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Old November 18th, 2022, 01:58 AM   #1
blanzer
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Electrical Issue

Alright folks, got a new issue now lmao. Honestly this bike is just becoming a hassle and Iím really ready to get rid of it. 7-8 years of just problem after problem. So this time something electrical is going on. Seems like a short but wanted to see what you all think.

First started a few days ago when I was showing my brother that my front brake light switch wasnít working. And I was going to put a screwdriver in to show that the wires are fine but the switch was brand new so it was strange. But then he tells me my tail light went out when I touched it. Upon further examination one of the wires is almost cut off. I changed the fuse for tail with the spare and it worked again so I assume I burned it. Rode the bike 2 days no problems. Rode today and at one point the headlight went out. Thought the connection unplugged cuz itís happened before. I checked and nothing. Thought the bulb so I looked up an Autozone and then when I went on the bike I saw the light was on again. So at that point I thought itís the fuse. So I went over and got some fuses. Even took out the old one and switched it with a different one(tail) and it worked which was strange. Thought maybe the fuse was on its way out. Replaced with a new one and worked fine so figured that was it. Rode 15min itís and parked and noticed my idle was higher than normal(3k). Saw and watched it and shortly after it died. Couldnít restart. Wasnít even attempting to turn over. Just clicks. Then it was buzzing and rpmís moving as if battery was dead. I bump started it and it turned on. Start riding again and I noticed my headlight was off again. Also the further I went I noticed my lights on cluster were dimming. Got to an intersection and it died. Could not bump start at all again. Ended up getting towed home. What do yíall think?
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Old November 18th, 2022, 11:21 AM   #2
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Sounds like battery's not charging. Thus the weak solenoid clicking & buzzing:

1. measure battery voltage with everything OFF. volts = ???
2. measure battery voltage when pushing START. volts = ???
3. test stator and RR for proper charging status.
4. how old is battery? Have it load-tested.
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Old November 18th, 2022, 05:21 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Sounds like battery's not charging. Thus the weak solenoid clicking & buzzing:

1. measure battery voltage with everything OFF. volts = ???
2. measure battery voltage when pushing START. volts = ???
3. test stator and RR for proper charging status.
4. how old is battery? Have it load-tested.
1)11.4
2)10.6
3)Just checked the RR and the connector was fried and melted. So obviously found the problem. Trying to break it apart so I can test. Someone told me maybe the stator output is too high?
4)Battery I believe I got this year. Not very old but got it from Cycle Gear and I feel like itís just a low quality. But my charger says itís fine.Iíll see about load testing it

Another thing is I do UberEats so Iím constantly turning off and starting the bike.
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Old November 18th, 2022, 11:39 PM   #4
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Your battery's too weak. Should be > 13v before cranking and not drop below 11v in order for ignitor and sparks to work. It's not getting charged due to fried stator connector.



There's lots of confusion on stator & RR function due to lack of understanding and regurgitating incorrect information. Most of which came from 2nd-yr EE student who dumped flunked paper on Aprilia forums about how RR works. He was talking about switching regulators like what PC power-supplies use. But most bikes use shunt-circuit linear regulators.



Rather than re-writing history of your stator-connector failure, how it happened and how to fix it, please review this thread and follow studies posted within:
https://www.600rr.net/threads/stator...ing-out.587484

Lots of testing and data gathered on difference between factory shunt-circuit and newer aftermarket series-circuit regulators. Bottom line is factory regulator runs stator at 100% full-time, generating lots of heat. Newer series-circuit RR flows only what's used and generates lots less heat. In fact on my VFR, when I installed series RR, I put it underneath tiny lithium battery as spacer so cables can reach like normal.

Use "the Drill" to test condition of your stator and RR. Burnt connector may have saved your stator from terminal damage. You'll want to tie stator wires across with proper western-union/linesman knot and upgrade to series-circuit RR such as SH-847.

