An oil filter observation, K&N vs. Fram

[adouglas]

Okay, so I bought my bike a mere six weeks ago, at the end of July. I changed the oil in mid-August, just before my 2,600 mile vacation road trip (Fram filter, generic (but proper spec per the manual) Castrol 10-40 from Wally World 'cause I didn't have time to find motorcycle-specific oil).

It's now late enough in the season that I'm just going to let it go another month or so and change the oil when I put the bike up for the winter. But tonight I happened to be near a Cycle Gear, so I figured I'd pick up a filter and a couple of quarts of oil and support a bike-related business at the same time.

I went back to the filter shelf, and found Fram and K&N. Having read a lot of Fram-bashing posts, I decided to open up a bunch of boxes and examine them.

There was NO consistency in the Fram filters, and I looked at half a dozen filters. Oozing glue, poor assembly (uneven pleats), rubber seals set askew etc. on EVERY SINGLE FILTER. I did not see one filter that had zero visible defects on it. To be perfectly honest I didn't see anything that I could actually point to and say "that's going to kill my engine" but the overall lack of attention to detail really set off alarm bells with me. In today's highly automated production environment, one unit should look exactly like another every time.

Then I opened up a K&N filter, which cost all of $2 more. Huge difference. Perfect assembly, more substantial O-rings and they even include a drain bolt washer (copper and thin, not aluminum and fat).

I bought the K&N.

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Perfect assembly

For some reason I got a flash from that movie "Men of Honor". You know, Carl Brashear < Cookie

[noche_caliente]

good post - thanks! now if only the K&N that I order from online had the washer with it

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by noche_caliente

good post - thanks! now if only the K&N that I order from online had the washer with it

Meant to get a K&N filter after work. As luck would have it small engine guy within a couple miles of my house stocks it. I remember it having both o-rings, but don't remember the washer coming with it, though it might have been. Memory is slipping as I was at the dealer today and forgot to get a crush washer. Should grab a couple just to have.

[Momaru]

I heard a lot of Fram bashing too and did a similar thing with a bunch of Wix filters at a local suto parts store. Every one was the same and no obvious defects. Haven't seen the Fram to see what a 'bad' filter looks like, but I've been very happy with Wix (esp after buying an OEM filter and having to get the o-rings separately once).

[ninjabrewer]

just my , I have seen a lot of the posts on here in reference to oil filters and that Fram is the worst, or words to the affect and haven't used Fram on my bike or in my cars for several years. BUT, and that is a big but, I used Fram filters, air and oil, for several years in several different cars and never had a oil related failure. I did have a timing chain on a mid '90's Saturn that went out at about 160k or so and it was "only" supposed to last 100k. None of my cars used oil in excessive amounts, although Saturns have/had a rep of using oil when they pass 50k, and mine did. I'm not saying that what everybody is saying is not true, esp the OP who did a hands on eval of the build quality, I'm saying that I never had any problems with them. Kinda makes you wonder how they stay in business since I don't remember anyone saying Fram is the best and the rep they have, and considering the quality control issues that were just pointed out.

nb

[noche_caliente]

Chris - I know first hand about the issues they had in quality control of just the paper a few years back - I don't know if it has changed, but I'm not going to chance it!

[ztrack157]

I wish I could say KN made good filters. KN filters are great but they don't even make them they just put their name on them. Champion makes the filter for KN. WIX is a great company and the best all around cost and performance wise.

[adouglas]

I've also used Fram many times over the years and have not had a problem, ever.

However, when you look at a half-dozen samples and every one of them has a visible defect of some sort, it makes you wonder what you might NOT be seeing.

As I said in the original post, I didn't see anything that would lead me to conclude that it'd damage my engine, but if you have a choice between something that's obviously perfect and something that's obviously shoddily built, EVEN IF IT PROBABLY WON'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE, then it seems to me you'd want go with the one that's better-made.

BTW, I own stock in Honeywell, which is the parent company of Allied Signal, which makes Fram.

[mista350z]

I just changed my oil about 2 weeks ago. Went to my local cycle gear and picked up a K&N. Mine came with the 2 o-rings but no washer.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by adouglas

...Honeywell, which is the parent company of Allied Signal, which makes Fram.

false. Honeywell IS Allied Signal who decided to use the Honeywell name during the takeover due to better international recognition. They do in fact own Fram and Bendix brake divisions.

As you've noticed, quality control is poor on the Fram products, which does not surprise me.

[ninjabrewer]

Originally Posted by kkim

f

As you've noticed, quality control is poor on the Fram products, which does not surprise me.

why?

[kkim]

I work(ed) for Honeywell/Allied Signal for over 30 years... just retired 2 weeks ago.

nuff said.

[Sailariel]

Yanmar Marine Diesels will void your warranty if you use Fram. NAPA, Wix, is OK. Seems that the Fram that fits the 3GM30F is the same filtre that the Mazda uses. Appearantly the high temperature generated by a diesel wreaks havoc with the glue they use.

[Ramen]

I've used nothing but Fram filters from Wally World for the several times I've changed the oil on my 2008 Ninja 250R.

Nothing bad so far at ~7,300 miles. I also use Shell Rotella 10-40W full synthetic.

[randomwalk101]

i use mobil 1 model M-108. Very good filter and oil change is much cleaner than stock filter. Very happy.

[backinthesaddleagain]

I worked at Allied Signal Automotive Aftermarket in the early 90s. We were Fram, Bendix, and Autolite. Worst job I ever had. The marketing guys ran around in Fram clothes all the time and bled orange, us in finance just worked like dogs and were looked at sternly if we left at 5.