Speeding Ticket Without Being Pulled Over?

[ChaosFromAbove]

I'm really confused about this...so here's the story.

So i was traveling south bound on the NJTP in the middle lane (no cars around me) while about 300 feet behind an unmarked blacked out state trooper who was in the left lane (which is against the law in NJ if you're not passing someone isnt it?).

So anyways I was keeping pace with him for about a mile and i believe we were traveling at 80 - 85mph (in a 65 on a clear day with great road conditions). Out of nowhere he flicks his lights on and swerves hard into the middle lane and slams his breaks, causing me do the same. He then shuts his lights off and swerves even harder to the right shoulder slams his breaks again and gets behind me in the right lane (i'm still in the middle lane). After that he seemed to have disappeared which is what makes me believe that he took my tag and pulled over to enter it.

I was just curious if anyone has had an experience similar to this and what the outcome was? I'm going to be extremely pissed off if i get a speeding ticket from him considering i was matching his ****ing speed. I hate cops sometimes.

Another thing, how can they write me a speeding ticket if they aren't even sure it was me? They can't prove it or anything, or even issue points to my licence? I don't get it.

[dubojr1]

I think your safe on this one. If he was going to issue a citation, he would have done it.

[ChaosFromAbove]

Originally Posted by dubojr1

I think your safe on this one. If he was going to issue a citation, he would have done it.

i hope so...he scared the crap outa me tho, i though he was gonna hit me lol.

I've always heard rumors about cops not being allowed to pull motorbikes over in NJ, which I think is total bullshit...but i'm not 100% sure

[Hadyn]

I don't think an officer can ticket you without making a stop. I'm pretty sure the only time you can get a ticket without being pulled over is where there are speed cameras (which are always marked with signs) and red light cameras (which are also usually marked).

Also, are you sure it was a state trooper and not somebody in a government-issue crown vic? One of my neighbors who works for the FBI has one, they look exactly like unmarked cop cars complete with blue lights and sirens, but he has zero jurisdiction when it comes to traffic.

[Snake]

I have heard of getting a ticket in the mail for running a red light after being caught by a red light cam but I do not believe you can get a ticket for speeding without being pulled over.

[Ash]

We have plenty of speed cams in the Maryland/Virginia/DC area.

They kindly mail the pic of the car,license plate along with the the fine for the clocked speed, to your home.

Right now the speed cams are in fixed locations - but portable ones are being tested.

It is a revenue generator for local gov'ts since the fines are outrageous but have no points attached.

-Ash

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by Ash

We have plenty of speed cams in the Maryland/Virginia/DC area.

They kindly mail the pic of the car,license plate along with the the fine for the clocked speed, to your home.

Right now the speed cams are in fixed locations - but portable ones are being tested.

It is a revenue generator for local gov'ts since the fines are outrageous but have no points attached.

-Ash

Wow... do you by chance know what these look like. We have some new things being mounted on our expressways that kinda look like a radar gun.

[Hadyn]

Virginia actually won't let speed cameras be put up. They barely got the red light camera law renewed. They are all over the place in DC/MD though.


I actually found this extremely helpful link, it's a list of all the cities in the US that use red light and speed cameras. Looks like you're safe in NJ.

[Ash]

They come in all shapes and sizes - but here are the ones I am familiar with.

[Blackwidow]

of course they can...for example....on the 15 (the road up to Vegas) they have aircrafts curising around clocking in speeds cuz people tend to drive high speeds since its an open road. in your situation, you may be able to fight the ticket....but to answer your question, yes they can give you a speeding ticket without pulling you over.

[bdavison]

Originally Posted by Ash

They come in all shapes and sizes - but here are the ones I am familiar with.

I love the spray paint on the road that reads "Greedy Scam" LOL

[Hadyn]

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

of course they can...for example....on the 15 (the road up to Vegas) they have aircrafts curising around clocking in speeds cuz people tend to drive high speeds since its an open road. in your situation, you may be able to fight the ticket....but to answer your question, yes they can give you a speeding ticket without pulling you over.

I seriously doubt that they can give you a ticket from an airplane without stopping you on the ground.

How does aerial surveillance work? Is it effective?

