June 16th, 2013, 12:35 AM | #81 |
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June 16th, 2013, 05:20 AM | #82 |
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Name: Asspyre
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check voltage at battery terminals when running at idle,
after replacing my voltage regulator my idle voltage is 12.6 - 13.4 volts, when loaded (high beams on) it will go to about 14.4 - 14.7 volts. anything under 12.3 at idle is considered not charging, and you should be atleast 14v at 4,000 rpm and higher. before I changed the regulator I was having low voltage issues, and when the voltage is low weird thing happen to the tach. makes sure you do these test with a fully charged battery. |
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June 16th, 2013, 10:02 AM | #83 | |
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Quote:
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June 16th, 2013, 11:20 AM | #84 |
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June 16th, 2013, 01:17 PM | #86 |
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Picking that up on my lunch break. Thanks.
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June 17th, 2013, 07:42 AM | #87 |
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charged the battery and now it starts! Haven't gone for a ride yet, but the RPM tach meter is working. Success! Note my headlights still aren't working right. Deff going to pick up my fathers multimeter this evening and test my voltage again. I remembered the battery while running had 11.5v, should be 12.5 or such right?
Don't listen to old guys at autozone who are "pretty sure you don't have to charge this more expensive battery." I still had to charge it, but at least I didnt have to put that water or acid into it the OEM relay should be here this week, but I may swing by autozone and pick up that other one to use now to make sure that is actually the problem love this forum and hope everyone had a good fathers day weekend |
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June 17th, 2013, 08:00 AM | #88 | |
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Quote:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_to_...attery_is_dead "Check the voltage at the battery terminals, and make sure to record the voltage down to the tenths: 12.6v vs. 12v. Check the following values: -After the bike has been sitting for days, key off: No lower than 12.2v, and even that's pretty low. You really want more like 12.6-12.8. -As you're cranking the starter: No less than 10v. -At idle: Voltage should be no lower than the "sitting voltage" you measured above. -In normal rpm range (4000-9000): 13.8v is ideal, but anything 13.5-13.8 is OK. -Immediately (within half an hour) after a ride of at least 10-15 miles at over 4000 rpm, engine and key off: 12.8v or more. A day or two after that ride, key off: 12.6v or higher"
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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June 18th, 2013, 09:48 PM | #89 |
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So while I wait for my OEM relay to get here I purchased a cheapy 12 volt 30 amp relay from an auto parts store.
I wired it all up like this: the grey wire goes to post 30, the blue-yellow wire goes to post 87. The yellow-red and the red wires connect to post 85 and 86 indistinctly. After doing that the headlights still dont turn on. Is that correct way to wire the prongs? Also took a piece of heavy wire and connected it to the blue/yellow and the grey wire and the headlight's (low and high when switched to on and off) came right on! and stayed on when bike turned off with the kill switch. Of course after I turned it back on they wouldn't turn on unless connected with heavy wire... the OEM (what I thought was bad maybe its not? or is it?) will do the same thing w/ the heavy wire as well. Any ideas? |
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June 19th, 2013, 09:15 AM | #90 |
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been playing with it all morning, and cant get headlights to turn on.. gosh dang!
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June 19th, 2013, 09:57 AM | #91 | |
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Quote:
If you apply 12 volts between 85 and 86, the internal switch should close and you will have continuity between 30 and 87. If not, the relay is not working properly. With nothing connected to 85 and 86, you will have continuity between 30 and 87a, which the central tab that you removed.
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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June 19th, 2013, 10:00 AM | #92 |
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do you know where I can find out what color wire goes to what number pin again? I think you posted it Moto, but I cant find it.
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June 19th, 2013, 10:35 AM | #93 | |
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Quote:
-Gray goes to post 30 -Blue-yellow to post 87 -Red to 85 -Yellow-red to 86 If it doesn't work like that, switch 85 and 86: -Red to 86 -Yellow-red to 85
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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June 19th, 2013, 10:44 AM | #94 | |
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Quote:
I wonder if the cheap relay I bought from the auto store is bad? I can still take the heavy wire and touch the blue/yellow and gray wires to get the lights on, but this new relay isn't working? |
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June 19th, 2013, 11:06 AM | #95 | |
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Quote:
__________________________________________________
Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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June 19th, 2013, 11:11 AM | #96 |
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It's ok man! you've already done tons to help out. I really really appreciate everyone's help.