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Old November 19th, 2022, 05:36 AM   #5
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A fully charged lead-acid battery that's been resting for a little while after charging will not be at 13v, but 11.4v means it's pretty much fully discharged.
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Old November 19th, 2022, 09:04 AM   #6
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Yeah, but if you measure actual bike's battery that's good and fully charged from properly working charging system that's been sitting overnight, it will be over 13v. Especially if he just hopped off after a ride to deliver food. After 30s off, it should be over 13.5v. It actually takes many days for good battery to drop to resting voltage. Test yourself to see.

Here's my 250 after 2-days sitting (all factory OEM charging system).


And my VFR's old lead-acid bat after sitting a week


VFR's new lithium battery after sitting for 2-weeks


Also my RV's batteries go from 13.6v when put into storage, drops to 12.5v in 3-weeks.

This chart's more accurate:

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Old November 19th, 2022, 10:20 AM   #7
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Sure, It's possible that if you measure the terminal voltage immediately after charging it may be over 13, but if you measure the terminal voltage of a fully charged lead acid battery when it has rested a short time (30 minutes as used for the chart above), it will be near, but not as high as 13v. To tell someone is should be over 13 is likely to mislead him.
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Old November 19th, 2022, 10:40 AM   #8
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I'm not sure where you're getting your data. On all my bikes, over 30 of them over the years, when batteries are in good condition and charging systems are working, all batteries have been over 13v after 24hrs after turning off bike.

I've had my VFR for over 35-yrs and the voltmeter is always reporting battery voltage. That's a huge sampling of data. When key ON initial voltage is less than 13v after week off I start looking for new battery because it may leave me stranded.

On his bike, it's obvious fried stator connector isn't charging battery. Whether or not battery can be saved after charging system is repaired will have to be seen.
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Old November 20th, 2022, 06:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
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A fully charged lead-acid battery that's been resting for a little while after charging will not be at 13v, but 11.4v means it's pretty much fully discharged.
I was draining it while riding since it wasnít being charged. And I didnít charge it when I got the bike home. So could be giving me an inaccurate reading. I plugged it into the charger and it was at 82%. Also, my charger has a tester. Says itís good. Should I still load test at Autozone?
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Old November 20th, 2022, 06:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blanzer View Post
I was draining it while riding since it wasnít being charged. And I didnít charge it when I got the bike home. So could be giving me an inaccurate reading. I plugged it into the charger and it was at 82%. Also, my charger has a tester. Says itís good. Should I still load test at Autozone?
It would be reasonable to get the charging system working, charge the battery, and see how it behaves. There's nothing wrong with getting it tested though.
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Old November 21st, 2022, 05:02 PM   #11
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It would be reasonable to get the charging system working, charge the battery, and see how it behaves. There's nothing wrong with getting it tested though.
Got it tested. All good. Reading 13.25 off. Bike starts right up so charging system is at fault. Finally was able to get these damn crimp connectors on. Tested stator wires and it’s reading 0.7-0.8 for all 3. So I need to replace my stator then yes? Seems this engine was not as good to go as they said it was when I bought it. And probably has more mileage than they stated. Still have my old engine so I can pull out the stator but this is gonna be a whole project. Am I able to run the bike like this or will it quickly burn out again?
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Old November 21st, 2022, 05:34 PM   #12
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To add: I am getting 22-23 reading with idle and 67-68 at 5k rpm. Also weirdly the bike is idling normal now even though I couldn’t get it idle at under anything less than 2k.

Edit: Also my headlight is still out lol
Edit 2: Checked bulb, connection, and fuse. All good. Will buy a spare bulb just incase it something I can’t see or it burned out. But neither the bright or low is working. Doesn’t usually one go out before the other? I only ever use my bright.
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Old November 21st, 2022, 07:32 PM   #13
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Tested stator wires and itís reading 0.7-0.8 for all 3. So I need to replace my stator then yes?
I seriously doubt that all three stator windings are similarly out of spec. I don't offhand remember what the winding resistance is supposed to be, but did you subtract the resistance of the meter leads? (touch leads together, read ohms, then subtract that from stator readings)
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Old November 21st, 2022, 07:51 PM   #14
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I seriously doubt that all three stator windings are similarly out of spec. I don't offhand remember what the winding resistance is supposed to be, but did you subtract the resistance of the meter leads? (touch leads together, read ohms, then subtract that from stator readings)
Oh wow. 0.2/0.3. So then they would be in spec. I also tested battery again. With the R/R plugged in(do I test without?) 12.45v currently off(mightíve drained a bit), drops to 12.12 at idle, and then 12.45 at 5k rpm. Also my headlight turned on. Is there a failsafe to turn off the headlight if the R/R isnít connected?
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Old November 22nd, 2022, 05:54 AM   #15
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At 5,000 rpm you should see more than 12.45 volts.
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Old November 22nd, 2022, 08:13 AM   #16
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^agreed. Calls for either a mosfet or series type RR upgrade. Then re-evaluate.

