August 13th, 2011, 07:38 AM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Josh
Location: St. Louis, MO
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r Posts: 41
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Mismatched swingarm spool thread pitch?
So, I bought a '09 250r a little while ago and the first thing I did was to put on some swingarm spools. Or try to.
Here's the story: First, I bought some 10mm spools from cyclegear. Nothing special, but whatever. The left one goes in with no problems...threads perfectly...done. I go to put in the right one, and after a couple turns it starts to bind. I try restarting my threading (crossthreaded? no), switching bolts (problem with the bolt threads? no), examining the threads in the hole (brand new and perfect looking), and just brute force (maybe the paint on the threads is making it a tight squeeze...start stripping threads real quick). I even buy a tap and die set to try to retap the hole...no go, starts binding real quick. Finally, the eureka moment. My shiny new tap and die kit has a pitch depth gauge. I KNOW that the depth is 1.25mm, because that is what the left one is (and what everyone on the internets says), but when I throw the 1.50mm gauge in there, the depth matches perfectly. So, I run the 10mm x 1.5 tap through from the inside to clear out all the threads I've f*****d up, buy a new bolt from Ace, and voila! I have swingarm spools. Now...wtf? Has anyone every heard of something like this? I haven't seen any postings like this. There always appears to be some general confusion about what bolts are the right ones, but cooler heads prevail and the answer is always 10mm x 1.25...except now for ONE of my spools. I have a solution so it's no longer a problem, I just don't understand!!! My only theories are that 1) Kawasaki's supplier got a batch of the wrong threaded stock and never even noticed, 2) my bike was built on a Friday and the guy on the assembly line is messing with me, or 3) the spool mount is not stock and the person that replaced them is/was an idiot...but if it's not stock, it's a perfect weld, it matches the left spool mount, and matches the paint elsewhere on the swingarm perfectly. |
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August 13th, 2011, 08:27 AM | #2 |
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Haven't seen anything about mismatched pitch, but sometimes those threads have been covered with paint inside, and retapping them helps. More info in this thread.
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August 13th, 2011, 08:40 AM | #3 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Hyon
Location: Northern Virginia
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As Alex mentioned, when they paint the swing arms, the paint covers the threads on the inside. When I bought my stands they came with 10 mm spools and when I tried to install them initially I had the same problem as you, they didn't seem to fit and I thought I was starting to strip the threads on the swingarm so I eventually ended up buying another pair of spools. But after reading about the paint problem I decided to give it another go with the torque wrench (initially I had tried just threading it on with my hands and then once it was tight I was just going to torque it to spec but the paint makes it almost impossible to thread on further than a couple mm with your bare hands) and they fit perfectly.
Hopefully you have something like this for your torque wrench: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...35&R=100653635 |
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August 13th, 2011, 09:11 AM | #4 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Josh
Location: St. Louis, MO
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Quote:
Like I said before: I found a solution so it's zero problem for me anymore, but it was so odd (it still makes no sense to me how it could happen) I had to share so people don't just crank on it trying to get through the 'paint'. For anyone that's running into problems with swingarm spools, if you don't have a pitch depth gauge you can check by measuring 7.5mm and counting the number of threads, like so: pitch_depth_check.jpg |
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August 13th, 2011, 09:24 AM | #5 | ||
ninjette.org member
Name: Josh
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Quote:
Quote:
Last futzed with by krakatak; August 13th, 2011 at 10:52 AM. |
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August 13th, 2011, 09:33 AM | #6 |
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Good info here.
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August 14th, 2011, 12:10 PM | #7 |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
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I wonder if any of the previous guys retapping it just didn't check to see if theirs was 1.5 pitch.
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August 15th, 2011, 11:08 AM | #8 |
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August 15th, 2011, 12:40 PM | #9 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Jonathan
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I've asked the technician from kawasaki dealer where I bought my bike before I installed spool on my bike and the correct bolt size is M10(10mm) and pitch is 1.25
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August 15th, 2011, 12:47 PM | #10 |
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Yup, that's what it should be. This thread is making the case that perhaps in some examples, it turns out not to be.
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August 16th, 2011, 11:51 AM | #11 |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
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If I checked the other side and it weas 1.25 and everyone online said it was supposed to be, I may just tap it with 1.25 without checking.
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November 29th, 2013, 09:13 PM | #12 | |||
ninjette.org member
Name: Derek
Location: Boynton Beach
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Quote:
Quote:
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Sorry for bringing up an old thread but this is my exact problem. Oddly enough the bolt will only go in half way into each side. And your links are dead and im not sure exactly what I need to buy to get this to work. Im looking for a 10mmx1.5 tap? metric im assuming?
