Why no love for the 650 Ninjas?

[Ninja28]

I am just curious on why I hardly see anyone upgrade from a 250 to the 650?

Its a bigger displacement without the Super Sport insurance cost and has the extra power and torque people complain are lacking with the 250.

Is it just not enough of a upgrade to justify coming off a 250? People would rather make a jump to the 600's instead?

[bdavison]

Because its a Harley Davidson in sporty clothes.

If they had actually built it like a sport bike, and put that 650 in a real sport bike chassis with clip-ons instead of ape hangers I might actually be interested in one. There's a reason it lacks the "R" designation.

[Ninja28]

I've never ridden one, and honestly never even seen one in person, but they look sporty enough? Is the handling just terrible or something?

[akcalhoun]

wondering the same thing myself

[Compooky]

Was wondering about this too. Haven't seen anyone around here riding a ninja 650 yet. And the closest dealer to me is currently overstocked with 4 or 5 of each color.

[ai4px]

Originally Posted by Ninja28

I've never ridden one, and honestly never even seen one in person, but they look sporty enough? Is the handling just terrible or something?

I thought the same thing in reverse.... that 250 looks pretty sporty just like my 650, but I've never ridden one. Funny, I would seriously consider a 250 as a 2nd bike if the wife hadn't wanted a vulcan.

[xSean13]

All the inactive people with low posts have conveniently never seen anyone here on a 650; if you are active than you'd realize quite a few people have or have had a ninja 650 or even the sv650

[Compooky]

Originally Posted by xSean13

All the inactive people with low posts have conveniently never seen anyone here on a 650; if you are active than you'd realize quite a few people have or have had a ninja 650 or even the sv650

How many ninja 650's have you seen in person compared to other bikes?

[xSean13]

Originally Posted by Compooky

How many ninja 650's have you seen in person compared to other bikes?

It's a small percent, though I've seen at least 3 around my area. I haven't seen any gixxers...so the same thing could be said about any type of bike.

[edxmon]

I see about 1/2 dozen of probably every super sport every day on my way to work and around base, something about enlisted men and motorcycles. Don't even get me started on harleys.

I would go out and take some pictures for you guys but photography is prohbited on base, if you are not strictly authorized.

But Sean is right there are prolly 5-6 members with 650s, I know jiggles just traded his for a 1000

[bdavison]

Here's my opinion after riding one...

The Suspension is way to stiff for my tastes, and seems radically over sprung in the rear. Don't know if it can be fixed or not...probably take some work. And considering the way they mounted the rear suspension, its probably going to take a lot of work.

I absolutely despise it when they put those dirt bike handlebars on a sport bike, so right off the bat, there's the expense of throwing them in the trash where they belong, and ordering a set of clipons.

I swear they hard mounted the engine, because it shakes and vibrates like a fricken paint mixer.

Its quite clear they intended it to be a Harley alternative, because it has tons of torque for rapid take-offs, but lacks balls in the top end. Shakes like crazy, and has a banana seat for your ol' lady.

But what really kills it for me...is the price. I was seeing the 650 in showrooms right at or just under the last years ZX-6R in sticker...and that pretty much killed it off for me all together.

[choneofakind]

I think they just missed the mark with the 650. They could have gone for a super sport twin like the sv650 or the 1199 panigale. As the new duc makes obvious, it IS possible to have oodles of torque but still keep the massive top end.

With clipons and rearsets the ninja 650 would be a great bike. Lots of torque for twisties without wringing its neck. It might need a pipe and some work with a power commander to make the top end strong enough to keep up as a track bike though.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Motofool]

This article states that it was created to replace the EX500:

http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/146_...0/viewall.html

http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/146_...650/index.html

[seanshawnS]

Originally Posted by bdavison

Here's my opinion after riding one...

The Suspension is way to stiff for my tastes, and seems radically over sprung in the rear. Don't know if it can be fixed or not...probably take some work. And considering the way they mounted the rear suspension, its probably going to take a lot of work.

I absolutely despise it when they put those dirt bike handlebars on a sport bike, so right off the bat, there's the expense of throwing them in the trash where they belong, and ordering a set of clipons.

I swear they hard mounted the engine, because it shakes and vibrates like a fricken paint mixer.

Its quite clear they intended it to be a Harley alternative, because it has tons of torque for rapid take-offs, but lacks balls in the top end. Shakes like crazy, and has a banana seat for your ol' lady.

But what really kills it for me...is the price. I was seeing the 650 in showrooms right at or just under the last years ZX-6R in sticker...and that pretty much killed it off for me all together.

For practical use, I prefer low end torque to high end top speed. There are plenty of track bikes out there already. The point of the handlebars I assume is to provide comfortable ergos.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by seanshawnS

For practical use, I prefer low end torque to high end top speed. There are plenty of track bikes out there already. The point of the handlebars I assume is to provide comfortable ergos.

Then, the Versys has the same engine with even stronger low end torque.