I consistently get approx 14.1 on my SS800, high 13'S on my 900ss both with Mosfet rr's.
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Old November 22nd, 2022, 08:37 AM   #17
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just a heads up on DVM's, differences obvious. I'm tempted to believe my Craftsman 12.77 over the no-name el cheapo 13.32
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Old November 22nd, 2022, 10:20 AM   #18
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Right... A meter that's reading 2.5% high will make 12.7 look like it's over 13.
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Old November 22nd, 2022, 02:14 PM   #19
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Yeah definitely either the R/R is bad or the stator is bad or both. Gonna switch out the R/R first to see. I rode last night just to go to the bank and it died. Had to tow back. So definitely not getting a charge
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Old November 22nd, 2022, 03:16 PM   #20
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^ Dude.....can't say you weren't warned
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Old November 22nd, 2022, 05:36 PM   #21
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^ Dude.....can't say you weren't warned
Oh I know lol but had no choice and was hoping itíd make it. Plus I wanted to test ride to check the battery after and see. Will update once I get the part.
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Old November 22nd, 2022, 06:57 PM   #22
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Oh I know lol but had no choice and was hoping itíd make it. Plus I wanted to test ride to check the battery after and see. Will update once I get the part.
have you chosen an rr as yet?
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Old November 22nd, 2022, 07:26 PM   #23
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have you chosen an rr as yet?
Not yet do you have a recommendation? I was honestly thinking of just getting a stock used one to save time and money lol
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Old November 22nd, 2022, 07:52 PM   #24
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Mine still has a stock regulator and it works just fine. Not that a MOSFET type wouldn't be nice.
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Old November 23rd, 2022, 07:14 AM   #25
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to be honest, both my Ducatis have pre-owned Mosfet rr's sourced off the bay. Formerly were working stockers, I just didn't trust either for longevity, which have now been achieved with the change.
On the '95 900 it had evidence it wicked up oil into the stator wires, I chose to entirely rewire, eliminating the mid-connector, using an older FH010.
The '07 800, I simply rewired at the rr to fit using an FH020.

Note both cool runners are original (though pre-owned) Shindengen rr's, Japanese made OEM on 1000cc Kawi's. Far east copies now abound on ebay/amazon....be careful, stay away from copies. One lasted just 1 1/2 hours on a VFR forum.

Pic #1 the '95 (2 wire stator, pic taken prior to insulation process)
Note difference in wire sizes in pic #2. The tiny yellow original wires obviously undersized.
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Old November 23rd, 2022, 07:35 AM   #26
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some further info.......
pic 1 look for printing on end of rr to assure its an original Shindengen mosfet
pic 2 rr with required connectors
pic 3 the simple wiring requirement
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Old November 24th, 2022, 06:40 AM   #27
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some further info:

between undersized wiring and hot running rr's.....I'll submit RR's frequently cook from the inside/out. See pic.
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Old November 29th, 2022, 05:53 PM   #28
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Newly used R/R came today. Plugged it in. Voltage at battery is reading 12.3 at idle and 12.7 at 5k rpmís. Safe to assume that the stator is bad?
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Old November 29th, 2022, 06:10 PM   #29
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i'd test the stator output.....set meter to AC volts....find the 3 yellow stator output wires (unplug the rr, they will be accessible from the harness fitting)

test 1 to 2, 2 to 3 and 1 to 3, writing down readings of each, which should be near 60 AC volts with engine running at 4,000 rpm. Any variations to above readings... stator no good. If they are all equal and near 60...RR may be bad. I happen to have a plug-in MOSFET RR which fits both the 250 pregen and EX500

