Predicament: Advice Needed.

[Mako]

Hokay. So. Here's teh earth.

Anyways - I am stuck in a pretty tough situation.

So I have been looking for a Ninja for the past 2 months - and 8 out of the 9 bikes I have gone to check out have been bought out from under me before I even had a chance to physically LOOK at the bike itself. The most recent one (#9) was flawless...except for a rusted tank and the seller wasn't even going to offer a price drop. Yeah, no.

Now, my situation goes like this: Every week I don't have my bike, I lose more money. (Gas is now $4.26 and my truck, '89 Tacoma only gets 13mpg which equates to me spending roughly $65-$75 a /week/ on gas.) I have been suggested/told/convinced to buying a used bike over buying one from a dealer since I even started saving up for one, yet I am actually losing more money per week and I can't afford to keep spending so damn much on gas. So, basically I am asking your guys' (and girls) advice and or experience with purchasing a bike from a dealership. (Also, if anyone has experience from purchasing with Mission Motorsports).

One thing that could make it or break it for me is, I am 20yrs old, and need to start building credit. A small auto loan should help right?

Thank you in advanced for even reading this.


- Jordan

[blink]

Hey man, personally as you have been already doing, I would go for used, but I udnerstand that finding one isn't too easy.
Anyways the thing you should remember is that a bike from a dealer will be reliable because they will not lie nor sell anything with problems, atleast without telling you; it is illegal since they are known as a qualified trust dealer or whatever you call it!

The ONLY thing you have to remember is that you will be paying MUCH more than you can...should. I mean if you have the money; do it. But my story is that I bought an '08 with 15000 km (NOT miles) for 3000 CANADIAN, and it runs perfect. It only has the side lights plastic cracked from being dropped. But it doesnt bother me. Everyone complains oh too much mileage, but the truth is they will last (even stated in kawa manual; maybe they say 35) easily over 40000km if you do regular maintenance! At my MSF there was an 02 ninja zzr with 104000 km and it was running fine.

So take that into consideration too! Maybe you'll find a used one but the only thing being a bit iffy is the mileage, remember that mileage isn't a concern if its running well and has been cared for!


Goodluck!

[Hawk637]

They probably won't finance you.a motorcycle is considered a leasure type vehicle. Falls into same category as a boat. To finance that you need pretty much a1 credit and a good job to cover expenses.best bet is keep looking and you'll find a decent bike.

[Bigballsofpaint]

If your looking for a ninja 250 you may as well get it from a dealership, unless your looking for the older style. It seems around here the 08s and up hold their value very well. I dont see why you wouldnt be approved for a loan, even with not the best credit, you may just pay a higher interest rate. At the price of a new ninja, its really not that bad anyway. Like you said, the mere savings in gas could end up being your bike payment and then some.

[Mako]

Originally Posted by blink

Hey man, personally as you have been already doing, I would go for used, but I udnerstand that finding one isn't too easy.
Anyways the thing you should remember is that a bike from a dealer will be reliable because they will not lie nor sell anything with problems, atleast without telling you; it is illegal since they are known as a qualified trust dealer or whatever you call it!

The ONLY thing you have to remember is that you will be paying MUCH more than you can...should. I mean if you have the money; do it. But my story is that I bought an '08 with 15000 km (NOT miles) for 3000 CANADIAN, and it runs perfect. It only has the side lights plastic cracked from being dropped. But it doesnt bother me. Everyone complains oh too much mileage, but the truth is they will last (even stated in kawa manual; maybe they say 35) easily over 40000km if you do regular maintenance! At my MSF there was an 02 ninja zzr with 104000 km and it was running fine.

So take that into consideration too! Maybe you'll find a used one but the only thing being a bit iffy is the mileage, remember that mileage isn't a concern if its running well and has been cared for!


Goodluck!

Oh I'm not too concerned about mileage at at all - the ones I've been looking at have had between 750 - 9070 miles on them. I know the pricing of the bike (even used) from the dealership will be much more, but at the rate I'm losing money with my current gas payments - I'm sure it will more than pay for itself.




Thanks for your input - I'll keep my eyes open for another week or so for a used one, but I'm not sure I can wait any longer than that =/ haha.


