86' engine swap

Birthdayninja86 · March 2nd, 2012, 12:04 PM

Hey everyone, Im pretty new to the motorcycle world and im trying to figure some stuff out about the engine on my bike. I have a 1986 ninja 250 and im losing compression. im not exactly sure what to do.

One option im leaning toward is an engine swap. the only issue is i havent seen another 86 for sale around here. now my big question is would any of the other years mount up on an 86? from what ive read the engines for most of the year excluding the newest gen are basically the same. but what about the frame? if someone could let me know if i can do this it would be greatly appreciated (i dont have the money to buy an engine that wont fit)

Thanks
Chris

csmith12 · March 2nd, 2012, 01:13 PM

Welcome Chris, good luck with the bike.

ajmueller · March 13th, 2012, 07:06 PM

...it depends on your skill.

The '87 "E2" is the only other model that matches the '86 "E1."

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/I_have_...s_different%3F

This is an excerpt from that link:

"You can swap any '88-07 (F series) engine into an '86-87 (E series) chassis by swapping the alternator cover and flywheel from the older engine to the newer engine. By swapping the alternator covers you swap out the wiring and ignition pickup coils.
Once you remove the alternator cover on the 250, the flywheel is one bolt and a few special tools away. But, it does require (on a 1 to 10 scale) a 7+ skill/confidence level. So, if you don't have the kind of experience needed for this, the simplest way may be to take both engines (with alternator covers removed) to any decent automotive or motorcycle mechanic and ask them to swap flywheels. It should cost less than 1/2 hour labor for this work, depending."

In what kind of shape is your '86? As you found with the engine, it's getting harder to find good parts for the '86 and '87. I'm looking for an unbent pair of forks for an '87 myself. A good set of plastics is even more difficult to find. You may be able to part your '86 out for enough to pick up a newer model in some areas.

Best of luck!

fjyang · March 22nd, 2012, 03:52 AM

Don't forget to keep the cams and carbs from the 86 if you do swap the engine. The 86-87 has the bigger 32mm carb instead of 30mm 88 onward and the 86-87 cams has a more aggresive profile for top end power at the expense of mid-range.

Dont forget to swap the clutch cover also as it has a sound dampen feature the later version don't have.

The 86-87 are true sporting 250's but with each generation Kawasaki keep detune the engine for more beginner friendly mid-range as new riders don't spend time in 14k rpm heaven.

If you can take out the engine and bring it to a mechanic to redo your rings, you might save some labor that way.

choneofakind · March 22nd, 2012, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjyang

Don't forget to keep the cams and carbs from the 86 if you do swap the engine. The 86-87 has the bigger 32mm carb instead of 30mm 88 onward and the 86-87 cams has a more aggresive profile for top end power at the expense of mid-range.

The 86-87 are true sporting 250's but with each generation Kawasaki keep detune the engine for more beginner friendly mid-range

Get it dyno'd.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja_250

Quote:

The carburetor diameters were reduced 2 mm to 30 mm (1.2 in), the cylinder compression ratio was increased from 12.0:1 to 12.4:1, ignition timing advance was increased, and the rear sprocket was increased by three teeth to 45.[4][6][7] Reviewers reported that this made the engine more free-revving, reaching the high 14,000 redline more quickly, and the tested top speed increased by a few miles per hour

sounds like the 88-07 is actually the true sporting 250

fjyang · March 22nd, 2012, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Get it dyno'd.

sounds like the 88-07 is actually the true sporting 250

I did get it Dyno last year along with other 08+ 250's and it made 28hp while the air fuel mixture was way off the chart (meaning way too rich). The guy told me once I get it corrected (back off on shims and main jet) I'll easily see 30hp or more. The 08+ 250's are making 26-27hp tops with proper air fuel mixture. I did correct the jetting but never gone back to do another dyno run to verified the results.

Well, actually in Japan where 250 and 400cc class are super competitive, some race teams still pick the 86-87 250's as their weapons of choice after its been out of production for 25+ years for a reason

choneofakind · March 22nd, 2012, 07:34 PM

huh, learn something new every day i guess

shiftdrift06 · March 25th, 2012, 04:45 PM

Beautiful. I wish we have more aftermarket pregen parts.

CZroe · March 25th, 2012, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiftdrift06

Beautiful. I wish we have more aftermarket pregen parts.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=97650

Make your voice heard.

choneofakind · March 25th, 2012, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CZroe

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=97650

Make your voice heard.

