February 16th, 2012, 10:31 PM | #241 | |
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Name: Brian
Location: Detroit, MI
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Quote:
Give it a shot. If something happens, email Matt, report back, and if necessary, I can swing by to take a look.
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2009 Ninja 250R SE Green Sport Touring Style: ZG ST; Symtec heated grips; RAM GPS w/ mUSB; DIY reshaped seat; DIY Givi E21 Sidecases; 15T sprocket |
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February 17th, 2012, 12:45 AM | #242 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Bri
Location: SF Bay Area, California
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r Posts: 19
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Quote:
I'd need to read up a bit more and see pictures of some installs before i feel confident enough to try it myself. Also, it requires some welding for the rear o2 yeah? |
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March 11th, 2012, 01:15 AM | #243 |
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Name: Joe
Location: Buffalo NY
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250 "Wasabi", 82 Yamaha xj650j Posts: A lot.
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Ok you psycho tweakers. I don't have time to re-read this whole thread. For us lazy arses is there a kit avail yet or atleast a parts list with a DIY thread? So far, whats the cost of this conversion running folks at the most? Performance gain up to 32Hp? Traditionally, I need some reason to have my bike in shambles for the riding season up here in the NE and to rack up credit card debt and this job seems suspect.
BTW: I might have a pre2008 cdi to part with. IM me. Anyone done this to a bored turbo'd 250?
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March 11th, 2012, 11:21 PM | #244 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Mark
Location: Sydney
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2011 model in Black EX250J Posts: 10
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EFI is it a performance mod or personal development
I would love to do this mod, I really enjoy working on my bike almost as much as riding it. BUT...............
As mentioned many times before, no picture= did'nt happen someone get a dyno read out. please If I was marketing this product and If it works as mentioned, this would be money well spent on my opinion. |
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March 11th, 2012, 11:34 PM | #245 |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
Name: Sean
Location: San Jose, Ca
Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette Posts: Too much.
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If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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March 12th, 2012, 12:25 AM | #246 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Super Tune
Location: USA
Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 250R Posts: 38
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Jiggles
Have you installed your kit yet? See post 222. Dyno results did not go well for one DynoJet tuning shop. A 22% loss in HP 28 BHP vs 36 BHP with carbs. We are also a DynoJet shop and have had mixed results. |
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March 12th, 2012, 05:37 AM | #247 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Mark
Location: Sydney
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2011 model in Black EX250J Posts: 10
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no I am not making any money out of it, but if i was I would, makes good business sense. I am sure there are plenty willing to purchase just need proof of performance, I just find it interesting that for all the installed EFI conversions there is not one Dyno sheet posted, sort of makes me wonder either they are so good and the extra performance is instantly felt and no proof needed or its a dud and no one wants to crystalise their loss. Other than the obvious and very awarding fact that, they had a go at it.
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March 12th, 2012, 08:17 PM | #248 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Brian
Location: Detroit, MI
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Dunno. Most of us that have it installed just uses it. I personally dont have money for a Dyno run but to be honest, I dont feel like it's all that different.
It doesnt feel particularly more or less powerful than when I had carbs. Granted, my carbs werent jetted. I just shimmed w/ 2 washers and removed the snorkel. The EFI install was really just for fun and the fact that I think it'd be cool.
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2009 Ninja 250R SE Green Sport Touring Style: ZG ST; Symtec heated grips; RAM GPS w/ mUSB; DIY reshaped seat; DIY Givi E21 Sidecases; 15T sprocket |
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March 13th, 2012, 05:55 AM | #249 | |
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Name: -
Location: -
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I'm keen to know what else within our social, cultural, political and economic situation is also making your "spider sense" tingle. ... While I'm not part of the Ecotrons purchase (My own FI build-up and implementation is a "one of"), I've never felt any desire to hurry to the nearest dyno. My FI project wasn't about that sort of result. I can tell you that my EX-250 is better as a result of the conversion to FI, it starts great in the cold, throttle response is instantaneous, pulls hard from idle to 13,500 rpm (I won't take it any higher, just a personally imposed limit). I'm pretty sure it's somewhat faster/more powerful, but finding out how much isn't important enough to me to make me seek out a dyno operation. There is even an option in the tuning and analysis software I use on my laptop (plugged into the bike's ECU for tuning rides) that can estimate the bike's horsepower if you plug in all the necessary parameters like tire diameter, final drive ratio, the ratio of the transmission gear (like 3rd gear, for example) and a few other items. But I haven't bothered to do that yet after two years of riding the bike with my FI modification. I keep telling myself maybe I'll get around to it, but it hasn't happened so far. |
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March 13th, 2012, 11:17 AM | #250 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Super Tune
Location: USA
Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 250R Posts: 38
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I don't think there are many on this forum that understand the advantages of a good fuel injection system. This is not saying the Ecotrons kit is good because I definetely have my opinion of that.
