Air Traffic Controller

[ScraitT]

---Story/Background (read if your bored, otherwise skip)---

So, with the economy in it's current shape, my current degree is basically useless. I spend years in school getting a Bachelors in Architecture, only to graduate into a failing economy. Everyone I know who had jobs in the field, no longer do. Even when the economy does start to turn around, it will be very difficult to get a job because hundreds of people out there are looking for the same positions who have experience. I never got the chance to even experience my field.'

I've been searching for jobs, but I have yet to find anything even remotely appealing out there. (I am not desperate, I have plenty in the bank and no bills, so I don't need a minimum wage job)

So I'm thinking the next best thing would unfortunately be to go back to school. Not something I am looking forward to, but it would be the best thing for my future. Continue studies, and hopefully the economy is somewhat changed when I'm done.


---Degree Type and School---

Unfortunately a degree in architecture is an arts degree. Most other degrees are science degrees, so if I wanted a degree in say, construction management or engineering, I would have to retake a bulk of my core classes, spending lots of money and almost another 4 years in school. I don;t want to take that long so I'm ruling bachelor degrees out.

Thats leaves Associates of Applied Science degrees. (2 years)
Broward College is right down the street from my house, and though it's now a "real" college...at it heart, it's still a community college....which has the benefit of much cheaper classes. They offer quite a few AAS degrees, which I'm assuming I can do in 1.5 years or so. A few of my classes will transfer over, such as english, humanities, and math, which saves some time and money. They also assume for two years as taking only 15 credits a semester. For my other degree I was taking 20+ credits some semesters, so I think I can complete this degree quickly.


Interested Degrees

There are really only two AAS degrees that caught my eye. Air Traffic Control, and Accounting. Both degrees require math, which is extremely easy and enjoyable to me. The Air Traffic Control is basically an aviation degree, and it;s really required to become an Air Traffic Controller, but it helps in getting a job, which is important right now.

I'm not sure which types of jobs I could actually get with only a 2 year accounting degree and not a full Bachelors. I don't know the field potential or pay rate, but it looks slightly below average by looking on salary sites. Again, I'm not sure about specific jobs though.

Air Traffic Control seems most interesting. You have to be under 30 years old to even enter the field, and you are usually required to retire by 56. Pay is low in the beginning, but well above average after you get out of training. 10 years+ experience supposedly brings will over 100k a year. Back in 2006, the field was jokingly easy to get into because they didn;t have enough people, now days though I'm not as sure. According to the FAA website, they are only hiring trainees right now who have gone to school and gotten a degree from a certified school (which BC happens to be)


Questions

So my main question is, does anyone have any experience of any type in the above fields? Or possibly friends in the field?
Any advice or knowledge into the fields would be appriciated

[Greg_E]

Air trafiic controller is not what you think. I know someone that went through this and the last step is to work at a specific facility where EVERYONE has to go, you are looking at about three years.

As far as an additional degree, whoever explained it to you is wrong, you should be able to get the majority of your core courses to transfer. Sometimes you need to fight for them, but the majority of basic English, Math, History, etc., should go. They always try to get as many years out of you as possible, basically they want the money.

And finally since you have a 4+ year degree, go to the next level in the new field that you want to entertain (BA to masters, etc.). Now if I read it wrong and you only have a 2 year degree, then you should still be able to cross train and get done in about 2 more years. Basically pick the degree you want, make an appointment with a transfer adviser (or counselor) and start talking. You are going to need the course catalog from your previous school so you can compare the classes that you took to the classes needed for the new degree and then prepare for the fight to convince them that what you took is the same as what they offer.

[Greg_E]

I just reread your post, go for a Masters in something, it can be done in one year if you put your nose to the grind stone, or part time in three to five years, and you should only have to take courses that you will need to pass the classes which might mean some additional math if you go for an engineering degree which really makes sense with the architectural degree already behind you. Why not pick an vehicle engineering goal or something like that, car companies are not going away. Combine with electronics to get moving toward the electric vehicles. Just a couple more things to think about. Definitely pick something you have a passion for, not just what you think will give you lots of money. You'll never be happy unless you are doing something that you have a passion to do!