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November 29th, 2013, 10:42 PM | #13 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Josh
Location: St. Louis, MO
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r Posts: 41
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Quote:
It could be one of two things: 1) It could be paint, and you weren't torquing hard enough (out of fear of stripping the threads). You could either just muscle it through or get a tap (10mm / 1.25mm fine thread) and use that to cut out the paint. 2) The threads are wrong on both sides. In that case, you should just be able to go to your local hardware store and get 10mm / 1.50mm coarse thread bolts. If you messed up the threads too much, you might still want the coarse thread 10mm tap to clear out the threads you've damaged. When I used the tap, I did not have to use much force...no more than say 10Nm of torque if you have a torque wrench (total SWAG). But first you've got to determine which of the above is the case. If you've only tried threading from the outside-in, you should have some pristine threads on the inside (wheel side). If you have some way of measuring pitch depth, do that. I really recommend doing this...even it's counting threads like I discussed above...but there exists a little sawtooth tool that comes in many tap and die kits. If you don't want to measure, get a 10mm coarse thread (1.50mm pitch depth) bolt and gently try to thread it. In the seemingly impossible bad luck scenario it could have lots of paint and be the wrong pitch depth, you really will need to measure the pitch depth to know for sure before cranking it. Good luck and post up what you find out. Last futzed with by krakatak; November 29th, 2013 at 10:46 PM. Reason: Bad numbers in torque guess |
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November 30th, 2013, 12:30 AM | #14 | |
ninjette.org member
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Quote:
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November 30th, 2013, 01:28 AM | #15 |
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I had to re-tap the holes for the swingarm spools on my 250 because they were rusty from never being used. They started cross-threading @rojoracing53's spool bolts lol. After cleaning up the threads though, a set of standard 10mm spools went on with no problems.
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November 30th, 2013, 05:54 AM | #16 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
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Because the OP bought a ninja 250 I have to assume they are a newb and thus I'm sceptical about the ligitamacy of their perception of the situation. But hey as long as it's fixed now then bravo
I like to start my days with some sarcastic humor, so carry on people |
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November 30th, 2013, 06:36 AM | #17 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Josh
Location: St. Louis, MO
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Quote:
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November 30th, 2013, 06:42 AM | #18 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50, Posts: A lot.
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Then congratulations you can now add accomplished sense of humor, and pro Ninjette mechanics to your list of degrees because you Sr. Have earned it.
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1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
November 30th, 2013, 08:04 AM | #19 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Josh
Location: St. Louis, MO
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Quote:
Still got my amateur status. :-) Last futzed with by krakatak; November 30th, 2013 at 09:25 AM. Reason: posting on a phone sucks |
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November 30th, 2013, 09:39 AM | #20 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
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Quote:
If you can insert a rod of wood or any soft material into the hole of the spool, you can push it against one side and obtain some indentations of the crests. Counting how many spaces fit within 1/2", you can exactly determine the pitch. 8.5 spaces means pitch of 1.5 mm 10.1 spaces means pitch of 1.25 mm 12.7 spaces means pitch of 1.0 mm
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November 30th, 2013, 06:58 PM | #21 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
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If your going to work on your own stuff car, moto, bicycle, it couldn't hurt to have one of these in your tool box.
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May 15th, 2014, 01:17 PM | #22 |
EX500 full of EX250 parts
Name: Bill
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Just another anecdote, but the 250 swingarm I got off eBay (advertised as an '09 with 10K on it) had 1.5 pitch threads for the spool bolts. I picked up a M10-1.25 tap to clean up the threads, but it stopped basically as soon as it got past the taper. Forcing it further took quite a bit of effort, as one would expect when cutting new threads. I got a M10-1.5 tap, and it slid right through the paint like a hot knife through butter.
The swingarm is in great shape and nothing leads me to believe it's not completely stock. I can't say for sure since it's a used part off eBay, but everything points to this being the way Kaw shipped it out. I just wanted to point out that it seems some of these did come with 1.5 pitch threads. Apparently krakatak got the one where they actually made the switch. =) If you have a gauge (or extra bolts), I suggest double-checking the threads before you order your spools, rather than just assuming they'll be M10-1.25. |
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May 16th, 2014, 05:43 AM | #23 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Josh
Location: St. Louis, MO
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r Posts: 41
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confirmation?
Thanks for posting your experience. This happened forever ago for me, but it still haunts me. Maybe I did miss something obvious...but I tried everything I could think of and didn't find any other answer.
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May 16th, 2014, 07:01 AM | #24 |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
Location: Newnan, GA
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.
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The '05 tank recall happened because some tanks left the factory with the notorious leak that a lot of people cause themselves by inserting longer bolts into the tank.
Why? Because some tanks had to have those threads tapped after painting (rework) and the tap they used was too long. Knowing that these are also prone to having paint in the threads, I wonder if something similar is happening and they are, once again, using the wrong tap. |
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May 16th, 2014, 09:41 AM | #25 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
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i was thinking this was going to be about mismatching colors. now i am sad.
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