Brake pads

[94droptop]

So im gettting ready to rebuild my calipers, order stainless lines, and get some pads for my track bike build. I was looking into ebc HH pads. I had these on my R6 and loved them. I believe I have found the number for the front is FA129HH. But I can find the number for the rear. Is it the same? Different. Thank you. Worst case im sure I can get by with the OEM ones that are on the rear already, but Id like to upgrade if possible.

[csmith12]

Yes, it is the same part number front and rear. They are identical in every way.

Hold up, I am pretty sure I am wrong about that. Sorry, Lemme look at my numbers.

[csmith12]

Ah found what I bought a long time ago.

FA129HH - front
FA129V - rear

I am not 100% sure, but when I looked (as you are now) I also didn't find a sintered rear pad. The fa129v is semi-sintered.

Some brake manufacturers do not produce a sintered pad for the rear at all. :\ Maybe I missed it but just sharing what I purchased.

Maybe others will chime in soon.

[spent_too_much]

I just installed the HH pads this week. I can confirm that the front is FA129HH . I left the rear as stock ( so as not to lock up the rear on hard braking ).

BTW, for the front SS brake line, I ordered ( but have not yet installed ) the Galfer FK003D249 F.

[spent_too_much]

You may find this info helpful.

Stainless steel brake lines upgrade
https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Stainl..._lines_upgrade

Brake Pads
https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What_r..._I_consider%3F

[Ghostt]

On my 250 I have a wave rotor, and run EBC extreme HH, and on my 500 I have EBC full floating rotor and extreme HH pads.

I've left the rear OEM, in a hard stop aka panic stop the front brake does 99% of the stopping power, I've actually had the rear tyre off the ground when I practice my panic stops.

Here's my write-up on brakes,

I recommend that every time you change your pads, you service the calipers, he's my write-up to help you out. It should fix your initial problem, and keep your calipers in top working order.

For those of you whom are scratching their heads, here you go,*

Front Caliper Service (also rear as well)

Many folks have posted here with a Varity of front brake problems.

*Many of which are attributable to the lack of proper maintenance.

*Here’s how you can always have a brake like when your bike was new.

A short list of the problems and the causes.

Soft lever or lever goes to the bar.

The usual cause is the pistons are pushed too far back into the caliper by a flexing a warped, coned, disc.

*Using up too much piston travel before the disc is pinched.

Juddering in sync with wheel rotation.

The disc is worn, and its thickness varies. *This causes the caliper to “sink” into the thin part and when the thick part comes around, it gets wedged into a smaller space causing a tightening of the brake. Then the tight spot passes through and it like the brake is released. Then repeat, repeat.

Cupped, coned, or warped disc.

Unfortunately this is a common problem with EX’s the cause is the disc is stretched in the center due to being rigidly bolted to the wheel. *The huge force of braking is transmitted to the wheel through the webbed center of the disc which gets stretched and becomes larger than the space it occupies in the center of the disc. This causes the center to push to the side trying to find room for itself.

*Resulting is a cone shaped disc.

Soft lever 2

The caliper has pistons only on one side, so as the pads wear the caliper must shift sideways apply even pressure on both sides of the disc.

*To allow this the caliper floats on two pins. *If these pins get dry (no grease) dirty or bent. The caliper won’t center itself and bends the disc to wherever it is.

This take up lever travel and when released pushes the pistons further back than necessary.

*If not fixed will eventually destroy the disc (warp it).

Ok how to prevent all of the above.

When new pad time comes around, resist the temptation to just pop in new one and go.

*Every time you must do these things.

Remove caliper disassemble and clean it.

Clean and re grease the sliding pins.

Polish the caliper pistons to remove dirt. If you just push the pistons back into the caliper leaks will result. Or binding.

Tools required:
12 mm socket
8mm open end wrench
3” or bigger C clamp
a supply of new bake fluid.
wire brush and or steel wool.

Remove the caliper from the fork leg but leave the brake line on.

Remove the old pads and the mounting frame (the sliding pins)

Remove the cover from the Master Cylinder on the Handel bar.

Attach the C clamp to one of the pistons but don’t squeeze it. *Pump the lever on the bar slowly to push out the other piston almost all the way. *Put the C clamp on that piston and push out the other one.

Remove both pistons by hand.

Remove all the rubber part from the caliper, the seals are in the grooves in the caliper and dull pointed thingy will get them out easy.

Disconnect the caliper from the brake line.

