My 250r - Wrong Tool for the Job?

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by BlackNinja8

A 15T front seem right up my alley for the type of riding I'll be doing. I can imagine there are too many mods for our bikes that give more bang for the buck than a $25 sprocket.

I believe that your decision on replacing the front sprocket is precipitated.

The reason is that you don't want to be at top speed too long, for a while.

Riding slow, will take the operation of the engine to a range of rpm's lower than the ideal for obtaining the benefits of 15 teeth.

I would recommend learning the feel of 14 teeth first; nothing wrong with that transmission ratio for general use (it is not a design mistake or something like that).

Survival and learning should be your priorities rather than top speed and fuel economy.

Originally Posted by Motofool

.......................

During that learning process, please, ride as slowly and non-aggressively as practical with traffic conditions.

Because now your brain is working at full while paying attention to many little details and stimulus, your attention to traffic is not as good as it should be.

Slowing down and allowing extra room ahead of you creates a safety margin to compensate for the reduced attention.

...............

Much better explained here:

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/fe...eye/index.html

.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

As for the terminal speed argument, Terminal Velocity is affected by 2 variables; the force propelling the object (the hp of the engine @ that rpm @ that speed), and the force resisting movement of the object (friction, drag forces etc). The ninja only puts out about 30 horse without major engine modifications. Changing the gearing does nothing for this, except put the power band in a different speed range.

Very good explanation, choneofakind!

By putting the power band in a different speed range, the maximum efficiency curve (output/input energy ratio) is relocated.

You may get better fuel consumption for cruise speed (~70 mph) at the expense of not reaching absolute maximum speed (which requires maximum power (torque x rpm) at the rear wheel) or maximum torque at minimum speed.

[BlackNinja8]

Originally Posted by Motofool

I believe that your decision on replacing the front sprocket is precipitated.

The reason is that you don't want to be at top speed too long, for a while.

Riding slow, will take the operation of the engine to a range of rpm's lower than the ideal for obtaining the benefits of 15 teeth.

I would recommend learning the feel of 14 teeth first; nothing wrong with that transmission ratio for general use (it is not a design mistake or something like that).

Survival and learning should be your priorities rather than top speed and fuel economy.



Much better explained here:

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/fe...eye/index.html

.

Moto - Thanks for your posts, you've got some great advice. My interest in the 15T is not about top speed or mph. I drive a 15mpg cage so anything better than that is a win My interest in the 15T is for lower rpm cruising at 75mph and taller low range gearing. Like many others, I don't enjoy shifting halfway through an intersection. Especially while I'm learning and my focus is on so many other things.

Regarding the highspeed discomfort I originally posted about, I went out for a couple more rides gradually working up my speed and focusing on keeping my weight lower and reducing steering input and it has really helped. It is extremely windy out today so I got to experience handling in the wind and while keeping relaxed and maintaining smooth throttle control I felt much more in control of the bike @ 50 - 60mph indicated. Cornering is also getting much better thanks to the relaxed posture. Leaning into a turn is easier when my hands aren't fighting each other the whole way through. Thanks everyone for the great advice.

[Slono]

Go into full tuck position so you won't act like a parachute. There was a thread I started in the riding skills subsection about people feeling like they'd get blown off their bike during higher speeds. If you cannot go into full tuck due to inflexibility or discomfort, look into getting an aftermarket windscreen (double bubble or touring) for higher wind deflection. This way you'd still be able to sit upright without wind whipping against your body.

Originally Posted by BlackNinja8

Hello,

I bought my Ninjette, a 2011 to use as a commuter to and from work (I do have a car also). After only 75 miles I'm wondering if I have the right bike to accomplish my objectives. Here's why:

I have an absolutely beautiful commute consisting of 15 miles of country 2-lane road, followed by 10 miles of wide open-zero traffic-3 lane interstate, followed by 15 miles of country roads. What concerns me is the 10 miles of interstate. While I haven't yet done the commute, I have practiced speeds up to 60mph rotating off and on a 2 mile parkway stretch. And I notice there is considerable wind and unsteadiness at even 50mph. It is very disconcerting. Commuting in my car I'm typically doing 70mph+ on this stretch of interstate just to keep up. Those of you who typically ride the interstates, have you gotten comfortable with the instability? Is this something attributable to my noobiness? I would like to be able to cruise at 70-75 without fear of being blown over, but even if I can comfortably do 60mph I'd be happy. Does the 40 minute commute seem too much for the Ninjette?

NOTE: I considered getting a 650r and FZ6 but ended up with the Ninjette figuring the learning curve would be better. I was scared off the FZ6 because of the top end zip, and thought a 250r would be a good option to start and eventually upgrade to the 650r. Would the 650 be better for me now?

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by BlackNinja8

Moto - Thanks for your posts..............My interest in the 15T is for lower rpm cruising at 75mph and taller low range gearing. Like many others, I don't enjoy shifting halfway through an intersection.

You are welcome.
Sorry, I don't understand the reference.

Do you mean that you want to avoid shifting from 1 to 2 immediately after taking off from a light or stop sign while you are crossing the intersection?

If so, I believe that you understand that less force will be available during the start up.
My personal preference is to have all the punch I can, which has saved my rear end more than one time.

Some emergencies require quick acceleration from stop.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by Motofool

You are welcome.
Sorry, I don't understand the reference.