I am a retired GM engineer and have been working with it since 1979 professionally. Not only do you gain all the advantages of better starting under all enviorments, Fuel and spark timing adjustment under all enviorments and technology that is adjustable, you should be getting a stronger bottom end and slightly higher HP through better atomization of the fuel. 3 carbureted circuits vs say 128 or 256 adjustable fuel cells just cannot compare. OZNinja250 should not be dissed for asking something that should have been tested before 1 kit was sold. You CANNOT tune fuel injection by the seat of your pants. I Dyno every change I make to a system and look for every hundredth of a HP increase. No one here "that has installed an Ecotrons kit" has put it on the Dyno while monitoring A/F. Lean runs strong so if you are tuning for best feel, you are prematurely damaging your engine. When I set the A/F I will find the highest HP output in 1 to 3 runs just to see what I can get out of the engine then take it back to a healthy mixture that the engine will be happy with for a long time. It's obvoius (and very sad) that no one here seems to be concerned with that rather how cheap of a fuel injection kit they can put on their Ninja. If DynoJet respects me enough to list me as a top Domestic tuning shop in their new 2012 Catalog, see page 3. http://www.powercommander.com/downlo...yout-b-WEB.pdf And being featured in 5 Top Performance Tuning magazines you might want to put that kool-Aid down that your drinking and really try to tune your Ninja for performance and not self destruction. |
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March 13th, 2012, 12:54 PM | #251 | |
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Quote:
Congratulations. Dynojet likes you. Woohoo. Showing us a list of shop names doesn't mean diddly. |
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March 13th, 2012, 01:02 PM | #252 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Scott
Location: Syracuse
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja 250, 2011 Honda CBR250R, 07 Ninja 650 Posts: 212
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So what is the " good " kit. Does anyone else make an EFI retrofit for the Ninja250?
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March 13th, 2012, 01:07 PM | #253 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Super Tune
Location: USA
Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 250R Posts: 38
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Greg is one of the few on your forum I respect and would trust to tune an EFI system, I'm referring to the Ecotrons kits, not what Greg did. It's obvious you have drank way too much Kool-Aid at this point to be saved as even your reading comprehension is already skewed.
I already know the answer to the Dyno results. They have been posted before by another top DynoJet tuner. See post 222. Dyno results did not go well. A 22% loss in HP 28 BHP vs 36 BHP with carbs. |
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March 13th, 2012, 01:17 PM | #254 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: .
Location: .
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...again with the arrogance. "one of the few"?? Wow. You must be at such a high level compared to the rest of us. We obviously aren't even worthy of cleaning your feet oh Holy One.
"your forum"?? Now you're just proving that you don't belong here. I'm running carbs. I obviously haven't "drank way too much Kool-aid" or else I would be $500 poorer at this point, and trying to figure out how to get an FI kit to work on a pregen. |
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March 13th, 2012, 01:24 PM | #255 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Super Tune
Location: USA
Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 250R Posts: 38
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Quote:
I don't know the background of anyone else here. |
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March 14th, 2012, 09:51 AM | #256 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Mark
Location: Sydney
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2011 model in Black EX250J Posts: 10
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Quote:
As I mentioned I love mucking around with my bike as much as anyone, and also DIY fuel injection is really cool, and I admire smart guys like Matt and ecotrons at being able to put a kit like this together, not to mention those that made the commitment to install. I can relate to the whole mod as being in the hobby category although I acknowledge that the benefits of fuel injection are many and widespread. I was just trying to satisfy my "spider sense" and try to promote the discussion on whether their was a "performance" gain. and in closing......... not "spider sense" ....just inquisitive......... ps.where i am from, mentioning that another man has any connections with a spider promotes a different type of discussion.... lol. hey, i am sure that was not your intention....its all good. |
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March 14th, 2012, 01:41 PM | #257 |
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ftr OzNinja250, it was a reference to this guy:
if only this is how the comic really happened |
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March 14th, 2012, 03:13 PM | #258 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Samual
Location: Utah
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250r (RIP) Posts: 258
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Quote:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...ht=efi+install |