Soak all the rubber parts in new clean brake fluid * ONLY!!!!! * Rub them with you fingers till as clean as new.

The caliper can be cleaned with a wire brush or even a Moto tool for the internal grooves, NOW’s the time to paint it if you wish.

Polish the pistons till they are smooth and shinny. They are chrome plated. If any of the plating is chipped or damaged below the dust cap groove. *Replace it.

The master cylinder is the subject of another write up and we’ll assume it in good working order here.

If you suspect your disc is bad, your bets bet is to replace it with an after market one fro EBC or Galpher.

*Don’t remove the disc unless you intend to replace it. *It will assume a new shape if it is * stressed and will not be flat again. You can try to check its condition by placing a straight edge across the face of the pad swept area looking for any distortion.

Re assembly

Take the nice clean rubber seals and install them into the caliper then the Dust covers.
Wet all the rubber with new clean brake fluid and partially fill the caliper with new fluid.

Push the pistons though the dust seals and into the caliper body until the dust covers snap into the grooves.

Fill the MC with new fluid and pump the lever while holding the Line above the MC till clean fluid flows.

Connect the line to the caliper while holding it above the MC.

Pump the lever with the bleeder valve open till fluid flow from the bleeder.

*Hold the caliper so that the bleeder is the highest point.

Close the bleeder and pump more fluid into the caliper but don’t push the pistons all the way out.

Then squeeze the pistons all the way back in and install the new pads.

Re grease the slider pins and assemble the dust seals and re mount the caliper on the forks but leave the bolts loose.

Now clamp the caliper to the disc with the brake lever.

Look at the space between the fork lugs and the caliper, clamp and release a few times as you tighten the bolts by hand. It one lug touches much before the other the odds are you mounting bracket is bent. You can straighten it.

*After you get it the best you can. Some shim washers made from alum can stock can be fitted to the loose side.*

** *What we are doing here is trying to minimize the bedd in time and gets the best pad life.


Ok with everything tight you should be through, Notice we don’t need to bleed the brakes, but if you screwed up in any of the above steps, you might do that here.

Be careful to Bedd in the new pads gently.

*Too much pressure too soon will burn the pad material as only a small area will be gripping at first. You also won’t have full braking power till the pads are fully familiar with the disc

I also recommend flush and fill with new brake fluid, also I'd go with 5.1DOT.

No matter what kind of brake fluid you choose, always periodically flush and fill with new fluid.

This is the one I use


https://m.motul.com/ca/en-us/product...-1-brake-fluid



Also inspect the brake lines, replace is needed, http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Stainle..._lines_upgrade

Venhill Introduction
Greetings everyone!

I wanted to take a moment to introduce you to Venhill...

Venhill manufactures some of the highest quality brake lines and cables you can get. We've been in business since 1971 and currently offer a full range of brake lines for the Ninja 250, first and second generations.

Our website, venhillusa.com, is setup to take orders for any year Ninja 250 as well as many other bikes. You can pick your bike and then customize your kits as you wish. We offer many different colors of hose as well as different finishes and materials for hardware. All of these options can be selected during the purchase process, so you'll be sure to get exactly what you want. You can even add length to hoses if needed.

To get an idea of our reputation, have a look at our eBay feedback.

If you have any questions or comments about Venhill products or brake lines or cables in general, please share them. I'm happy to be a resource for general information about brake lines and cables as well. Technical questions are welcome!

Please take a look at our website and let us know what you think. We just recently did a complete makeover and are interested in feedback. (venhillusa.com)

Have a great day and stay safe,

Chris
Venhill USA

For the detail oriented out there, some interesting things you might want to know about Venhill and our products:

Our factory is ISO 9001-2000 approved, which basically means we have the ability to consistently produce quality products. To qualify for ISO approval your factory and quality control mechanisms are evaluated as to whether your "good" products happen by chance, or if they are a result of good quality control.

All of our hoses are built to DOT/TUV spec and have been certified as such. We submitted hoses to the TUV (German DOT) for testing and only by passing are we allowed to use the TUV symbol on our hoses. Every hose we sell is built to these specifications, even if it is for track or offroad use only. It just makes for a higher quality product.

All of our hoses are hydraulically crimped, not hand crimped, and leak/pressure tested in a water bath. Yes, we immerse every hose we build in a water bath and pressurize it to check for leaks and to verify integrity of the crimps.

