Where to start- assessing complete lack of low end power

Jojah17 · May 6th, 2011, 06:27 AM

Hey guys, I've finally decided to tackle an issue thats been bugging me for a while.

Background on bike (2008):
Pods installed
Shimmed up 3 washers
Kleen air system removed
Ratty 2-1 Exhaust

So the bike has been a WIP for a little while and I havent let this get to me but seeing as Im riding it more and more now its time to address this issue. I have a complete lack of low-end power. I know 250's arent known for their neckbreaking speed off the line but the bike should still feel fairly quick from 0-60. The bike idles fine and revs up fine but first gear and 2nd gear are almost entirely worthless. I end up in 4th or 5th before I know it. Its difficult to keep up with traffic and passing power at low speed is non-existant. I know the Ninja loves the top-end of its RPM range but ive got no pulling power there in the lower gears either. All in all the bike feels rather anemic.

So where to start? Im guessing the exhaust is an issue. I've got a leak in the bottom of the can which I know certainly isn't helping me out any. Probably needs a system with more back pressure anyways. What else? Should I shim down? Look into a jet kit? Only ride downhill from now on?

Thanks in advance and happy Friday!

DaBlue1 · May 6th, 2011, 06:39 AM

You should consider rectifying the exhaust issue you had from before, install a jet kit and change your sprocket set up, if it is still stock.

kkim · May 6th, 2011, 06:44 AM

put a decent exhaust on there before you try and fix the other things. here... free stock exhaust for your bike... he even lives in Atlanta. All you have to do is pick it up.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=71400

Jojah17 · May 6th, 2011, 07:20 AM

Wow. Kelly you are the man. Sent that guy a PM...would be a great place to start with addressing this issue.

almost40 · May 6th, 2011, 08:38 AM

Full system exhaust--Jet-kit---42t rear or 15t front sprocket.

After sorting out weather theres a mechanical issue. I Defer to the Expert Kkim take it away. lol

Mulholland · May 6th, 2011, 08:45 AM

At what rpm do you shift?
I find it shocking and funny how many people I have seen complain of issues or bag on the ninjettes performance who never even spin to 10k+ where the bike actually makes its potebt usable power. It astounds me seeing stories about it... like they just don't understand it...

also how big are you, and are you sure you have the throttle tube pinned? It can be diffocult to go WOT without regripping...

Jojah17 · May 6th, 2011, 08:46 AM

I dont think theres anything mechanically "wrong" per se I just think the setup isn't ideal. I think the exhaust system is too much of straight-thru shot for such a small displacement bike. Couple that with the PODs /Lack of Airbox/ fact that I most likely have a leak due to crappy exhaust gaskets and I'd say im robbing all the power at low speeds.

Jojah17 · May 6th, 2011, 08:57 AM

No tach= no actual RPM #'s for ya but I know that Im at least 10k when Im hitting my shift points. I know where the sweet spot should be...its just not there. I'm 190 lbs (of unbelievablely good looking bearded man muscle) and the bike is maybe 35-50 lbs lighter than stock. Definitely hitting WOT.

Mulholland · May 6th, 2011, 09:05 AM

how do you "know" without a tach? You have a straight pipes exhaust more or less from the sound of things... shifting by ear may not be working for you as well as you think. Take it to fuel cut in second nd see if it has more passing power than where you have been shifting... and you're sure you're sure about hitting WOT woth the throttle tube?

it just sounds like the same user error I have seen and heard a lot of, no offense intended at all.

Jojah17 · May 6th, 2011, 10:10 AM

None taken. Yes having the straight pipe on there does make it difficult to shift from feel but its certainly not unreasonable to know when im >10k as opposed to <10k. As far as WOT goes...this isnt my first bike...I know how to twist a throttle all the way open.

Believe me, Im not short-shifting when Im looking to pass or get out of trouble...I'd err on the side of leaving it in gear and ramping up the RPMs in those situations. I know plenty of new people don't understand the torque curve of the 250 but I think that I have a pretty good feel for it...and currently my bike is flat all the way around.

Cuongism · May 6th, 2011, 10:45 AM

Did you get larger jets? Pods introduce a lot more air.

