bio on her.

Link to original page on YouTube.


Big money behind government? Nah.
Net Worth of Lawmakers Up 25 Percent in Two Years, Analysis Demonstrates

In addition, Roll Call's tally is based on the minimum values of assets reported by Members on their annual financial disclosure forms; the true values of those assets may be much higher.

I really like that post almost40. You show both sides. Although, I would hardly call CNN liberal but just plain incompetent.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Samer

So if you don't see something, that means it doesn't exist? Is that how it works?

I haven't seen the Great Wall of China, but I'm pretty sure it exists. Similarly, I know for a fact that people are hurting. Do you deny the unemployment problem? Do you deny the foreclosure crisis?

I suppose I shouldn't have wasted my time. In an earlier post you seemed genuinely interested in understanding what OWS was all about. I spent the time to think about a concise way to describe it to you. Unfortunately, your response to my post does not indicate that you took the time to actually read my post and consider it with an open mind. Instead, it appears you looked for something to disagree with, something to allow you to dismiss the argument as a whole. Too bad the thing you disagree with is a fact that no rational person disputes. No one is entitled to their own facts. So sorry to burst your bubble but climate change caused by people is real and evolution is real.

Climate changed being caused by humans eh? Well thats another thread
Evolution, duh, I am not retarded

And I am genuinely interested in understanding what the OWS movement is all about, but, thats not what you responded about.

Ok so some corporations are sliding by without paying taxes, is this why people are protesting? Other corporations have money but aren't spending it, is that why people are protesting? And what exactly do they want the corporations to spend it on?

Sorry for the incomplete response, I'm late for school

[sombo]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Ok so some corporations are sliding by without paying taxes, is this why people are protesting? Other corporations have money but aren't spending it, is that why people are protesting? And what exactly do they want the corporations to spend it on?

Many of the major corporations are using special (aka only available to them) tax reductions to reduce the amount of taxes they pay down to $0.00. At the same time they are also getting tax benefits and incentives in the billions. This money is supposed to be getting used for R&D and job creation. Unfortunately many of these corporations are either sitting on the money doing nothing with it, creating jobs overseas while closing jobs here, or not making any noticeable improvements in their technology for the last 20+ years. They are also using this money for buying up smaller upstart competitors, large bonuses to executives, private perks for executives, and for donations to favorable (to them) politicians. This last part helps them to guide government policies in their favor regardless of who it might hurt, or by how much.

What they want is for corporations and the banking industry to be held accountable for their screw ups on the same level you or I would be. They want policies from the government to be made to benefit the people instead of the lobbyists that are lining their pockets with gold. They want the corporations to be made to pay their taxes with the same enforcement as you and I are (if we don't pay our taxes we go to jail). They want the tax incentives and stimulus packages that the corporations receive be used for the purposes their were given: IE; for job creation and true research and development into future technologies. They want laborers pay to increase enough to cover the rising cost of living instead of being reduced while executives get as much as 28% raises in a year. In a nutshell they want equality for all instead of giving more to the 1% in hopes it will improve things while the 1% just sit there and do nothing.

[shiroganeshinobi]

It looks like a slow day. Here's a link for those who think government is solely to blame and not wall street.

The Veil of Secrecy at the Fed Has Been Lifted, Now It's Time for Change

The GAO also revealed that many of the people who serve as directors of the 12 Federal Reserve Banks come from the exact same financial institutions that the Fed is in charge of regulating.

Although the source is HuffPo, the writer is none other than Senator Bernie Sanders. The GAO report he refers to can be found off his main page here.

Bonus link for those who blame government on GSEs in light of Bloomberg's words, I know you're out there.

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by shiroganeshinobi

So you're wont say or reason why you think the ideas presented wont work other than you simply disagree. Also you wont reveal what you really think should be done. Are you afraid that your ideas and beliefs will be criticized?

Na I think I misunderstood you. I meant I disagree with your solutions, as far as becoming a socialist state and such, since thats what you seem to be suggesting.

Im not gonna offer any solutions really. I think that we need to calm down with some of the regulations until we can get business's taken care of.

Im not sure what you do but I work for a small company based in CA and its hard with newer restrictions coming in and the tax cuts are being lifted, (or their trying) etc. etc. One good example is the workmans comp wants to charge us another 50k a year because we occasionally use a thicker gauge of metal (bigger then 14 gauge) we are barely making a profit each year, and this effects not only the company, but us individually with no profits there is nothing in our profit sharing, which means no bonuses, which means no Christmas money, which means sad spouses and children. Each time we start to make a profit (which remember this DIRECTLY affects each employee) it seems the state of federal govt. wants to regulate something else, or tax us more... but anyways I digress...