If the new oem relay doesnt work once I get it... I'll be taking the bike over to a shop. I really cannot figure this out and it's frustrating. |
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June 19th, 2013, 11:31 AM | #97 |
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Name: Asspyre
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posting from phone: did you check for 12 v at the red wire when running? check at the relay,
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June 19th, 2013, 11:51 AM | #98 |
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Name: Asspyre
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ok try this: turn key to on position, leave kill switch on run, but don't start engine. is there power at red wire? if yes, jump Grey wire to blu/yellow wire, lights come on? if yes, leave it jumped and check for power at red wire, is there voltage? if yes, remove jump wire from relay, is the lights still on? if no, is there power at red wire?
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June 19th, 2013, 12:55 PM | #99 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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June 19th, 2013, 01:19 PM | #100 |
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also just for fun I went and got the relay from autozone:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...er=203873_0_0_ yellow blue on 87. grey on 30. reds on 86 and or 85, switched with yellow red (tried both options for red yellow, and reds wire). Still nothing. I'm really doubting it's a faulty relay now. and don't think the oem one is going to make a difference. I will be running that test @Asspire when I get the meter back from my dad this evening. I do want to say though... that I have tested the red wire and was getting 11.5 volts there (this was when my battery was not charged lol! and was only getting 11.5 on the battery terminals). Will re-do tonight with a charged battery. |
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June 19th, 2013, 04:49 PM | #101 | |
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Quote:
2.)if I jump the yellow blue and gray wire together with the bike on the headlights do come on. After jumping yelllow blue and gray and with headlights on the red wire gets 10.8v - i get the same 10.8 voltage if the jump is removed (lights do stay on) as well if I keep the jump touching the blue yellow and grey wires. seems like I'm not getting that much power from the red wires until the blue yellow and grey wires are jumped. Where do the red powers come from? |
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June 19th, 2013, 05:33 PM | #102 |
Fix It Till Ya Break It
Name: Asspyre
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the voltage drop is notmal , so, there's a diode that feeds power to the red wire from the blue/yellow wire(this keeps lights on after kill switch is hit and key is in on position) from the diagram there should be another diode that feeds the red wire that is power by the yellow wire (stator feed).
so, we can conclude that I have no freaking idea what's going on. let get home and I'll recheck the diagrams again. |
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June 19th, 2013, 06:15 PM | #103 |
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Lol thanks man.
Does it mean anything that the red is only getting .2 volts? |
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June 19th, 2013, 06:44 PM | #104 | |
Fix It Till Ya Break It
Name: Asspyre
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no.
check diode pack b, there will be two red wires coming out of it, start bike and check them, they BOTH should have voltage when running. If it doesn't, the lights shouldn't work, jump the grey wire to blue again so that they do, leave the bike running, and check both red wires at the diode pack again. One of them should at least have voltage going thru it, the other (most likely the one across from the yellow will not. Follow this : Quote:
Last futzed with by Asspire; June 19th, 2013 at 06:45 PM. Reason: blah |
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June 19th, 2013, 09:49 PM | #105 | |
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Name: andrew
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Quote:
I cannot seem to find that wiring connector pack. I have a 2012 and still have my stock airbox. It's on the right side? I cant find it |
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June 19th, 2013, 10:10 PM | #106 |
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this is the only 3 yellow wires I could find. Maybe its different? or is this not it? this is on the opposite side of the bike
also what would happen if I was to just leave yellow blue and grey wires jumped? Would it hurt anything? |
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June 19th, 2013, 10:33 PM | #107 |
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Name: Asspyre
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Looks like they changed the socket, but that should be the stator connector. Since both red wires from diode pack have voltage after jump, we can assume diodes are ok. Did you test the wires after disconnecting jumper wire, or while its was jumped?
If diodes are good we need to look at the stator, ill see if i can get a 2012 service manual, wanna check that wire diagram |
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June 19th, 2013, 10:35 PM | #108 | |
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Quote:
If my stator is bad is that hard to replace? lol... also will riding with those wires jumped hurt the engine? And i sure am glad you're looking at those diagrams not me. lol. I'd have no idea what i'd be looking at |
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June 20th, 2013, 06:44 AM | #109 |
Fix It Till Ya Break It
Name: Asspyre
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Stator isnt hard to replace, but its not cheap.
Riding with it jumped wont hurt, but you'll still have the problem, and we dont know the cause of it and what other problem it can cause. Since you keep having a dead battery, im lead to belive you may have a stator issue. |
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June 20th, 2013, 10:07 AM | #110 | |
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Quote:
My old battery went dead (maybe due to time? im at about 14k miles or should OEM last longer?). I got a new battery which I didn't charge before throwing it in.. Is that why the new one went dad so fast maybe? Idk |
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June 21st, 2013, 05:25 PM | #111 |
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Soo I've been riding with my headlights "jumped". Had a jump on the yellow blue to grey wire annnnnd my battery is already dead again.