[tjkamper]

I would get an MBA. You already have the skills for architecture. Now learn how to manage a company. It can help you if you want to stick with your current field choice.

[ScraitT]

A lot of my core courses seem like they don't transfer over toward a second bachelors. Math, English, and Humanities do, but I'm not so sure about the others. I took history of Architecture, but that counts as a Humanities class, now history. So it's really only maybe 5 classes that would transfer, which is only 1 semester on a 8 semester (4 year) degree...thats a lot of work for another bachelors.

As for a Masters. My biggest issue with a Masters in Architecture is that I haven't worked in the field at all yet. It really bothers me to work toward extending a degree in a field I may end up hating. It's also a field I don't see turnin around enough to get a job in 2 years when I would (should) graduate.

The other issue I have with a masters is cost. Classes are rediculousely expensive, which is BS. In architecture, I took some of the same classes with the Masters students (half and half class) and the work, tests, and assignments were 100% identical. The only difference was them paying 3x the amount.
I know if getting a "masters" degree which earns you more later one...small investment for the future, but it bothers me. I have never held debt in my life, and it's something I pride myself on. Even buying the 250r, I had it paid off in 3 months. Debt bothers me

A Masters or second Bachelors would also most likely mean returning to FIU. While I love the school, I do NOT love the drive to Miami. The AAS degrees interest me most because they are at Broward college, a stones throw away. The traffic infested 75 mile daily trip to FIU drives me crazy.


As for Air Traffic Control. It's not because of the money. I of course want a decent paying job (I'm not looking to make 100k a year, but I also don't want to struggle to live on only 30k), but that isn't why I looked into it.
Planes have always interested me...Air Traffic Control, from what I read, combines planes with math and some strategy. Math is something I enjoy, and planes interest me, so it seems like a very interesting job.
It interests me more then architecture at the moment, but having no experience in either, it's hard to tell.
Also, after the optional degree in ATC and passing the FAA test, I know that is just the start. You are then sent to Oklahoma for a training program (usually 12-16 weeks), and then look for job placement in a entry training position.
However that portion is all paid for, though the entry level position starts low at 17k a year (we all start somewhere).


Thanks for the advice thus far, I really am taking it all in and thinking about it all

[ztrack157]

The trick for making money as an ATC is where you are able to get placed. An ATC at O'hare makes more than one working at say Tallahassee. Usually the higher the stress level the higher the pay. I have been looking into being an ATC for a few years.

[ScraitT]

Have you done any training or taken the AT-SAT?

[backinthesaddleagain]

Sometimes masters level classes in business are offered off campus. Sometimes at businesses or satellite campuses. I have a BS in accounting since '87. Though I was never a big fan of accounting it has always enabled me to work regardless of the economy. It is also helpful in any business position to have a working knowledge of finance and its relation to whatever the company's operations are.
When the whole local area network thing became popular and pc based accounting software replaced the bigger systems I used that to launch what I do now. Around '95 we went to a windows NT network with a pc based accounting system. I took responsibility of the project and later became an accounting software consultant. That led to database work, reporting, and network administration (different areas of IT, but when a client knows you as an IT consultant they think you know all things IT so even if you are specialized you need general skills). Eventually I went to work for a client, where I am responsible for all systems (databases, accounting and ordering systems, web design - my weakness, and LAN/WAN admin).

After all I typed here, and if you are still reading, my accounting knowledge still weighs heavily in all I do and am asked for input on. It helps in preparing my IT budget, assisting accounting with their systems needs, and having a say in what we do as a company.

All in all, an accounting degree never hurts.

[ScraitT]

One of the main reasons I considered accounting was that math is extremely easy for me and I enjoy it. Thats actually part of the reason I got into architecture...I liked math and drawing...turns out architecture virtually never uses either! It's all computer based now days, so you don't need any artistic or math skills. I'm guessing that accounting is similar, I'm sure it uses math, but I'm sure unfortunately most of it is done on the computer now days.
But in general, I assumes accounting would be a good degree as a general backup to my current degree. And that's my biggest incentive for it.