Do you mean that you want to avoid shifting from 1 to 2 immediately after taking off from a light or stop sign while you are crossing the intersection?

If so, I believe that you understand that less force will be available during the start up.
My personal preference is to have all the punch I can, which has saved my rear end more than one time.

Some emergencies require quick acceleration from stop.

For me, I feel I have more ability for quick "get out of the way" with the 15T. Although you are technically correct that the 14T initially has more torque, I find practically that I run out of gear almost immediately.... so unless you only need to scoot 20' or so, I'm still more comfortable with the 15T. It should be said though that my bike is tuned (well, but not perfect), so it doesn't feel like you just slapped a 15T on a stock bike. However, when I switched to the 15T originally, my bike was otherwise stock. For me the benefit is not just on the highways, and off the line, but also in corners. I find shifting to be smoother, and more predictable/intuitive with the 15T. With the 14T I had more instances of judging the wrong gear when setting up for a corner. It wasn't just due to the learning curve, because the change was immediate. That is my experience.

I agree that you should get used to the bike totally stock first, and then go mod by mod. Once you feel confident with the 14T, you will have more of a feel for if you will even want to change it. It is a cheap mod, so you can always try it, and change it back too.

It is my belief that the engineers choose the 14T because they were trying to design a bike that would appeal to the widest crowd, and since it is a small sport bike, believed more people would want the feel of a little more torque off the line... but it does come at a cost. And also, since they designed/tunned the bike with "economy" in mind, it's overall performance falls way short of its potential.

[DarC]

Originally Posted by trixter

bigger bikes are more stable on the highway. There was a thread "I heard all the cliches today" that goes into this aspect. I am too lazy to find the link

Yes and no. I felt no less "stable" on the 250 than I do on the RC HOWEVER at speeds that the ninjette is not capable of then yes More than likely the culprit is like you mentioned...the natural god given talent of the ninjette to respond quickly to inputs may be causing this wayward feeling.

Originally Posted by leed

So honestly, this is something that never really made sense to me. Heavier bikes really aren't that much more stable. And they really aren't that much heavier. I've ridden my 250 with over 70 pounds of gear + me, and I never noticed a difference in stability between that and without any of that. I've spent some time on a CB450SC on the highway, which is ~400 Dry weight, as compared to the Ninja 250's 375 Wet weight, and did not experience any noticeable gain in stability.

Usually at the speeds normaly encountered this is very true. The feeling of stability probably comes from the amount of input you have to use to get a likewise result on the smaller bikes. My fat pig 470lb superbike requires a "strong" hand, bitchslap, w/e, definitely more work to move about and no more or less stable than the ninjette.

Originally Posted by trixter

Try going to a 500 pound dry weight bike and see if there is a difference you can detect especially with wind blasts and gusty winds.

My RC gets blown all over the place on crosswind days...not just "ohh, a little gust" more like "holy crap I'm going to eat ****". The ninjette actually handled these situations better with the RPMs high and a elbow dipped to the wind it was easy to drive through with easy input. The larger bike requires much more work to keep pointed perpendicular to the barriers and is very tiring on our nice 50+mph days...the idea of cranking throttle doesn't help on the big bike. The extra forces created when reaching speeds of 90+ with nasty crosswinds makes things not so popular.

Originally Posted by BlackNinja8

After further research, I'm thinking the cause of my instability may have been from choking the life out of the handlebars. I don't specifically remember doing it, but it does sound like something I would do - being my first time at speed.

YES! And fatigue as well. I had ridden countless urban miles without worry back in the day and never felt hand fatigue. It wasn't until I was much older did I start taking long trips and had to learn to regulate grip pressure after riding for 10 years. I could do 100 miles no problem....getting into the 200-300+ mark It became glaringly obvious I had skipped an important part of my learning curve.

Originally Posted by headshrink

Much of this has likely already been said (and it comes up a few times a year), but my answer is as follows:

The 250r is one of the more ideal bikes for exactly the ridding you mentioned. The only thing that would make it more perfect is if you had to go on twisties. You get used to the freeways, no problem. I do recommend changing your counter-sprocket from the stock 14 tooth, to a 15 tooth. This will benefit you greatly, both on the freeway, but also smooth out the shifting around town. Honestly, I'm often in 5th on the freeway, and I go a little faster than you.

As for the wind... squeeze your knees, be LIGHT on the handlebars, keep your elbows in and down if your jacket puffs up like a sail, lean forward if it helps, and just dance with it. I actually enjoy it. You may want to stick to the center of the lane when it's windy, until you get comfortable with it.

Yep! Stomp grip will help you relieve some of your grip pressure along with experience. Fear and anxiety is OK with cruddy conditions, just don't transmit it to your hands, transmit it to your eyes and ears. Don't worry, it will all come around one day and you will have an iron butt, hands of steel, and a sore back

[BlackNinja8]

Yep! Stomp grip will help you relieve some of your grip pressure along with experience. Fear and anxiety is OK with cruddy conditions, just don't transmit it to your hands, transmit it to your eyes and ears. Don't worry, it will all come around one day and you will have an iron butt, hands of steel, and a sore back[/QUOTE]

You nailed it. I'm 100 miles further into the learning curve and the discomfort I felt at speed was my anxiety running from my head to my hands. Thanks to the advice from you and others on this board, I'm using my eyes more to control direction and that has helped greatly.