I just wish we had more pregen full exhaust options that aren't expensive. I mean you newgen guys have Tyga full systems which are like $300 right??

geez that's what I payed for a pair of slipons, instead of for what should basically the same thing

fjyang · March 26th, 2012, 12:24 AM

When Area P develop the full exhaust system for the pregen's, they thought its going to sell boat loads as it was one of longest production bikes for Kawasaki from 88-07, almost 20 years. When its release to the market it didn't sell anywhere near it should give the amount of bikes on the road.

People scream for aftermarket parts and support and when its there, people don't put the money where it counts. My guess is that pregen bikes resale value have something to do with it, if your pregen is worth $1,500, you'll think twice spending 1/3 of your bike's worth on exhaust systems. When I picked up the exhaust for group sale last batch before Area P shelf the system, Kerry was pretty dissapointed by the response to the pregen systems in terms of units sold.

All the 86-87 250 racers I posted above are heavily modified and custom one off's and not many if anyone is going to spend time developing parts for bikes out of production that old. The front end conversion on these racers probably cost more then the bike and resale value is not high on priority list for dedicated race bikes.

I'm not saying pregen's are not great bikes, in fact ,they're better street bike then 86-87 will ever be for better power spread and you don't have to ring the neck past 12k to get power but 86-87 do have more peak power. What the 86-87 got also is lighter weight compared to all generation of 250's as kawasaki try to make the pregen's and newgen's size wise to a 600 then a 250 so when you see all 3 gens together the 86-87's are almost toy like in its proportions but at the same token its not pretending to be somthing its not.

CZroe · March 26th, 2012, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjyang

When Area P develop the full exhaust system for the pregen's, they thought its going to sell boat loads as it was one of longest production bikes for Kawasaki from 88-07, almost 20 years. When its release to the market it didn't sell anywhere near it should give the amount of bikes on the road.

People scream for aftermarket parts and support and when its there, people don't put the money where it counts. My guess is that pregen bikes resale value have something to do with it, if your pregen is worth $1,500, you'll think twice spending 1/3 of your bike's worth on exhaust systems. When I picked up the exhaust for group sale last batch before Area P shelf the system, Kerry was pretty dissapointed by the response to the pregen systems in terms of units sold.

All the 86-87 250 racers I posted above are heavily modified and custom one off's and not many if anyone is going to spend time developing parts for bikes out of production that old. The front end conversion on these racers probably cost more then the bike and resale value is not high on priority list for dedicated race bikes.

I'm not saying pregen's are not great bikes, in fact ,they're better street bike then 86-87 will ever be for better power spread and you don't have to ring the neck past 12k to get power but 86-87 do have more peak power. What the 86-87 got also is lighter weight compared to all generation of 250's as kawasaki try to make the pregen's and newgen's size wise to a 600 then a 250 so when you see all 3 gens together the 86-87's are almost toy like in its proportions but at the same token its not pretending to be somthing its not.

It's a given that people with a 250 don't care about performance as much as owners of other bikes. People with pregens often upgrade because they don't like the looks. Something tells me that cosmetic accessories that tap a huge market of cosmetic repairs and enhancements of dropped beginner-bikes has MUCH more potential. Tank covers, huggers, updated fenders, cheap replacement fairings, etc.

choneofakind · March 26th, 2012, 08:30 AM

yeah and when AreaP made the pregen system, they did a group buy. I had literally just spent 300 on my Two Brothers slip-ons 3 weeks before. I couldn't justify getting ANOTHER exhaust system. I'm still pretty sore about that with myself. Seriously if I hadn't gotten over eager and waited a couple weeks, I would have found something that was loads better for the same price. I think the GB price was like 325+shipping

March 2nd, 2012, 12:04 PM	#1
Birthdayninja86 ninjette.org newbie Name: Chris Location: mentor, oh Join Date: Mar 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1986 kawasaki ninja 250 Posts: 1	86' engine swap Hey everyone, Im pretty new to the motorcycle world and im trying to figure some stuff out about the engine on my bike. I have a 1986 ninja 250 and im losing compression. im not exactly sure what to do. One option im leaning toward is an engine swap. the only issue is i havent seen another 86 for sale around here. now my big question is would any of the other years mount up on an 86? from what ive read the engines for most of the year excluding the newest gen are basically the same. but what about the frame? if someone could let me know if i can do this it would be greatly appreciated (i dont have the money to buy an engine that wont fit) Thanks Chris

March 2nd, 2012, 01:13 PM	#2
csmith12 The Corner Whisperer Name: Chris (aka Reactor) Location: Northern KY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much. MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13	Welcome Chris, good luck with the bike. __________________________________________________ Goal: Shake A Million Hands \| Look through the corners \| Track Day Prep \| Closest track? \| The Mid-Ohio School