I'm pretty sure this has to be the stator? Thats what keeps a charge to the battery? I'll be checking out the stator yellow wires in a bit when my bike cools down (i just made it home when the bike was dying / battery died). What do you guys think... If I don't find anything wrong with the stator wires is it safe to claim that the stator is the issue? Also would a bad stator explain why whenever I'd rev the engine and be checking the voltage of the battery terminals my voltage never went up? Stator problem? |
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June 21st, 2013, 05:59 PM | #112 |
Board Member
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Stator problem
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June 21st, 2013, 06:18 PM | #113 |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
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Maybe I missed it somewhere but, there is another component to the electrical system that you haven't checked. The rectifier is responsible for converting AC power to DC power so that the battery gets charged. You can't store AC voltage in a battery, only DC.
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June 21st, 2013, 06:56 PM | #114 | |
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Quote:
oh where is that located? |
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June 21st, 2013, 08:46 PM | #115 |
Fix It Till Ya Break It
Name: Asspyre
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left side, above coil pack, looks like a heat sink
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June 22nd, 2013, 02:12 PM | #116 |
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Charging Voltage Inspection
•Check the battery condition(see Charging Condition Inspection). •Warm up the engine to obtain actual alternator operating conditions. •Remove the battery cover. •Check that the ignition switch is turned off, and connect the hand tester to the battery terminals. •Start the engine, and note the voltage readings at various engine speeds with the headlight turned on and then turned off. The readings should show nearly battery voltage when the engine speed is low, and, as the engine speed rises, the readings should also rise. But they must be kept under the specified voltage. •Turn off the ignition switch to stop the engine, and disconnect the hand tester. If the charging voltage is kept between 13.9∼14.9 V, the charging system is considered to be working normally. If the charging voltage is much higher than the values specified in the table, the regulator/rectifier is defective or the regulator/rectifier leads are loose or open. If the charging voltage does not rise as the engine speed increases, then the regulator/rectifier is defective or the alternator output is insufficient for the loads. Check the alternator and regulator/rectifier to determine which part is defective. Alternator Inspection There are three types of alternator failures: short, open(wire burned out), or loss in rotor magnetism. A short or open in one of the coil wires will result in either a low output, or no output at all. A loss in rotor magnetism, which may be caused by dropping or hitting the alternator, by leaving it near an electromagnetic field, or just by aging, will result in low output.
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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June 22nd, 2013, 06:08 PM | #117 | |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
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Quote:
The alternator supplies power (AC) to the coil side of the headlight relay, the rectifier supplies power (DC) to the switch inside the relay via a fuse. In between the alternator and headlight relay is Diode B. If the diode is bad it can also prevent the headlight relay from turning on the lights. Just something else to check before getting ass deep into the stator. |
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June 22nd, 2013, 08:43 PM | #118 |
Board Member
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I have two diodes if u need. I bought new ones chasing a problem and mine were fine.
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1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
June 23rd, 2013, 03:05 PM | #119 | |||
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Quote:
Quote:
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So I still have no idea what the problem is. I'm about ready to take this bad boy to the shop and have the professionals deal with it. The stator wires look fine I followed them from top to buttom. I don't have the tester handy this weekend, so not a lot of testing to do.. But at that wiring pack for the stator cables I tried to test it before like you said @Asspire and I could not get a reading. Neither ac or dc. I'm really believing my stator is the issue. It just makes sense, but i'm no where near 100% on that. Current issues with bike: -Headlights do not come on unless I jump the yellow/blue and gray wires at the relay. -My brand new battery has died on my twice now. Once after buying it (guy at auto zone said it didn't need to be charged) and riding to work with, and then once after I've had it on a battery charger to fully charge it and riding it around my town. I've tried 2 different auto parts stores relay's that should work and I get the same results as if my oem headlight relay was in there. So I'm not sure if this is the issue or not. I don't think it is... But I could be wrong. I checked out that rectifier as mentioned above, but I don't see anything wrong with it physically. All my wiring looks fine and don't see any obvious shorts anywhere. This is very frustrating. I'm really tempted to buy a used stator off ebay for like 50 bucks. It looks super easy to change out, and I would know if thats a problem or not.. idk guys! Thanks for all the continued help and support. Like I said I have learned a lot a long the way. My dad keeps telling me to just take it to the shop, but he doesn't understand wanting to learn myself and save LOTS of money... |
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June 23rd, 2013, 03:21 PM | #120 | |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
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