[Racer x]

Since they replaced the 500 with a 650. I Hope they don't drop the 250 for the 400. I rode a 650 . I did not like it. To me it felt like an adventure touring type bike. Top heavy and slow.

[seanshawnS]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Then, the Versys has the same engine with even stronger low end torque.

Vertically inept.

Also I hate those bikes. It's a motorcycle with jacked suspension, which equals a "falling in" effect. I like dual sports.. hypothetically, but "dual-sport lite" does not get my hands on snakey.

It'l be something along the lines of an Sv650 or maybe a retro inspired Triumph/Guzzi. Although that's about 8500 miles off.

[Jiggles]

The 650 rules, you are all gay

[thurt88]

I just don't like the way they look. I've never ridden one. Came close to buying one but the salesman talked me out of it and I'm glad he did.

They do look a lot better now with the restyle....I'll givem that. That gas tank is still ugly as butt crack tho.

[Jiggles]

Oh yes, I'm speaking about the 2012 650, the pregens are also gay

[Gurk]

because i can get a supersport for the same price.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Gurk

because i can get a supersport for the same price.

Whichin?

[thurt88]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Whichin?

yes. please enlighten. new or used ?

[Ninja28]

Well I'm thinking about getting the 650 because insurance, for me, is $50 cheaper on the 650 than the 250. Plus I use my bike as a commuter and the 650 would handle the interstate better.

Jiggles, I know it's hard not to troll, but what we're your honest thoughts on the 650

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Ninja28

Well I'm thinking about getting the 650 because insurance, for me, is $50 cheaper on the 650 than the 250. Plus I use my bike as a commuter and the 650 would handle the interstate better.

Jiggles, I know it's hard not to troll, but what we're your honest thoughts on the 650

How will you be riding it?

[Ninja28]

Commuter, with the ability to 2 up on the weekends, while still able to have fun on a backroad, yet able to make a 5 hour ride as well

[Jiggles]

The 650 is comfortable and fantastic for a commuter. 2up is easy and doesn't affect the acceleration. The throttle is the only issue I had with the bike. It engine brakes rather hard and I'd describe the throttle as twitchy. It doesn't make a difference for touring or around town riding but in the twisties when you are trying to dial in and focus on your leans and lines the throttle becomes a nuisance. The throttle on any larger bike is going to require a lot more attention than the 250 so be prepared for that no matter what you pick, but I feel like the 650s throttle just is not refined enough for a dedicated twisty bike. That was the main reason I traded it in, the 250 just out classes the 650 in the twisties. Now, I'm the type of person that pushes myself and tests my limits. The 650 was perfectly fine when I was just cruising through the twisties but when I tried to ride aggressively with it, it just didn't suit me.

That was really my only issue with the 650, I loved everything else about it.

[Ninja28]

Did you ever try the sport bars? I just wonder if they would help the feel through the twisties.

does it vibrate as much as everyone likes to complain that it does, or are they just being pussies

[Jiggles]

Sport bars? I prefer a standard riding position so the stock bars suit me just fine. The issue I was having in the twisties is that the power from closed throttle to slightly open throttle just isn't smooth.

It does vibrate more than the 250 but it's really not that bad, anyone who complains about it just doesn't like when their pussy gets tickled. In the higher revs like 7k+ it vibrates quite a bit more. The 650 is happy to go to redline but it does not like to stay there. I prefered to ride the 650 shifting around 6k rpms. On the 1000 I like shifting around 4k

[Ninja28]

Yeah the sport bars are what they are putting on them now, it's their version of clip ons. Supposedly it fixes the "ape hanger" feel of the stock bars.

As for the vibrating, your response is exactly what I was thinking

[Jiggles]

Ape hanger? lol is that a joke? The position is slightly more vertical than the 250. If you want supersport ergonomics get a supersport not a sport touring

[Ninja28]

As I've stated earlier, I've never sat on one, so I'm just repeating what I've been told ala the first response to this thread

[Jiggles]

Ah, personally I think the ergos of a supersport suck for general riding. I will only ever get a supersport as a dedicated twistie/track bike

[Ninja28]

Thanks for the input, sir

[Stamatos]

I love the look and features of the 650 and I'll likely look to that when I get my sea legs on the 250 and look to do an upgrade in a couple years. I hope they are still around and that I can find one in CLG.
I'm thankful for this thread becuase I would not have looked into this bike otherwise, I was afraid I'd be doomed to super sports past the 250

[NDspd]

I love my SV650 so much, it's got only 20HP less than an inline-4, with some mods handles somewhat simliar, and it's comfortable to ride. I call it my Japanese Ducati, it sounds damn good too.
As for vibration, there is alot less on my SV than the ninja.

[seanshawnS]

Originally Posted by Racer x

Since they replaced the 500 with a 650. I Hope they don't drop the 250 for the 400. I rode a 650 . I did not like it. To me it felt like an adventure touring type bike. Top heavy and slow.