Venhill's hose core is authentic DuPont Teflon which is more expensive than generic "PTFE" but is stronger with a smoother inner bore. This is surrounded by 96 strands of braided marine grade stainless wire. 96 strands is more dense than some other braided line brands and the marine grade alloy is a stronger metal, which reduces expansion, the reason rubber hoses feel "spongy". Finally, we coat the braid with a UV-resistant PVC, extruded on during manufacture. This protects the hose as well as body and paint work.

Our hose design uses free-floating swivels, which allow you to loosely install everything before the hoses are tightened into place. This ensures the hose is not forced into a twist or kink when the banjo bolts are tightened. If you're worried about leaks, don't be. Our swivels work on the same premise as every threaded connection on a car or truck.

As you can see, we're sort of obsessed with quality and safety. We look at it this way: If we're asking you to put our brake lines on your bike, you're trusting us with the integrity of your brakes. That's a serious concept and we refuse to compromise when it comes to the integrity of your brakes.

I have these stainless steel lines on my Ninjette, and so far, some good, I recommend getting the stainless steel banjo bolts, I noticed my chrome ones have started to rust slightly, a good excuse for me to upgrade to titanium

On my 91 EX500 I have Spiegler, in orange to match that bike.

So you have made the decision that your OEM rubber lines need to be changed.

So why choose Spiegler Brake Lines?

A: Strength

That’s the short answer. But it doesn’t tell the whole story.

Spiegler Brake Lines strength comes from our innovation and research, materials and construction, knowledge and experience, service and support.

At Spiegler, we believe that the more you know about what we put into our products, the better you’ll be able to answer that question yourself.

That’s the short version; now let’s cover this topic more in depth.

Most OEM manufacturer recommend that you replace your rubber brake lines every 2 to 3 years. Why do the OEM’s recommend this? Over time OEM rubber lines deteriorate rapidly due to expansion and UV damage. This leads to increased braking distances and possible failure.

At Spiegler, our brake lines are made of only the finest materials available.

Outside casings are made of tightly woven stainless steel braiding that exceeds our competitors
The inside is made with DuPont’s PTFE-Teflon which eliminates expansion and adds durability
Crimp sleeves are made from stainless steel; competitors are using mostly carbon steel
Unique patented adjustable banjo fittings eliminate line twist during installation.
30% weight savings in comparison to other stainless steel braided brake lines
DOT approved
Lifetime warranty
117 color combinations possible which allows customers to personalize their bikes
We can build your lines to any specifications for custom applications
All brake line kits come ready for install

For more information on why you should choose Spiegler Brake Lines, you can view the following pages for a more detailed look into Spiegler brake lines.

When it comes to safety items like brakes, when in doubt, throw them out, it's your safety in your hands, and is cheaper than a visit to the ER.

Buy quality pads,I personally recommend EBC brand either the HH, or the Extreme HH.

EBC full floating rotor, replace the OEM rubber line with a stainless steel braided brake line, cheaper than replacing them with OEM.

On my 500 I have Spiegler line

http://www.spieglerusa.com/brakes/cy...line-kits.html

On my Ninja 250 i went with Venhill

http://www.venhillusa.com/products.html

With all that, it will stop on a dime, and leave you nine cents in change.

look here http://ebcbrakes.com/products/motorcycle/

And also read this, http://www.ex-500.com/wiki/index.php...otors_and_Pads

That should answer any questions you might have.


Below is a picture of my brake setup on my 500 EBC full floating rotor, titanium caliper bolts, rotor bolts and banjo bolt.

Ninja 250 Wave rotor, titanium caliper bolts, rotor bolts and banjo Bolt.

[94droptop]

Thanks for the numbers and advise. I will def be rebuilding/cleaning up both calipers, and doing stainless lines. Looks like I might just leave the rears stock for now. Trying to do a track day ninja build for under $1000.

[DannoXYZ]

Track bike can totally be done for not much at all. Suspension upgrades makes HUGE difference.

- stiffer fork springs for your weight off eBay with matching thicker fork oil.
- rear-shock from new-gen bike
- wheels from new-gen bike lets you use some very sticky rubber not available in pre-gen sizes.

[94droptop]

Well I have rebuilt my forks with new seals and oil. Prob going to splurge on some sonic springs, I have a zx600 rear shock with fresh oil. And for at least the first season to save money and make sure I enjoy it. Im going to stick with the stock wheels. I doubt I have the skill to need to upgrade to super sticky tires.