Jojah17 · May 6th, 2011, 10:50 AM

Stock jets. Needles shimmed up w/ 3 washers.

slolane · May 6th, 2011, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by almost40

Full system exhaust--Jet-kit---42t rear or 15t front sprocket.

rockNroll · May 6th, 2011, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jojah17

the bike should still feel fairly quick from 0-60.

No it shouldn't, it can't.

Have you ridden a similar bike to compare it to?

kkim · May 6th, 2011, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jojah17

Stock jets. Needles shimmed up w/ 3 washers.

throw some 110 mains in there and see if that helps. Have you ever looked at the jetting database?

Good catch, Cuong.

Jojah17 · May 10th, 2011, 05:41 AM

Update:
Picked up a stock header/can from another member and the difference is night and day. Still a little flat in the low-mid range but its a lot nicer all the way around. Not perfect but a good first step towards getting better. Need to get a slip-on because I can't stand the stock can on a naked bike.

I've checked out the jetting DB a couple of times and thats my next plan of action. #3 Kit is the way to go with the stock airbox removed?

Yes, I've ridden a couple of other bikes (closest comparison was probably a 360)...I know the ninjette isn't "quick" in motorcycle terms but my bike was really really struggling....

kkim · May 10th, 2011, 11:21 AM

you have air filter pods (and removed airbox) and are still using the stock 98 main jets?

Jojah17 · May 10th, 2011, 11:24 AM

I am indeed. Like I said, shes been a WIP for awhile- now that Im at the point that I can ride her everday its time to sort the tuning out. There were a whole mess of pressing issues before this point.

May 6th, 2011, 06:27 AM	#1
Jojah17 ninjette.org member Name: Ben Location: Atlanta Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Honja Posts: 171	Where to start- assessing complete lack of low end power Hey guys, I've finally decided to tackle an issue thats been bugging me for a while. Background on bike (2008): Pods installed Shimmed up 3 washers Kleen air system removed Ratty 2-1 Exhaust So the bike has been a WIP for a little while and I havent let this get to me but seeing as Im riding it more and more now its time to address this issue. I have a complete lack of low-end power. I know 250's arent known for their neckbreaking speed off the line but the bike should still feel fairly quick from 0-60. The bike idles fine and revs up fine but first gear and 2nd gear are almost entirely worthless. I end up in 4th or 5th before I know it. Its difficult to keep up with traffic and passing power at low speed is non-existant. I know the Ninja loves the top-end of its RPM range but ive got no pulling power there in the lower gears either. All in all the bike feels rather anemic. So where to start? Im guessing the exhaust is an issue. I've got a leak in the bottom of the can which I know certainly isn't helping me out any. Probably needs a system with more back pressure anyways. What else? Should I shim down? Look into a jet kit? Only ride downhill from now on? Thanks in advance and happy Friday!

May 6th, 2011, 08:38 AM	#5
almost40 ninjette.org Monkey Spank Name: Kevin Location: Illinois Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 250R Track-Bike Woodcraft clip-ons and rearsets FZ-6 track bike Posts: A lot.	Full system exhaust--Jet-kit---42t rear or 15t front sprocket. After sorting out weather theres a mechanical issue. I Defer to the Expert Kkim take it away. lol __________________________________________________ Black 250R Full Area P QC Dyno Jet Kit 100 main 41T Rear Sprocket

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May 6th, 2011, 06:39 AM	#2
DaBlue1 Long Time Rider Name: Blue Location: Charlotte, NC Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.	You should consider rectifying the exhaust issue you had from before, install a jet kit and change your sprocket set up, if it is still stock.

May 6th, 2011, 06:44 AM	#3
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	put a decent exhaust on there before you try and fix the other things. here... free stock exhaust for your bike... he even lives in Atlanta. All you have to do is pick it up. http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=71400

May 6th, 2011, 07:20 AM	#4
Jojah17 ninjette.org member Name: Ben Location: Atlanta Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Honja Posts: 171	Wow. Kelly you are the man. Sent that guy a PM...would be a great place to start with addressing this issue.