Originally Posted by NDspd

I love my SV650 so much, it's got only 20HP less than an inline-4, with some mods handles somewhat simliar, and it's comfortable to ride. I call it my Japanese Ducati, it sounds damn good too.
As for vibration, there is alot less on my SV than the ninja.

What role does the ninja play when you own an sv650? I've been considering the SV, but what would I do with my pretty ninja? Seems like it would be rendered pointless.

[ai4px]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Ah, personally I think the ergos of a supersport suck for general riding. I will only ever get a supersport as a dedicated twistie/track bike

Yup... I'm what many here would consider and old man and my "old" neck can't take holding my "old" head up for hours on end. I prefer the more upright riding position. I think someone in this thread said something about clipons vs apehangers.... I like the ride position that those apehangers give. My commute is a 30 minute ride to work one way.

I rode an R6 a month ago and felt like a little hunched over jockey... not that the ride wasn't fun... just that I couldn't ride that way to work or further.

As we get older and our bodies start showing age, it becomes more about comfort. Heck, we recently spent more money on a boxspring and mattress that I did on my first few cars.

[ai4px]

Originally Posted by NDspd

I love my SV650 so much, it's got only 20HP less than an inline-4, with some mods handles somewhat simliar, and it's comfortable to ride. I call it my Japanese Ducati, it sounds damn good too.
As for vibration, there is alot less on my SV than the ninja.

I looked at a Gladuis when I was buying my 650r. It looked odd to me and all the advertising looked gehy to me. As for it having only 20hp less than a I4, what do you think the 650r has? Yeah, it's got even less. lol.

SV650 73.4hp
650r 64hp.

This is significant I must admit, but look at the numbers where the rubber meets the road...

Roll on 60-80mph
SV650 4.4 sec, 650r 3.8 sec.

Granted, we are talking about 1/2 a second... but whoop... but where did that exta 10hp go? It didn't go into acceleration. I do wonder if it took away from the gas mileage.

Yes, I'm cherry picking my specs to compare... all in good fun. I didn't realize it was a v-2 engine, I really should have cranked one up to hear it. I am not fond at all of the sound of my 650.

Still though, I really LIKE my 650r. It's the goldilocks bike for me. Good enough mileage (47 usually), two personalities (non-overlapping torque and HP curves) that let it cruise along in traffic and zip when I rev >8k. It is comfortable cruising at 60 whereas every SS bike I've ridden seems to like to idle a 80-90mph. I'm pretty certain the only reason I would want a SS bike is for the sound of the high reving I4 engine.

And while I'm posting... I see this note about the sv650 in wikipedia... "In September 2008, Suzuki Australia introduced the SV650SU, a detuned version of the SV650S, to augment their range of motorcycles that comply with the country's Learner Approved Motorcycle Scheme (LAMS)." Hmm... that Aussie acronym LAMS is just one letter away from LAME

[MustangGuy]

I agree with most of what I've read here about the 650. I think it really depends on what you want from a bike. I don't think the 650 was intended to be a junior version of a supersport. It's really a "sporty standard". It's a great commuter bike - plenty of power, great gas mileage and a comfortable riding position. I use mine mainly as every day transportation. I did take it up on mountain roads a few weeks ago - my first time riding like that. I don't have the personal experience to compare the 650 to a supersport on twisties but I think an "edgier", more aggressive-stanced bike would be very different. That's beyond my limits though. I was just happy seeing what the bike could do and leaning like I've never done before (well, I didn't have a choice about that if I wanted to make it through the turns - LOL!) I'm not thrilled about the LOOK of the handle bars. I know they can be swapped out, but I don't want to lose the upright ergonomics of the bike. I also have a Buell Firebolt. The riding position on that is very aggressive and the souped-up Harley twin gives a whole new meaning to "vibration"! Maybe that's why the 650 seems so refined when I ride it after the Buell. I'm glad the 650 doesn't have an a aggressive riding position. I wouldn't be able to tolerate that every day. I did an hour ride on the freeway with the Buell and when I got home my ears were ringing, my wrists and hands were tingling and my neck hurt for three days. I don't have those issues with the 650. I've learned to ride the Buell so that I don't end up suffering from it, but I don't plan on any long trips on it. I've got a few more years on me than some of y'all on here, so that makes a difference too.

As far as the suspension on the 650, yeah it's a little stiff. We have some great long smooth roads here as well as some really crappy and bumpy one. I have the front and back set in the middle range of adjustment. It works for me. Jiggles is 110% right about the throttle too. It can be a little difficult to modulate smoothly between closed and slightly open. I thought it was just me getting used to the bike, but no. I think it could use a little more resistance.

Anyway, just thought I'd chime in with my $ 0.02 since I'm a 650 owner. It's better to know what a bike is like before you plunk down that hard-earned cash. We ride for the enjoyment, so ride a bike you will enjoy.