Thanks guys

[bdavison]

This may not suit you, but if you arent attached to the truck, why not take it to a dealer and do a straight up swap? If the value is there they might consider it.

Of course youd have to go purist two-wheels only.

Also, if you tell the dealer what you want (used 250r), they will likely find one to sell you. It might be worth the extra on the retail to have them find one for you.

[aristurtle]

Broaden your horizons a little bit: the Ninja250 is great and all, but so is the Ninja500, the Buell Blast, the Yamaha WR250X, the Kawasaki KLR650, etc. etc. Surely you can find something in that range cheap.

And don't finance your first bike. The insurance will be bad enough with just liability. If you finance you'll need to pay for collision/comprehensive as well; it'll bankrupt you.

[MikeMihelich]

The 250R really seems to hold it's value. People keep paying more for these bikes than I personally believe they are worth. It seems like buying one new is a good way to go. As for financing and insurance like was suggested here, it might be a bit harsh. Talk to the dealer to see what kind of financing they can offer you or talk to a bank or credit union. Check around on insurance also. Maybe check with who you insure your four wheeler with. I personally use progressive because they offer very great rates for me. There is no question that this is a good bike and you have found personally that they do sell on the used market. In that respect there is not TOO much financial risk in buying new.

Good luck and hope you get out on the road soon!

[nakedhunter]

It's basically summer now so used prices go way up and the bikes go very quick. If you could wait until fall you will once again find a whole slew of bikes for sale at bargain prices - but not in the summer, cash in hand and you will be almost guaranteed to pay well over blue book.
When I was selling mine, one buyer (19 yr old) really wanted it but was in the middle of a loan process. I held for him until the bank finished up and offered to loan him $500... And this was from a bank that gave MC loans. Even if you did happen to find a bank that would actually cut you a loan, I hope you have plenty to pay the difference.
If I was looking for a bike at this time of year and desiring a loan a dealer is really the only way I see that going.

When you calculate "savings" in fuel don't forget you may be making payments on the bike 4-6 months of the year that you are NOT riding for winter but it still may be worth it if you are spending $300 in fuel now.

[Mako]

Originally Posted by bdavison

This may not suit you, but if you arent attached to the truck, why not take it to a dealer and do a straight up swap? If the value is there they might consider it.

Of course youd have to go purist two-wheels only.

Also, if you tell the dealer what you want (used 250r), they will likely find one to sell you. It might be worth the extra on the retail to have them find one for you.

Well, I'm not "attached" to my truck, but I do need something I can rely on with "inclement" weather. (In California? Yeah I know..but still) And yeah, I've been going down to the dealership for the past year and a half just chatting with a couple of the sales reps, 2 of the bikes I was interested in were ones they had told me about.

As for insurance, I've done the whole "Get a quote" from multiple companies and progressive seems to be the least expensive for the most coverage for me.

Thanks again for the added info! I will definitely keep looking around =)

["A"]

I've never had a car loan in my life, never felt the need to buy a brand new car with a loan, when plenty of quality used cars can be found for under $3000 or even $2000 if you know what to look for.

Right now is not a good time to look for a used motorcycle, at least in my area. When the weather is becoming nice lots of new or returning riders are looking for a used motorcycle.

I bought my first Ninja 250 in the month of November, my current Ninja 250 was purchased back in Feb. Both purchased for under $1000.

[Flashmonkey]

Go used. If your primary concern is to save money then save as much money on the initial cost of the bike too. Go pregen 250. No point in counting all of the money you save on gas if you're just going to finance a new bike.

Edit: also...stop being so damn picky

[Too40gawlf]

Originally Posted by Mako

Hokay. So. Here's teh earth.

Anyways - I am stuck in a pretty tough situation.

So I have been looking for a Ninja for the past 2 months - and 8 out of the 9 bikes I have gone to check out have been bought out from under me before I even had a chance to physically LOOK at the bike itself. The most recent one (#9) was flawless...except for a rusted tank and the seller wasn't even going to offer a price drop. Yeah, no.