May 6th, 2011, 08:45 AM	#6
Mulholland Garage Monkey Name: Richard Location: North Texas Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): 03 Ninjette Posts: 166	At what rpm do you shift? I find it shocking and funny how many people I have seen complain of issues or bag on the ninjettes performance who never even spin to 10k+ where the bike actually makes its potebt usable power. It astounds me seeing stories about it... like they just don't understand it... also how big are you, and are you sure you have the throttle tube pinned? It can be diffocult to go WOT without regripping...

May 6th, 2011, 08:46 AM	#7
Jojah17 ninjette.org member Name: Ben Location: Atlanta Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Honja Posts: 171	I dont think theres anything mechanically "wrong" per se I just think the setup isn't ideal. I think the exhaust system is too much of straight-thru shot for such a small displacement bike. Couple that with the PODs /Lack of Airbox/ fact that I most likely have a leak due to crappy exhaust gaskets and I'd say im robbing all the power at low speeds.

May 6th, 2011, 08:57 AM	#8
Jojah17 ninjette.org member Name: Ben Location: Atlanta Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Honja Posts: 171	No tach= no actual RPM #'s for ya but I know that Im at least 10k when Im hitting my shift points. I know where the sweet spot should be...its just not there. I'm 190 lbs (of unbelievablely good looking bearded man muscle) and the bike is maybe 35-50 lbs lighter than stock. Definitely hitting WOT.

May 6th, 2011, 09:05 AM	#9
Mulholland Garage Monkey Name: Richard Location: North Texas Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): 03 Ninjette Posts: 166	how do you "know" without a tach? You have a straight pipes exhaust more or less from the sound of things... shifting by ear may not be working for you as well as you think. Take it to fuel cut in second nd see if it has more passing power than where you have been shifting... and you're sure you're sure about hitting WOT woth the throttle tube? it just sounds like the same user error I have seen and heard a lot of, no offense intended at all.

May 6th, 2011, 10:10 AM	#10
Jojah17 ninjette.org member Name: Ben Location: Atlanta Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Honja Posts: 171	None taken. Yes having the straight pipe on there does make it difficult to shift from feel but its certainly not unreasonable to know when im >10k as opposed to <10k. As far as WOT goes...this isnt my first bike...I know how to twist a throttle all the way open. Believe me, Im not short-shifting when Im looking to pass or get out of trouble...I'd err on the side of leaving it in gear and ramping up the RPMs in those situations. I know plenty of new people don't understand the torque curve of the 250 but I think that I have a pretty good feel for it...and currently my bike is flat all the way around.

May 6th, 2011, 10:45 AM	#11
Cuongism ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Cuong Location: San Diego Join Date: Jul 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250r, 2007 Daytona 675 Posts: A lot.	Did you get larger jets? Pods introduce a lot more air.

May 6th, 2011, 10:50 AM	#12
Jojah17 ninjette.org member Name: Ben Location: Atlanta Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Honja Posts: 171	Stock jets. Needles shimmed up w/ 3 washers.

May 10th, 2011, 05:41 AM	#16
Jojah17 ninjette.org member Name: Ben Location: Atlanta Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Honja Posts: 171	Update: Picked up a stock header/can from another member and the difference is night and day. Still a little flat in the low-mid range but its a lot nicer all the way around. Not perfect but a good first step towards getting better. Need to get a slip-on because I can't stand the stock can on a naked bike. I've checked out the jetting DB a couple of times and thats my next plan of action. #3 Kit is the way to go with the stock airbox removed? Yes, I've ridden a couple of other bikes (closest comparison was probably a 360)...I know the ninjette isn't "quick" in motorcycle terms but my bike was really really struggling....

May 10th, 2011, 11:21 AM	#17
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	you have air filter pods (and removed airbox) and are still using the stock 98 main jets?

May 10th, 2011, 11:24 AM	#18
Jojah17 ninjette.org member Name: Ben Location: Atlanta Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Honja Posts: 171	I am indeed. Like I said, shes been a WIP for awhile- now that Im at the point that I can ride her everday its time to sort the tuning out. There were a whole mess of pressing issues before this point.