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March 14th, 2012, 11:32 PM | #259 |
no such thing as ninjette
Name: AP
Location: L.A., CA
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): (2) 1987 EX250E2, 1989 EL250B3, 1991 EL250E1, (3) 2005 EX250F19, 2007 EX250F7F, soon to add more.. Posts: 26
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Hello Richard?, http://twostrokemotocross.com/2011/0...uel-injection/
Is this the same Richard of High Gain Antenna that was in the news years back for being sued by busybox? I have followed your developments on apriliaforum. I have no beef with HGT or ecotrons. Sad to see the attitude displayed here. It would be great if you used your expertise and High Gain Tuning to develop a product for a 4 stroke like the ex250. For the ex250, ecotrons kit is it or roll your own which is beyond many peoples means. I myself have the stuff to do it myself using oem tb but has taken a good amount of money and time but isn't for performance or anything but just to do it. Ecotrons stuff does look like generic scooter parts slapped together. Customization did seem to go into the harness and ecu maybe. It doesn't exactly look like the stuff he sent you or that you can buy in huge lots on every street in china. Then again I haven't bought their stuff and opened one to check because it is overpriced still considering what it is and where it is coming from... |
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March 14th, 2012, 11:55 PM | #260 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Brian
Location: Detroit, MI
Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green Posts: A lot.
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Just wondering, what would you consider an appropriate price?
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2009 Ninja 250R SE Green Sport Touring Style: ZG ST; Symtec heated grips; RAM GPS w/ mUSB; DIY reshaped seat; DIY Givi E21 Sidecases; 15T sprocket |
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March 15th, 2012, 12:08 AM | #261 |
no such thing as ninjette
Name: AP
Location: L.A., CA
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): (2) 1987 EX250E2, 1989 EL250B3, 1991 EL250E1, (3) 2005 EX250F19, 2007 EX250F7F, soon to add more.. Posts: 26
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March 15th, 2012, 12:38 AM | #262 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Super Tune
Location: USA
Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 250R Posts: 38
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Quote:
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March 15th, 2012, 01:04 AM | #263 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Brian
Location: Detroit, MI
Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
I've said this before but I'll say it again. I think the ecotrons kit (if you can call it that) is great sans the TB. That I believe is their one and greatest weakness. The wiring harness and ECU works great for me and every other component hasnt caused me ANY problems during install. As far as I know, they are working on some new TB revisions/parts whatever it may be. Let's see what they come up with.
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2009 Ninja 250R SE Green Sport Touring Style: ZG ST; Symtec heated grips; RAM GPS w/ mUSB; DIY reshaped seat; DIY Givi E21 Sidecases; 15T sprocket |
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April 12th, 2012, 09:12 AM | #264 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Matt
Location: MI
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 169
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Quote:
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June 24th, 2012, 05:48 PM | #265 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Cody
Location: Villa Park, IL
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 1990 Ninja 250 Posts: 21
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Just went through this thread and maybe I missed it, what's the problem with the ecotrons throttle body that makes the OEM one better to use? The only thing i've seen is that the OEM one has unsupported secondary butterflies, which if anything would make me not want to use it.
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June 24th, 2012, 06:13 PM | #266 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Samual
Location: Utah
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250r (RIP) Posts: 258
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Quote:
With that said, I can't speak for the 2nd gen TB, but I can still assume that the OEM TB is of much higher quality. |
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June 24th, 2012, 06:23 PM | #267 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Jason
Location: Norfolk, VA
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2012 EX250, 2014 EX300 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
the new throttle body is much better, and has corrected most of the complaints from the group buy. back when this thread was started, the Ecotrons throttle had no fuel rail, and throttle cable mounts were not well designed. http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=96942 |
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June 24th, 2012, 07:49 PM | #268 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Scott
Location: Syracuse
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja 250, 2011 Honda CBR250R, 07 Ninja 650 Posts: 212
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So how does it run? Are all the bugs worked out? Fuel economy any better? I really thought this kit would be a big seller but it seems there are very few people that dare to try it.