Now, my situation goes like this: Every week I don't have my bike, I lose more money. (Gas is now $4.26 and my truck, '89 Tacoma only gets 13mpg which equates to me spending roughly $65-$75 a /week/ on gas.) I have been suggested/told/convinced to buying a used bike over buying one from a dealer since I even started saving up for one, yet I am actually losing more money per week and I can't afford to keep spending so damn much on gas. So, basically I am asking your guys' (and girls) advice and or experience with purchasing a bike from a dealership. (Also, if anyone has experience from purchasing with Mission Motorsports).

One thing that could make it or break it for me is, I am 20yrs old, and need to start building credit. A small auto loan should help right?

Thank you in advanced for even reading this.


- Jordan

Jordan,

Im no expert on Toyota's, but with 13 mpg, Im going to assume you have the 3.0L V6 and not the 2.2L I4, correct? Even with the V6 something is wrong for you to be getting 13 mpg. If youre squeezing 13 mpg out of the I4, something is VERY wrong.

Anyway, you're motor is way in need of a tune up. Take the weekend, go to Autozone and buy a set of spark plugs, a new air filter, some 10w-30 high mileage mobile 1, a new fuel filter, and inflate all your tires to correct pressure (Im guessing ~32 psi). This should cost you $50-$60 and a couple of hours under the driveway. I almost guarantee you a 5 mpg increase.

If you got extra time and money, do a tranny and differential fluid change, and perhaps even a new set of spark plug wires or ignition (another $100 or so altogether).

Again, I dont know Toyota's, but an 89 Tacoma is a highly desired truck, especially the 4x4s. Google "89 Tacoma tune-up" for some instructions. I think with $150 or so and a Sunday's worth of work, you can get a whole lot better mileage out of your truck. For reference, my 4,000 lb 1995 Ford Bronco gets 13mpg with a 5.8L.

I know this is a Ninjette board, but can we get a pic of your truck?

Anyway good luck with the truck AND the bike.

[Too40gawlf]

By the way, what are your requirements (yr/color) and what is your budget?You've picked the absolute worst part of year to get a Ninja 250, but you should still bepatient and squeeze the trigger on the right bike and not just go willy nilly on something out of frustration.

[Domagoj]

If you use the truck to transport yourself and a lot of junk on daily basis you need your truck. If you drive to work and back with nothing except yourself and air in it, sell the guzzler and buy the ninjette. Weather is not so terrible problem, you can cope with everything except ice, really, but...

If you want to have both the truck and the bike, and if your budged is strained with just trying to save up for it, maybe it is not the best time. Recently I have found in 50000km test of Kawasaki er-6f (ninja 650) that maintenance, averaged, without fuel, costs about 9 euro cents per km. This is something to think about. After that, I did approximate for my expenses with the 250r, and it turned to be something like 7 euro cents per km. This is only the maintenance, not counting in extras and gear. Take that value, and divide by 2 for prices in America. See where that gets you.

You are young. Get a better job, fix your truck as Eric suggested, and buy a bike in November when most people want to get rid of them. Don't take a loan.

[blink]

Originally Posted by Mako

Oh I'm not too concerned about mileage at at all - the ones I've been looking at have had between 750 - 9070 miles on them. I know the pricing of the bike (even used) from the dealership will be much more, but at the rate I'm losing money with my current gas payments - I'm sure it will more than pay for itself.




Thanks for your input - I'll keep my eyes open for another week or so for a used one, but I'm not sure I can wait any longer than that =/ haha.


Thanks guys

Also what my buddy did he looked around other cities within a lets say 200-300 km radius! The drive there will be fun, bring a buddy who will drive your truck home and take that bike for a nice ride!

[Jinx250]

If you weren't stuck on the new body style, you'd be set. Plenty of 07 and older 250s all around LA and OC for decent prices.