Once thing that bothered me however was looking online today at jobs and salary rates...with an AAS in Accounting, it seems all you really can be is an assistant. The salary range was like 11-17 an hour. I don't want to sound greedy and like money is everything, because it's not, but I don;t want to spend time on a degree that can only get me a job that I would struggle to get by. I make 16 an hour now at my job I've had since I was 13. What incentive does that degree give me?


The more I look into and research it, Air Traffic Control is seeming more and more interesting. I was playing around with a few online simulators today and found it interesting. I'm sure they are far different then the real world, but none the less, interesting.
When I was younger (about 16) I actually got a chance to briefly fly a helicopter...nothing major, just took over the controls in the air...but since then, I've always had a side interest in aviation. So that may be why this particular job interests me.

[backinthesaddleagain]

You are correct that computer does most of the math in acctg. There are some formulas (formulae??) to learn but mostly acctg rules. ATC would have more interesting topics I would agree.

[greg737]

You sound interested in the ATC job. I think it's an important factor in a person's overall quality of life to go into a field they're truly interested in as opposed to simply chasing the almighty dollar. I know that not everyone gets the luxury of "chasing a dream" but if you can even come close to a dream that I'd say go for it.

I was also very interested in aviation. I had no real guidance from my parents and I didn't know anyone in the aviation field, so I ended up going through college without any specific plan in mind and got a degree in Computer Science for no better reason than it was the 1980's and computer science was the hot, developing field with tons of job opportunity at the time. The main thing I learned, though, was that I didn't want to work in computer science. I wasn't going to be happy there, I could feel a career of disappointment coming.

The computer science degree did come in handy because I finally got my head straight and decided to chase my dream. The degree helped me qualify for an Air Force pilot training slot in the fall of 1989. Now it's 2010 and I just retired from the Air National Guard and I'm 10 years into a commercial flying career with Southwest Airlines.

It might be a good time to look at the ATC job. If I remember correctly, the ATC field has a lot of old guys right now (lots of them are nearing retirement age). I'll ask a friend of mine what the situation is. Her sister is a controller at New York Center (enroute). May take a day or two to get the info, but I'm interested to hear what she has to say about the ATC career field.

[ScraitT]

I would much rather do a job I enjoy and make 40k a year then do something I hate an make 80k a year. A job isn't something you change every few months, so it's important to enjoy it.
Another thing I strongly believe in is vacations. Life is short, get out and enjoy yourself as often as you can. I would rather drive a lower model car and be able to put away money a month for vacation then drive a high end car.


ATC is something I just started looking into 2 days ago, and the more I look into it, the more it interests me. My biggest concern would be spending the time for it, and then not having any job openings. They list trainee openings on the FAAs job search right now, I just hope they are still in demand in 2 years.
That was my problem with architecture. Starting college, the job field was in HUGE demand. Then the economy tanked and theres nothing now, especially in architecture.

ATC right now, from what I have read, SHOULD be a growing field. In the early 80s, Regan fired all striking ATCs, and new people were hired. Part of the requirements for an ATC is that you have to be under 30 to start, and you (usually) have to retire by 56. There was a HUGE influx to fill the positions in the early 80s. It's 30 years later now, so someone in their mid to young 20s will be reaching the 56 age limit. So there SHOULD be positions all over starting to open up.
I know on the FAA job search theres quite a few upper level positions available...probably 40...which is a lot in this economy.
So my hope is that IF i decide to do this, that in 2 years time when I finish classes, the economy will be in a better state and they will be accepting more ATCs. From what I read, back in 2006, they were in desperate need of them...but now that they economy plummeted, I'm not sure.

Thanks for the info Greg, I'd be very interested in anything else you happen to find out. So you fly for SouthWest now? What are you flying, a large commercial liner?