Like VASCAR, aircraft patrols are based on visual detection and identification of target vehicles. Police time such vehicles over a measured distance, usually marked by lines painted across the road. An officer in a low-flying aircraft radios speed information to a patrol officer who makes the stop. Aerial surveillance can provide very accurate speed measurements and allow officers to focus on the fastest vehicles, but it is costly and can be difficult to use in locations with high traffic volumes.

http://www.iihs.org/research/qanda/speed_lawenf.aspx

[Blackwidow]

why do you say that? they can get your license plate number and clock in your speed and there you go.

[ChaosFromAbove]

Originally Posted by Hadyn

I don't think an officer can ticket you without making a stop. I'm pretty sure the only time you can get a ticket without being pulled over is where there are speed cameras (which are always marked with signs) and red light cameras (which are also usually marked).

Also, are you sure it was a state trooper and not somebody in a government-issue crown vic? One of my neighbors who works for the FBI has one, they look exactly like unmarked cop cars complete with blue lights and sirens, but he has zero jurisdiction when it comes to traffic.

honestly, i couldn't tell. He didn't have the usual "SG" on the plate and i couldn't see through his front window to see his uniform, I assumed it was the newer unmarked style troopers...kinda like the ones in the dodge chargers. Even the undercover car in my town doesn't have the usual "MG" on his plate, it just looks like a regular car...until he pulls you over lol.

This is sorta what the troopers car looked like, except all of the windows were blacked out.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

of course they can...for example....on the 15 (the road up to Vegas) they have aircrafts curising around clocking in speeds cuz people tend to drive high speeds since its an open road. in your situation, you may be able to fight the ticket....but to answer your question, yes they can give you a speeding ticket without pulling you over.

Actually, every state I've been in with such a program has "speed enforced by aircraft" signs spaced regularly on the applicable byways, including CA, so getting a ticket from one is not the same as getting a ticket from a car that didn't pull you over.

OH! And why is the 15 "the road UP to Vegas" and not "the road DOWN to San Diego?"

[ChaosFromAbove]

Originally Posted by Hadyn

I actually found this extremely helpful link, it's a list of all the cities in the US that use red light and speed cameras. Looks like you're safe in NJ.

theres actually a new red light camera in deptford nj, at the intersection of deptford center road and hurffville road, down the street from the mall. I see it taking pictures all the time.

[addy126]

Hmmm do traffic cops do anything anymore?????? or just rely on push button detectors and traffic cams to do their jobs. Seems to have become a rather redundant job costing taxpayers money for nuthin.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

why do you say that? they can get your license plate number and clock in your speed and there you go.

They can't, and don't. All of the aircraft used to conduct traffic enforcement are in conjunction with officers on the ground who actually issue the ticket. Makes them easier to fight in court, as the officer who witnessed the offense (pilot) and officer who identified the driver (ground unit) both have to be in court to testify as such.

There is no ticket coming to you from what happened on the turnpike. But I don't think it's particularly savvy to be tailing / pacing a vehicle that you suspect to be a cop at 80+ mph. The "he's doing it so it's OK" excuse isn't a valid exception to the driving laws, trust me.

Red light camera tickets, and speed camera tickets, are a little different and rely on laws being changed in those particular states to allow people to be ticketed effectively by a machine. There was a case in SoCal very recently where they were able to exclude the evidence from the red light camera, essentially due to the system not being run by law enforcement, and managed by a company that in fact happens to be from out of the country even (Redflex, from Australia). The current thinking is that all such tickets are more easily fought now, until additional laws are written to clarify things (and remove more rights from motorists, essentially).

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Alex

They can't, and don't. All of the aircraft used to conduct traffic enforcement are in conjunction with officers on the ground who actually issue the ticket. Makes them easier to fight in court, as the officer who witnessed the offense (pilot) and officer who identified the driver (ground unit) both have to be in court to testify as such.

There is no ticket coming to you from what happened on the turnpike. But I don't think it's particularly savvy to be tailing / pacing a vehicle that you suspect to be a cop at 80+ mph. The "he's doing it so it's OK" excuse isn't a valid exception to the driving laws, trust me.

Especially when he may have been tailing you specifically TO determine your pace without a different instrument.

[ChaosFromAbove]

Originally Posted by Alex

They can't, and don't. All of the aircraft used to conduct traffic enforcement are in conjunction with officers on the ground who actually issue the ticket. Makes them easier to fight in court, as the officer who witnessed the offense (pilot) and officer who identified the driver (ground unit) both have to be in court to testify as such.