[oroboros]

If you do your math...the money you save in gas over a year I doubt would hardly come close to the cost of the bike and added insurance. Adding a loan to that with interest? Really you just want a ninja and who can blame you
Once your honest with yourself you will figure out a way to get what you want. I would go with the tune-up on your truck, and perhaps sell it for a more economical car.
Posted via Mobile Device

[drowe531]

Originally Posted by nakedhunter

It's basically summer now so used prices go way up and the bikes go very quick. If you could wait until fall you will once again find a whole slew of bikes for sale at bargain prices - but not in the summer, cash in hand and you will be almost guaranteed to pay well over blue book.
When I was selling mine, one buyer (19 yr old) really wanted it but was in the middle of a loan process. I held for him until the bank finished up and offered to loan him $500... And this was from a bank that gave MC loans. Even if you did happen to find a bank that would actually cut you a loan, I hope you have plenty to pay the difference.
If I was looking for a bike at this time of year and desiring a loan a dealer is really the only way I see that going.

When you calculate "savings" in fuel don't forget you may be making payments on the bike 4-6 months of the year that you are NOT riding for winter but it still may be worth it if you are spending $300 in fuel now.

He's in CA so I highly doubt there will be 4-6 months of not riding. As far as I now a good majority of people ride year round except for a few odd days a year.

Originally Posted by oroboros

If you do your math...the money you save in gas over a year I doubt would hardly come close to the cost of the bike and added insurance. Adding a loan to that with interest? Really you just want a ninja and who can blame you
Once your honest with yourself you will figure out a way to get what you want. I would go with the tune-up on your truck, and perhaps sell it for a more economical car.
Posted via Mobile Device

Right now he said he is spending 60-75 a week, at 13 miles per gallon is roughly 18 gallons. So 18 gallons times 13miles is roughly driving 234 miles a week. Figuring at the ninja mpg low estimate of 50, that would only be roughly 5 gallons. So 5 gallons at 4.50/gallon puts his gas at 22.50 compared to 75 I used for these calculations. So a month he is saving roughly 210 in gas. I got a 3k loan for my bike and my monthly payment was 72 dollars. Even figuring it maintenance it will be about break even or less for the ninja.

There is also the prediction that gas prices will continue to rise which would make it even more savings in gas costs.

[Mako]

Originally Posted by drowe531

Right now he said he is spending 60-75 a week, at 13 miles per gallon is roughly 18 gallons. So 18 gallons times 13miles is roughly driving 234 miles a week. Figuring at the ninja mpg low estimate of 50, that would only be roughly 5 gallons. So 5 gallons at 4.50/gallon puts his gas at 22.50 compared to 75 I used for these calculations. So a month he is saving roughly 210 in gas. I got a 3k loan for my bike and my monthly payment was 72 dollars. Even figuring it maintenance it will be about break even or less for the ninja.

There is also the prediction that gas prices will continue to rise which would make it even more savings in gas costs.

THANK YOU for putting the numbers out there for me, really puts things into perspective.

I am still going to be looking for one privately sold, and I have one I am going to be looking at from a friend's friend who contacted me yesterday - he's not even going to put it up on craigslist or anything yet until I see it (Woo!) I'm checking it out on Sunday. Going to bring my "Used Bike Checklist" and a buddy of mine who has been riding for about 9 years to help look over the bike with me. It's an 09 with only 4300 mi. registered till May 2012. New tires put on 270 miles ago. Has had 500mi, 1500mi, and 3500mi maintinance checks as well as his own checks every couple hundred miles. Only mods he has done are a hotbodies fender eliminator, and shimmed the carb needles. Says it has some minor scratches on the left fairing from his girlfriend's car (or maybe he's just blaming her! haha) scraping against it in the garage, but never dropped. He's asking $3400.

Thoughts?

[Too40gawlf]

Originally Posted by Mako

THANK YOU for putting the numbers out there for me, really puts things into perspective.

I am still going to be looking for one privately sold, and I have one I am going to be looking at from a friend's friend who contacted me yesterday - he's not even going to put it up on craigslist or anything yet until I see it (Woo!) I'm checking it out on Sunday. Going to bring my "Used Bike Checklist" and a buddy of mine who has been riding for about 9 years to help look over the bike with me. It's an 09 with only 4300 mi. registered till May 2012. New tires put on 270 miles ago. Has had 500mi, 1500mi, and 3500mi maintinance checks as well as his own checks every couple hundred miles. Only mods he has done are a hotbodies fender eliminator, and shimmed the carb needles. Says it has some minor scratches on the left fairing from his girlfriend's car (or maybe he's just blaming her! haha) scraping against it in the garage, but never dropped. He's asking $3400.