[DannoXYZ]

Yeah, I learned most in beginning by using stock tyres. Much more forgiving and slides easier and longer, giving me chance to catch it. Sticky tyres may have higher limit, but also goes over that limit quickly and suddenly. One moment, they're sticking like mad, then they'll slide just 6" and you're on ground with no warning.

[94droptop]

Originally Posted by JacRyann

Yeah, I learned most in beginning by using stock tyres. Much more forgiving and slides easier and longer, giving me chance to catch it. Sticky tyres may have higher limit, but also goes over that limit quickly and suddenly. One moment, they're sticking like mad, then they'll slide just 6" and you're on ground with no warning.

Just noticed your fairly local to me. Where do you recommend for a track day?

[csmith12]

Cool! For a budget track day build, you can skip the steel line for the rear. Unless your riding style lends itself to using the rear brake, the only time you will need it is advanced levels of riding, in the paddock or in the grass. lol Also, the stock rear pads will be just fine for a track day as well.

My sig has an awesome list of tracks all over the continental US. As far as the orgs go, I hope someone near you can point you in a direction that helps you the most.

As far as tire choices go for your stock wheels, get you a set of sport demons and roll out. They are great for a first track day. Not super sticky, with a low breaking point, but not the stockers either. For the most part, the STOCK tires SUCK for a track day, but some riders have got a knee down on them. YMMV, imho... overbuy by one level of tire stickiness but don't go crazy and get 125 slicks.

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by 94droptop

Just noticed your fairly local to me. Where do you recommend for a track day?

Hi, you’re about 1-hr away from Sears Point Sonoma Raceway and also 1-hr from Thunderhill. Sears is tighter, more technical while Thunderhill is wide open with faster corners. Personally I like the facilities at TH, free power and WiFi, better food, better bathrooms, showers, etc.

Here’s my schedule for 2018, let me know when you want to come out, we can hang out.

2018 AFM+trackdays.xls

[jrshooter]

i left the rear pads stock. those suckers still look brand new.
thunderhill is really nice, and i really like pacific track time, when you go let us know, i try to hang around jack ryan at the track,

[94droptop]

Originally Posted by JacRyann

Hi, you’re about 1-hr away from Sears Point Sonoma Raceway and also 1-hr from Thunderhill. Sears is tighter, more technical while Thunderhill is wide open with faster corners. Personally I like the facilities at TH, free power and WiFi, better food, better bathrooms, showers, etc.

Here’s my schedule for 2018, let me know when you want to come out, we can hang out.

2018 AFM+trackdays.xls

I will def hit you guys up when I go. I'm hoping that I can get it all back together and running good in the next 2 months.

[94droptop]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Cool! For a budget track day build, you can skip the steel line for the rear. Unless your riding style lends itself to using the rear brake, the only time you will need it is advanced levels of riding, in the paddock or in the grass. lol Also, the stock rear pads will be just fine for a track day as well.

Well I wouldnt trust the stock rubber lines on this. Im pretty sure they have never been changed. The two bike I got were very neglected. Going to a local show to see about getting some lines made on Monday.

[Ghostt]

When it comes to brakes, when in doubt, throw it out, and replace. In the case of the brake lines, aftermarket is going to be cheaper than OEM, even if you go with Stainless Steel braided lines.

I did replace them on both of mine, just due to the age of the OEM ones.

With that said, you won't be using to rear as much/heavy as the front. I'd be sure make the front is 200% right in any case.

On my 91 EX500 it has drum rear, which is good, and I've installed the EBC grooved shoes on it. But I've invested in the front brake system as I've stated above, and it's money well spent without a doubt.

The best bang for your bucks is suspension upgrade, it's a total different bike when it's setup and dialed in for your weight and riding style, and it's cheap enough to do. Especially if you just cut and shim the front springs, and add heavier fork oil. Add a rear shock from a NewGen 250 or 300, and your set for cheap cash.

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by jrshooter

i left the rear pads stock. those suckers still look brand new.
thunderhill is really nice, and i really like pacific track time, when you go let us know, i try to hang around jack ryan at the track,

Originally Posted by 94droptop

I will def hit you guys up when I go. I'm hoping that I can get it all back together and running good in the next 2 months.

I got some good vids of JRshooter from last time out at Thunderhill here:

Link to original page on YouTube.

Dives right under me when I did little off-roading!

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[jrshooter]

oh jack im ready for the track, cant wait.