There is no ticket coming to you from what happened on the turnpike. But I don't think it's particularly savvy to be tailing / pacing a vehicle that you suspect to be a cop at 80+ mph. The "he's doing it so it's OK" excuse isn't a valid exception to the driving laws, trust me.

lol...i didn't even notice how fast we were going til he swerved with the lights on

[Hadyn]

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

why do you say that? they can get your license plate number and clock in your speed and there you go.

Issuing tickets without a traffic stop is already a huge legal mess, issuing them from an airplane alone would be a nightmare. Citations have to be served in person in most cases, or they can be ignored. That's what you sign when the officer hands you a ticket, you're acknowledging that you received the citation and agree to do something about it in 30 days.

[Blackwidow]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Actually, every state I've been in with such a program has "speed enforced by aircraft" signs spaced regularly on the applicable byways, including CA, so getting a ticket from one is not the same as getting a ticket from a car that didn't pull you over.

OH! And why is the 15 "the road UP to Vegas" and not "the road DOWN to San Diego?"

that could be true...i'd think he could totally fight the ticket because the cop didn't pull him over. My point was that it can happen, but i focused more on the aircraft stuff.

lol cuz i never go "down to SD" on the 15, i use 405. i only get on the 15 for vegas and/or laughlin.

[Hadyn]

Originally Posted by ChaosFromAbove

This is sorta what the troopers car looked like, except all of the windows were blacked out.

Hmmm...
The first thing that comes to mind is that it was an off-duty, out-of-state, or government officer that knew you were going too fast and was basically telling you to slow down, but couldn't pull you over and issue a ticket.

[Nemesis]

What is the law regarding video recording in your state. Just reading that gets me all fired up. Freakin' hate LEOs except my relatives who happen to be one. LOL!

[ChaosFromAbove]

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

that could be true...i'd think he could totally fight the ticket because the cop didn't pull him over.

I think the fact that my gf's uncle is a state trooper captain might help a little also lol. I'd be giving him a call if i get a ticket in the mail.

Originally Posted by Hadyn

Hmmm...
The first thing that comes to mind is that it was an off-duty, out-of-state, or government officer that knew you were going too fast and was basically telling you to slow down, but couldn't pull you over and issue a ticket.

I thought the same thing at first, but he def. had NJ tags...but it's possible he wasn't a NJST. I found the whole situation very bizarre, the swerving, the braking, everything. It could have very well been someone impersonating a trooper/cop...apparently we have a lot of those in NJ.

[ChaosFromAbove]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

What is the law regarding video recording in your state. Just reading that gets me all fired up. Freakin' hate LEOs except my relatives who happen to be one. LOL!

there is no regulation...and the funny part, i normally vlog but i usually don't do it on the turnpike, i think from now on i'm going to just because of all of the crazy stuff i see lol

[DAKINECHICk]

Originally Posted by Hadyn

Hmmm...
The first thing that comes to mind is that it was an off-duty, out-of-state, or government officer that knew you were going too fast and was basically telling you to slow down, but couldn't pull you over and issue a ticket.

+1

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

that could be true...i'd think he could totally fight the ticket because the cop didn't pull him over. My point was that it can happen, but i focused more on the aircraft stuff.

lol cuz i never go "down to SD" on the 15, i use 405. i only get on the 15 for vegas and/or laughlin.

Well, the 405 will only get you so far... then it's the 5, 805, etc. i15, OTOH, kinda starts here and is a straight-shot for most any inland/non-coastal areas of note throughout SoCal. Heading South into downtown SD it becomes Highway 15 instead of Interstate 15, and I live right off i15 just a bit to the North.

Yeah, yeah... I'm sure that our reservation casinos can't compare to Vegas, but you should totally consider us anyway!

[backinthesaddleagain]

This past weekend some of us came accross an environmental police vehicle chasing an atv and the police truck was coming towards us in OUR lane. Wonder what the real cops would have done if they saw him? Professional courtesy and ignore him, join the chase, or pull him over for being a reckless driver? guessing not the 3rd option...

[Blackwidow]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Well, the 405 will only get you so far... then it's the 5, 805, etc. i15, OTOH, kinda starts here and is a straight-shot for most any inland/non-coastal areas of note throughout SoCal. Heading South into downtown SD it becomes Highway 15 instead of Interstate 15, and I live right off i15 just a bit to the North.