Thoughts?

Sounds like a good deal. Take $3K in cash in one pocket and $400 in the other. If you like it, tell him you'll give him $3000 right now for the bike. If he refuses, hem and haw a bit and add a $100. Repeat the process until you get to $3400 or until her comes down some.

[voidrider]

PLEASE include the price of gear in these calculations.

Ball park figures (loose and fast), helmet, $100-$400, jacket - $75-$300, gloves $40+, pants, $150+, boots, $100 plus. Yeah, its a lot of money, but that investment can save you thousands if you have an accident and require medical attention. Even bottom of the barrel low quality riding gear is orders of magnitude better than regular shirts and blue jeans.

Add title and registration fees, and insurance, and in some situations people would actually save money just buying an affordable used econo-box.

Honestly, the only way I have read of people saving money with motorcycles is if they do all their own maintenance and ride with an eye towards economy. If you are going to do your own maintenance, you are going to need tools. I probably have close to a grand that I have invested in tools over the past 8 years, but that investment prevents me from being gouged by shop fees.

One of the things I love about my old Ninja is that I can buy a pair (front and rear) set of tires for less than the front tire for many "sport bikes".

Oh, and DO NOT trust a dealership to sell you a bike that has been "gone over and perfectly tuned". Some of the worst maintenance stories you will ever hear are with bikes having all sorts of broken or missing or mis-adjusted parts, FRESH from a dealership.

[bdavison]

Heres my cost for last year...
$1920 in gas - 8000 miles/50 mpg average/160 fillups at $12 average.
Changes out tires and brake pads -cost $260
Oil changes- $90 for 3 oil changes at $30 each

For an "econo box"
$12000 in gas - 8000miles/30 mpg average/266 fillups at $45 average
Oil changes- $90 for 3 oil changes at $30 each

Even against an econobox....the savings is substantial

You can even figure in insurance
$58 a month for full coverage insurance on 250r
$87 a month for full coverage insurance on "econo box"

Or how about ad valorum taxes
$50 for 250r
$137 for econo box

Or how about payments on a loan
$70 a month for the 250r
$257 a month for an econobox

No matter how you look at it...the ninja saves bukoo bucks

[Too40gawlf]

Originally Posted by bdavison

Heres my cost for last year...
$1920 in gas - 8000 miles/50 mpg average/160 fillups at $12 average.
Changes out tires and brake pads -cost $260
Oil changes- $90 for 3 oil changes at $30 each

For an "econo box"
$12000 in gas - 8000miles/30 mpg average/266 fillups at $45 averageOil changes- $90 for 3 oil changes at $30 each

Even against an econobox....the savings is substantial

You can even figure in insurance
$58 a month for full coverage insurance on 250r
$87 a month for full coverage insurance on "econo box"

Or how about ad valorum taxes
$50 for 250r
$137 for econo box

Or how about payments on a loan
$70 a month for the 250r
$257 a month for an econobox

No matter how you look at it...the ninja saves bukoo bucks

I see that math isnt your forte.
Are you trying to say your Econobox has a 1 gallon gas tank, or that gas is $45 a gallon,or that you wouldpay $12K to drive 8K miles?

[Mako]

Already have all my gear, haha I've had all my gear for about 6 months now. Hence my signature =P

And yes I will be doing my own maintenance, I have an ungodly amount of tools and I have multiple friends who are willing and able to help me and teach me.

[coondog]

Run to Wheels in Motion down in Chatsworth with what money you presently have saved and they'll make a deal on a used 08 with you. Remember that 5 year old ninjettes are going for what the owner paid for them 5 years ago, and with upto 15,000 miles on them. Go make a deal at Wheels dude.