Im crazy anyways. Illuminati, trilateral commission, etc etc...

[almost40]

Bernie Sanders??? The self admited socialist senator is pulling for OWS?? What a shocker.

Great source.
NOT.

[massacremasses]

I honestly wish I could talk to you guys in person, I enjoy these types of discussion in person. They seem to get less nasty.

[shiroganeshinobi]

Originally Posted by almost40

Bernie Sanders??? The self admited socialist senator is pulling for OWS?? What a shocker.

Great source.
NOT.

So you basically just read the last paragraph while the rest of the editorial just flew over your head? I guess the GAO is not a great source.



What do you think when you see a picture like this?

“Is this improvement in the circumstances of the lower ranks of the people to be regarded as an advantage or as an inconveniency to the society? The answer seems at first sight abundantly plain. Servants, labourers and workmen of different kinds, make up the far greater part of every great political society. But what improves the circumstances of the greater part can never be regarded as an inconveniency to the whole. No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable. It is but equity, besides, that they who feed, cloath and lodge the whole body of the people, should have such a share of the produce of their own labour as to be themselves tolerably well fed, cloathed and lodged.”
-Adam Smith, god father of capitalism

massacremasses, it's highly unfortunate that the lack of demand is impacting the near survival of your company. Has it occurred to you that perhaps the insurance company could be blamed as well? Sometimes companies need to shift policies like health insurance when the costs/benefits is better elsewhere. Also I hope I can shift your perspective to that the lack of revenue you are experiencing, tied to lack of spending. No one has money to spend, creating lack of demand, because a majority of it has flowed to the top and has not trickled down. It's a cyclical cycle.

Here's one more link for you almost40, watch out for this liberal article!

Fiscal Conservatives With a Taste for Pork

[alex.s]

[TheTopher]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

If you don't like the way a company is run then don't buy their products and don't invest in them. Take your money to a company that is run in a way you agree with.

And no I haven't done much research on the OWS movement, I don't have time to, school, work, and motorcycling consume my life. I really don't think much change is going to come from this whole fiasco.

I disagree with Walmart, so I don't shop there. It really is that simple.

Now I've gotta go to my 60-70 hour a week job so I can keep food on my table and gas in my bike. Only thing I have time to occupy is my company truck.

What % do I fall into again?

[almost40]

I didnt even bother to read the link. As a matter of fact, I stopped reading the things you link too. I mean whats the point of posting every link you can find from a lefty web site or sites?
Its obvious to me to are a liberal. A die hard liberal.
Good for you.
Keep living in that DC bubble. Im betting it will burst after the election.
I would not waste my time trying to convince you of anything.
Keep reading the leftist propoganda and get back to me after the election.
We will see what the "people" have to say.

BTW..... Bernie Sanders is a clown.
The people of Colorado have spoken on the issue of raising taxes.
http://news.yahoo.com/colorado-rejec...020405659.html
Down in flames it goes.

[shiroganeshinobi]

Originally Posted by almost40

I didnt even bother to read the link. As a matter of fact, I stopped reading the things you link too. I mean whats the point of posting every link you can find from a lefty web site or sites?
Its obvious to me to are a liberal. A die hard liberal.
Good for you.
Keep living in that DC bubble. Im betting it will burst after the election.
I would not waste my time trying to convince you of anything.
Keep reading the leftist propoganda and get back to me after the election.
We will see what the "people" have to say.

BTW..... Bernie Sanders is a clown.
The people of Colorado have spoken on the issue of raising taxes.
http://news.yahoo.com/colorado-rejec...020405659.html
Down in flames it goes.

If you think those links are wrong then you should also be able to easily explain why they are wrong. If this is propaganda then explain to us how misleading it is if it's so wrong.

I was a moderate conservative before Obama and now I'm a die hard liberal because I see and acknowledge the cracks in our society. You didn't comment at all on that picture I posted nor did you comment on a quote from Adam Smith acknowledging the importance of laborer's well being. When I see that picture, I want to know more about the system that put him in that predicament. Your lack of response tells me you refuse to acknowledge he even exists in your just world. Did Adam Smith just say something socialist???

I know I can rely on Bernie Sanders, because I know he is not captivated by special interest etc unlike the rest of his colleagues. I've seen his videos and his work and they say a lot. Naturally people dont want to raise taxes on themselves because they are making sh1t for wages. You cant expect them to take on another burden but you know who can.


Here's another fun video for you, it's a TED talk. Richard Wilkinson: How economic inequality harms societies Watching this video makes me think of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Check out the comments too, lots of interesting discussion compared to this thread. That dude is just going all out.