Yeah, yeah... I'm sure that our reservation casinos can't compare to Vegas, but you should totally consider us anyway!

well i'll make sure to let you know when i'm in your hood. lol i'm actually planning a weekend trip out there soon, its been a while since i came out there for "pleasure".

[ChaosFromAbove]

Originally Posted by drsketch

maybe his wife left him cause his d*ck was too small, and he takes it out on his job..

lmao...wasn't that from a movie? The dude had a smiley face tattoo on his ass if i remember correctly

[tjkamper]

Stupid cops!

I doubt he will issue a citation. He was probably looking to see if there was some other reason for pulling you over. Vehicle reported stolen, expired registration. Or he might have been pulling over for something completely unrelated.

I always keep my eyes open for cops and I always keep my distance. If he is doing 80 MPH I do 79. That way the distance between us grows. If he drops below the speed limit, I will travel right at the speed limit or even 1-2 MPH below as I pass. Also I will often get off the freeway on the very next exit if I have been riding near a cop for some time or if I pass a speed trap, just so that I can gain a little distance. I don't want him thinking I was the idiot going 100MPH when I was only going 75...

[FrugalNinja250]

It may vary by state, but in Texas tickets issued through cameras are civil, not criminal. This is an important distinction because criminal tickets (pulled over by cop) can be fought in court; according to the Constitution (yeah, that tired old thing) you have the right to be heard in court. Civil fines are different in that there's no criminal record, just take your money and go.

I think there's still some gray area on the legality of civil fines, and it's likely to stay that way because pursuing a case in civil court and through the appellate court system can easily run a hundred thousand dollars in legal fees and court costs. AFAIK, nobody's invested that kind of cash to fight a $100 civil fine. It's likely that they would win, and the precedent would undo the whole camera enforcement industry (A very, very good thing IMHO) but you can bet ConEd will fight that tooth and nail since they make billions off of this scam.

An unmarked van (black, of course!) and a pellet rifle seems to be an effective way to deal with these forms of (IMHO illegal) electronic surveillance. Pretty soon every camera would need a cop guarding it, but at least then the tickets would be legitimate.

[slolane]

Originally Posted by Hadyn

Hmmm...
The first thing that comes to mind is that it was an off-duty, out-of-state, or government officer that knew you were going too fast and was basically telling you to slow down, but couldn't pull you over and issue a ticket.

I would agree with this, and they do not have authority to initiate a legal stop. I had a friend who was pulled over near Annapolis by an unmarked, the guy got out in plain clothes, flashed a badge and started yelling. My friend is prior LEO and asked to see his badge again... the guy showed it while screaming at him... he was a federal agent, my friend looked back at the license plate, turned around and pulled away leaving the guy on the side of the road yelling. You can have same state plates without having jurisdiction in that area. I don't recommend doing this, just thought it was funny. I worked in a nearby county myself and to even cross a county line took a serious offense and Sgt. authorization to pursue.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by Hadyn

I seriously doubt that they can give you a ticket from an airplane without stopping you on the ground.

Actually they can. The Cherahala Skyway (one of our favorite mountain roads connecting NC and TN) has an infamous reputation for having aircraft monitor for speeders.

Edit: Well, after reading everyone's responses, you guys seem to know your stuff. Guess in that case, the Cherahala scare is just a rumor. It's a 40+ mile road connection nowhere to nowhere without a single thing on it (even a gas station), so it's quite difficult to patrol. Some use it as a racetrack though, so there was a need for speed control and we were told they did it from the air. Maybe it's just a scare tactic.

[killerkay3]

for future reference, if a cop is speeding, dont speed behind him and not expect to get a ticket

[Racer x]

I donated 40 bucks to the police donut fund today

[tjkamper]

That's not too bad. Last ticket I got, put me back $112 I was going 120MPH though obviously not on the ninja.

[Hadyn]

Originally Posted by tjkamper

That's not too bad. Last ticket I got, put me back $112 I was going 120MPH though obviously not on the ninja.

Holy crap, only $110? The last ticket I got carries a maximum fine of $2500 and a year in jail, which I got for crashing my bike on a mountain road. Fortunately, Virginia is just retarded and hands out Reckless Driving summons like they're candy, and most of them get completely dismissed.

[tjkamper]

Nevada desert... He only wrote me up for 90