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http://www.fuelly.com/driver/sendler/cbr250r |
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June 24th, 2012, 08:00 PM | #269 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Jason
Location: Norfolk, VA
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Quote:
the throttle response is much faster than the carb setup. starts real easy, and i ride off immediately with no bog down or stall. eta: the kit is well done but you still need to do some leg work in completing it. maybe that is what gives the potential installer pause. |
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June 24th, 2012, 09:03 PM | #270 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Scott
Location: Syracuse
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja 250, 2011 Honda CBR250R, 07 Ninja 650 Posts: 212
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Quote:
. A dual channel, logging fuel injection system would be great but I don't have time to make a battle out of getting it to work.
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http://www.fuelly.com/driver/sendler/cbr250r |
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June 25th, 2012, 03:27 AM | #271 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Jason
Location: Norfolk, VA
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Quote:
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June 25th, 2012, 03:42 AM | #272 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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I would not call it a battle, but i did have to make a couple of extra trips to the parts store.
With temp issues you are better off with a thermobob install Posted via Mobile Device |
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June 25th, 2012, 05:03 AM | #273 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Scott
Location: Syracuse
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja 250, 2011 Honda CBR250R, 07 Ninja 650 Posts: 212
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A thermobob might help. Might not. The big problem is the fuel condensation inherent in motorcycle carbs.
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http://www.fuelly.com/driver/sendler/cbr250r |
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June 25th, 2012, 06:02 AM | #274 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
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Quote:
But as far as the ecotrons kit goes, although the gen3 throttle body appears much improved over the gen2 throttle body, its still basically the same throttle body. The gen1 throttle body was even worse. The group buy got gen2 and ecotrons is now selling gen3. The gen1 throttle body didn't have the injector tubes welded on and didn't have the forbitel mod. Each generation is based on the ideas submitted by previous customers. All ecotrons throttle body generations are fabricated from two 28mm air flow valves that are bolted together, injector tubes attached and other post production refinements added. They were not designed to be throttle bodies. The OEM was designed from the ground up to be a throttle body specific for the Ninja 250. Even compared to the gen3 throttle body, it is vastly superior. The bottom line is that if you are considering the ecotrons kit, first, read this thread, then get an OEM throttle body. You might also talk to IC86 who was selling his kit with the OEM throttle body included. In any case, the other thing is that you'll need to weld O2 sensor bungs in your headers. With ecotrons, its buyer beware. My personal recommendation is that you stay away from him.
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June 25th, 2012, 06:13 AM | #275 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Jason
Location: Norfolk, VA
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my ninja used to never warm up, even in 70degree weather. the radiator temp would be around 120 and the block would be between 150-175. after the thermo bob its 190-200 and holds most engines and oil are designed to operate at around 200 degrees, the quicker the motor heats up and remains there the better. |
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June 25th, 2012, 07:11 AM | #276 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Scott
Location: Syracuse
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja 250, 2011 Honda CBR250R, 07 Ninja 650 Posts: 212
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Not a starting problem. Just generally runs poorly and hesitates until fully warm. Carburetors are so 20th century.
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June 25th, 2012, 01:26 PM | #277 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Amy
Location: PA
Join Date: Mar 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R EFI Posts: 58
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i recently installed the conversion and didn't have a single problem with him. matt was very helpful through the whole process with anything i needed. my kit is a v2.0 and the bike runs awesome. i wouldn't go back to carb. i had the v1.0 on the bike for about 2 weeks and the v2.0 is a definite improvement.
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June 25th, 2012, 03:16 PM | #278 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Martin
Location: Slovenia
Join Date: Mar 2012 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R (FI) Posts: 169
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how is it different from original EFI system?
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June 25th, 2012, 04:14 PM | #279 | |
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Name: -
Location: -
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Quote:
You've just posted that your daughter's EX-250 is a cold blooded beast, and our answer to that is, "Yeah, that's how Kawasaki built them, they're all like that." Then @lgk tries to help you out by directing you toward the Thermobob, which has been proven to remedy every single temperature related EX-250 complaint except the need to use choke during cold start-up (which the Ecotrons EFI kit will take care of). It surprised me to see you toss it back in his face in a rather off-hand, dismissive kind of way. I have a Thermobob installed on my EX-250 and I can back up everything @lgk has to say about the product. It makes a world of difference in how the EX-250 warms up and runs. |
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June 25th, 2012, 04:55 PM | #280 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Jason
Location: Norfolk, VA
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2012 EX250, 2014 EX300 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
so it cant be questioned whether it works or not. it does. maybe he thought i was bullshitting, since there's no specific kit for a newgen. well he's right, but its not hard to made the pregen kit work. the ECU seems to like the consistent temps, and the EFI system as a whole is working great. |
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