https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do...system_work%3F
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Old December 1st, 2022, 04:12 PM   #30
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i'd test the stator output.....set meter to AC volts....find the 3 yellow stator output wires (unplug the rr, they will be accessible from the harness fitting)

test 1 to 2, 2 to 3 and 1 to 3, writing down readings of each, which should be near 60 AC volts with engine running at 4,000 rpm. Any variations to above readings... stator no good. If they are all equal and near 60...RR may be bad. I happen to have a plug-in MOSFET RR which fits both the 250 pregen and EX500

https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do...system_work%3F
So I retested them all. Cuz I already did before. But this time they were all consistent. Before they were sporadic so I’m confused lol. Maybe I used the wrong setting on the multimeter? Not sure. But all 3 for resistance read .8 with tips reading .1(I thought the tips were .2-.3 but I don’t think I held them together steady enough to get an accurate reading) so all 3 are at .7
When I tested with the bike on I got 20volts across the board and at 5k rpm’s I got 70volts across the board. Now this leads me to believe that my R/R is bad. So did I just buy a bad R/R? Guess it’s plausible. How much is the R/R you have? Also, I notice it has only 5 wires. What do I do with the extra wire? Do I need it? Lol
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Old December 1st, 2022, 04:40 PM   #31
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PM on its way to you.
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Old December 1st, 2022, 11:06 PM   #32
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So I have a question. Because Iím dumb, and just realized when taking out the spare stator of my old engine and reading my Clymer service manual, that I was testing the wrong connection. I was testing the 3 male connections that plug into the R/R. Not the female connections that the Stator plugs directly into the wire harness. Lmao. Does that make a difference or I need to test solely that? Itís raining currently so i will retest tomorrow. Old stator looks good though.
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Old December 2nd, 2022, 06:47 AM   #33
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no, not any significant difference in readings

70VAC as you posted previously is perfect output in all 3 phases
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Old December 2nd, 2022, 09:01 AM   #34
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For what it's worth, I've heard multiple stories of buying bad regulators for various motorcycles.
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Old December 2nd, 2022, 09:51 AM   #35
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lets zero in on the rr you got, @blanzer. Where'd you get it? A directl plug-in? Specific brand and model? Pics or web reference?
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Old December 2nd, 2022, 12:55 PM   #36
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lets zero in on the rr you got, @blanzer. Where'd you get it? A directl plug-in? Specific brand and model? Pics or web reference?
The one I bought was a used stock one off eBay pulled off a 2003. Here is a picture of the setup. Same one I sent to you before Gordon. Could’ve definitely just been a bad one but looks fine. Was gonna order a new one to be sure but not sure on the quality of these eBay ones. Just really need something so I can get back on the road and then I’ll buy a better one.
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Old December 2nd, 2022, 03:03 PM   #37
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Just really need something so I can get back on the road and then Iíll buy a better one.
My 17 year old stock regulator is still working fine, so don't feel bad.
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Old December 2nd, 2022, 04:09 PM   #38
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My 17 year old stock regulator is still working fine, so don't feel bad.
that age is right near when i opted to upgrade the one on my '95 900ss. As it was getting older, I lost faith in trusting its reliability. The cool to the touch Mosfet restored it yet again. Except for a ground issue episode (totally my fault) its been faultless since 2010.
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Old December 2nd, 2022, 04:39 PM   #39
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that age is right near when i opted to upgrade the one on my '95 900ss. As it was getting older, I lost faith in trusting its reliability. The cool to the touch Mosfet restored it yet again. Except for a ground issue episode (totally my fault) its been faultless since 2010.
All the regulators I manufactured for the Kawasaki triples used HexFETs, which of course are a type of MOSFET. I made the prototype around 2010, and it's still running fine in my H2. I suppose I could make one for my 250. The main difference would be that it needs a 3-phase rectifier (6 diodes) wheras the ones I made use a full wave single phase rectifier (4 diodes).
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Old December 2nd, 2022, 07:41 PM   #40
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^ whoa, utmost of respect to you, Jim.
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