March 13th, 2012, 07:06 PM	#3
ajmueller ninjette.org member Name: Adam Location: Medford, Oregon Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): EX250-E2 Posts: 12	It is possible but... ...it depends on your skill. The '87 "E2" is the only other model that matches the '86 "E1." http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/I_have_...s_different%3F This is an excerpt from that link: "You can swap any '88-07 (F series) engine into an '86-87 (E series) chassis by swapping the alternator cover and flywheel from the older engine to the newer engine. By swapping the alternator covers you swap out the wiring and ignition pickup coils. Once you remove the alternator cover on the 250, the flywheel is one bolt and a few special tools away. But, it does require (on a 1 to 10 scale) a 7+ skill/confidence level. So, if you don't have the kind of experience needed for this, the simplest way may be to take both engines (with alternator covers removed) to any decent automotive or motorcycle mechanic and ask them to swap flywheels. It should cost less than 1/2 hour labor for this work, depending." In what kind of shape is your '86? As you found with the engine, it's getting harder to find good parts for the '86 and '87. I'm looking for an unbent pair of forks for an '87 myself. A good set of plastics is even more difficult to find. You may be able to part your '86 out for enough to pick up a newer model in some areas. Best of luck!

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March 22nd, 2012, 03:52 AM	#4
fjyang ninjette.org member Name: Frank Location: Pasadena Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): 87 Ninja 250, 90 Ninja ZX750R, GPZ 900r, 02 Moto Guzzi LeMans, 95 Triumph Speed Triple Posts: 121	Don't forget to keep the cams and carbs from the 86 if you do swap the engine. The 86-87 has the bigger 32mm carb instead of 30mm 88 onward and the 86-87 cams has a more aggresive profile for top end power at the expense of mid-range. Dont forget to swap the clutch cover also as it has a sound dampen feature the later version don't have. The 86-87 are true sporting 250's but with each generation Kawasaki keep detune the engine for more beginner friendly mid-range as new riders don't spend time in 14k rpm heaven. If you can take out the engine and bring it to a mechanic to redo your rings, you might save some labor that way.

March 22nd, 2012, 07:34 PM	#7
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	huh, learn something new every day i guess

March 25th, 2012, 04:45 PM	#8
shiftdrift06 ninjette.org member Name: Z Location: Earth Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): None Posts: 92	Beautiful. I wish we have more aftermarket pregen parts.

March 26th, 2012, 12:24 AM	#11
fjyang ninjette.org member Name: Frank Location: Pasadena Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): 87 Ninja 250, 90 Ninja ZX750R, GPZ 900r, 02 Moto Guzzi LeMans, 95 Triumph Speed Triple Posts: 121	When Area P develop the full exhaust system for the pregen's, they thought its going to sell boat loads as it was one of longest production bikes for Kawasaki from 88-07, almost 20 years. When its release to the market it didn't sell anywhere near it should give the amount of bikes on the road. People scream for aftermarket parts and support and when its there, people don't put the money where it counts. My guess is that pregen bikes resale value have something to do with it, if your pregen is worth $1,500, you'll think twice spending 1/3 of your bike's worth on exhaust systems. When I picked up the exhaust for group sale last batch before Area P shelf the system, Kerry was pretty dissapointed by the response to the pregen systems in terms of units sold. All the 86-87 250 racers I posted above are heavily modified and custom one off's and not many if anyone is going to spend time developing parts for bikes out of production that old. The front end conversion on these racers probably cost more then the bike and resale value is not high on priority list for dedicated race bikes. I'm not saying pregen's are not great bikes, in fact ,they're better street bike then 86-87 will ever be for better power spread and you don't have to ring the neck past 12k to get power but 86-87 do have more peak power. What the 86-87 got also is lighter weight compared to all generation of 250's as kawasaki try to make the pregen's and newgen's size wise to a 600 then a 250 so when you see all 3 gens together the 86-87's are almost toy like in its proportions but at the same token its not pretending to be somthing its not.

March 26th, 2012, 08:30 AM	#13
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	yeah and when AreaP made the pregen system, they did a group buy. I had literally just spent 300 on my Two Brothers slip-ons 3 weeks before. I couldn't justify getting ANOTHER exhaust system. I'm still pretty sore about that with myself. Seriously if I hadn't gotten over eager and waited a couple weeks, I would have found something that was loads better for the same price. I think the GB price was like 325+shipping