[Cuongism]

Originally Posted by bdavison

Heres my cost for last year...
$1920 in gas - 8000 miles/50 mpg average/160 fillups at $12 average.
Changes out tires and brake pads -cost $260
Oil changes- $90 for 3 oil changes at $30 each

For an "econo box"
$12000 in gas - 8000miles/30 mpg average/266 fillups at $45 average
Oil changes- $90 for 3 oil changes at $30 each

Even against an econobox....the savings is substantial

You can even figure in insurance
$58 a month for full coverage insurance on 250r
$87 a month for full coverage insurance on "econo box"

Or how about ad valorum taxes
$50 for 250r
$137 for econo box

Or how about payments on a loan
$70 a month for the 250r
$257 a month for an econobox

No matter how you look at it...the ninja saves bukoo bucks

Your math is interesting . Just so people arent confused:

8000 miles at 50mpg = 160 gallons
8000 miles at 30mpg = 266 gallons

Difference is 106 gallons at $4 a gallon (as an average) = $424 in gas savings.

Unless your car gets awful mileage or gas goes to like $8/gallon, a bike doesn't really save you anything (chances it'll cost you more). You will probably get gear which itself will most likely cost more than any of your gas savings. Tires have to be changed more often than cars as well at 6k-15k miles depending on how your ride, but most likely under 10k so every year. Then you'll get the "mod itch" to add things to your bike.

But in the end, it's worth it .

[drowe531]

Ya but remember he said his currently gets 13, even with a tune up he's maybe looking at 20 mpg.

[speedgsx98]

For $3400, the thing should be pristine, not have scratches like it does. If you actually put down $3,400 on the title, you'll be paying $350 or so for tax and license. You can get a brand new 2011 for $4,500 OTD...basically $750 more with a 1 year warranty included. Def try to get it for $3k or a hair over if necessary. Be sure to tell the guy if he tries to hold firm on the price that what people ask for them and what they sell for are 2 different prices.

I used to sell bikes at a dealer a few years back. So, trust me on the numbers.

Oh, and if you do buy new, try to get them to do the first service for 1/2 off or something.

I just sold my car and bought my bike recently. No need to own a car with gas prices like this. On the few days a year that it rains, I can call enterprise rent-a-car. They'll pick me up and it'll be $30 a day or so =) Or I'll just call in sick ;-)

[Mako]

K, so I just got back. . . without a bike =(.

This thing had more than "a couple scratches from his girlfriend" it looked like he had ridden it through one of those narrow alleys in london. Also, he may have done a bunch of maintenance on the thing, but I took one look inside his gas tank and there was a full lining of rusty/deposit-y gunk. Didn't look like the bike had been moved in about a year. And it took 4 tries to start. Oh, and get this; so after all of the stuff I found wrong with the dang thing, I offered him 3k even and he refused and was set on the price. Oh, and the "new tires" were completely squared off. My friend estimated they had roughly 1200 miles on them. Looks like the hunt is still on haha.

Found this one and this one today. Worth checking out I think?

[Too40gawlf]

Originally Posted by Mako

K, so I just got back. . . without a bike =(.

This thing had more than "a couple scratches from his girlfriend" it looked like he had ridden it through one of those narrow alleys in london. Also, he may have done a bunch of maintenance on the thing, but I took one look inside his gas tank and there was a full lining of rusty/deposit-y gunk. Didn't look like the bike had been moved in about a year. And it took 4 tries to start. Oh, and get this; so after all of the stuff I found wrong with the dang thing, I offered him 3k even and he refused and was set on the price. Oh, and the "new tires" were completely squared off. My friend estimated they had roughly 1200 miles on them. Looks like the hunt is still on haha.

Found this one and this one today. Worth checking out I think?

Yes, both look good. The 2010 more so than the 08. As a general rule of thumb, especially if you are paying cash and can plunk down money right there - your first offer should be AT LEAST 10-15% below asking price. Remember a dealer is going to charge you ~10% sales tax and titling and registration fees - so on a 3K bike, that will be another $400-$500. If you negotiate 10% of the asking price, you alleviate the bite a bit.

[Mako]

Bought a 2010 Blue yesterday with only 1825 miles on it, pristine condition. For only $3500 =D.


Will post pics when i get off work!

[want1sobad]

congrats! search over.....ride safe

[Mizono]

Congrats on the purchase!!! looking forward to pics

[Too40gawlf]

Congrats on the bike prchase! Ride safe. We (just me) also want to see pics of the truck.