[komohana]

i work at the pacific missile range facility here on kauai. it's a navy air, surface and underwater range where all branches of the military come to train. we simulate combat threats and targets both electronically and physically, as well as support special operations including ballistic missile defense testing. after 4 yrs. as a tactical aircraft technician (F-4E's) in the usaf i returned home and worked as a civilian on navy helicopters (H-3's) for over 20 years. when the navy dissolved their aviation section and contracted aerial support services out, i lost this position in 2006. i was fortunate enough to retain employment with ITT, who contracts services to the navy, as an electronics technician, operating and maintaining a tactical tracking system used by air traffic controllers and air intercept controllers in support of range operations here. traffic controllers hold numerous positions within the range support section. range controllers direct aircraft on the range, other controllers are used as tower operators controlling airfield traffic. other controllers are range control coordinators who control multiple assets while directing operations in a range control room that looks like nasa's mission control. there are so many different types of atc functions out there that require responsible personel who accept the stress,challenges and rewards this career has to offer.

good luck in whatever you do decide to pursue.

[Greg_E]

Everyone thinking they are definitely going to start at a job paying more than $40,000 a year with no experience is dreaming. Since making $30,000 is so below you, you better be damn good. All of our students think the exact same thing, no one can be bothered with jobs that don't pay top dollar even though they have no experience.

[ScraitT]

I definitely don't expect to start at 40k. Starting salary for ATC training is listed at 17k, which is horrible, but like I said, everyone starts somewhere. As long as I have the opportunity to grow and work my way up to making more, I am happy.

I just don't want a career that will max at 30k, especially since I make over that now. 30k might be ok if I lived somewhere else, but where I live now, it's very very difficult to live on 30k a year.

[greg737]

Originally Posted by ScraitT

Thanks for the info Greg, I'd be very interested in anything else you happen to find out. So you fly for SouthWest now? What are you flying, a large commercial liner?

This is how I roll....

[ScraitT]

Wow, I have to admit, that's pretty awesome. How do you like it? Whats you schedule like...like how often are you away from home?

[greg737]

You have to love flying jets.

For me there's nothing that compares with the experience. It's hard to find a (regularly repeatable, legal, heathy, and non-narcotic) experience that always puts your psyche into the top tiers of Maslow's heirarchy of needs (self-actualization, peak experiences), but flying jets does it. It leaves me feeling very satisfied with life.

It's like a drug they can't test me for.

When I'm walking out to the airplane I sometimes think of the quote from Ferris Bueller's Day Off where he's talking about Cameron's Dad's Ferrari 250 GT California SWB, "It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up."

It has to be good to make me willing to deal with all the other things that go with the territory: FAA oversight, checkrides, training classes, twice yearly physicals, drug testing, being away from home up to 12 or 13 nights a month, lots of hotels, waiting on hotel vans, airport food, being away from my kids, missing milestone moments in my kid's lives.

I wouldn't change a thing. Air Force active duty & Air National Guard, twenty years total, I saw the world. Southwest Airlines, I'm overnighting in 50 different cities throughout the year, and captain's pay isn't bad.

(Hey, I just hit 100 posts!)

[ScraitT]

That's great. As mentioned earlier, there's nothing better then a job you love!

I had actually been thinking about that as a side benefit to being a ATC...getting a pilots licence, not commercial, just private. I know ATC doesn't relate to actually getting a license, but it seems like it would be a bit more convenient. I've always thought about a heli license actually

Motorcycles in general give me that amazing feeling, especially riding offroad. I also love Diving (scuba). And I can only imagine the experience of flying a plane. Even cars (well not being stuck in traffic) give me joy.

I consider you an extremely lucky man Greg Thank you for sharing your experiences

[BlueRaven]

I always thought ATC was one of the most stressful jobs out there. I had two friends and both their fathers were ATCs. One of them turned to alcohol and the other was a calm person and a great strategist, he held a position at the national level.

If your really good at math and love a challenge i would suggest going for the ATC course.

[Sailariel]

Tyler, You may want to talk to an Air Force Recruiter and research getting your controller training through the Air Force. The military offers transition training for people returning to civilian life. The Air Force does have controllers and they are well trained.