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Old January 7th, 2022, 02:07 PM   #1
racered
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2008 250 build

Moving along with the 250, spent most of the week on the body work.
The carb kit arrived just now, so here is a pic of the contents, and a pic of the body work.
The carbs are coming off next and a test run is in the plan, maybe before dark.
It's ccold outside, rain tomorrow.
Thinking the #90 jet, aftermarket header, stock air box, 45*outside and falling, @770 altitude.
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Old January 7th, 2022, 04:18 PM   #2
racered
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needles

a lot different: IMG_0012.jpg

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Old January 7th, 2022, 09:50 PM   #3
racered
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I installed the #90 main jets, removed the stock #38 pilots ,installed the #40 pilots, installed the new needles with the e-clip @ 3rd position, no shim below the clip, but three above the clip.The instructions in the kit suggested the three shims above the e-clip.
Went for a test run, the bike pulled strong to rev limit with full throttle through 3rd and 4th gear.
At part throttle acceleration there was a sag/ stumble around 5000 rpm through third and fourth.
I made four pulls with consistent results. My test ride is short because the road I use is too short for 5th and 6th gear testing.
I think either the stock needles will go back in and or the 38 pilots will go back in with the new needles to lean out the midrange.
When I achieve a decent power curve I will find a longer testing stage.
I am pleased with the results from the smaller main jets.
I did check the #90 orifice size and a #66 drill passed easily, a #65 would not.
The 112 jets I removed were drill size #57 before I drilled them to#56, and would drown the spark @ full throttle before and worse after drilling.
I'm learning.
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Old January 8th, 2022, 02:00 AM   #4
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They gave you pre-gen needles, not new-gen. Here's comparison and explanation on why they are that way:



1. aftermarket pre-gen needle
2. stock pre-gen needle
3. stock new-gen needle
4. aftermarket new-gen needle

Note that stock pre-gen needle #2 gets thinner sooner than stock new-gen #3 as needle lifts in high-RPMs. This coincides with pre-gen's tuning for high-RPM power with more high-end flow than new-gen (which is tuned more for low-end torque). Here's comparison of pre-gen vs new-gen's powerbands. Notice pre-gen's high-end power bump. The sooner and thinner needle transition at tip is to match this higher flow (#2 compared to #3).



Issue with factory new-gen is it has super-rich high-end with slightly lean mid-range in stock trim.


Proper needle to improve this fuel-curve is #4. Note that in mid-range, it's actually thinner than factory new-gen #3 to add mid-range fuel. However at the tip, it's thicker than factory needle to remove fuel from factory's super-rich settings.

If you use that pre-gen needle on your new-gen, it's going to transition to even more fuel in high-end compared to factory's already super-rich mixtures. You'll find you'll get stumble in 8-10k RPM range and slow lazy revving after that due to super-rich mixtures.

For optimum tuning, you need to schedule dyno time to get AFR curves for various configurations. Or get wideband O2-sensor.
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Old January 8th, 2022, 06:13 AM   #5
racered
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Thank you for the information and the charts.
The question now is who will ship me the correct new gen needles.
Factory Pro did not ship them in the kit despite touting their product's greatness. I will contact them.
Meanwhile, I ask if Dynojet or someone else could ship some ? Are they available from Kawasaki?
Thinking that today the stock needles will go back in and another test run.
There is an O2 bung at the collector on the bike. I'm familiar with closed loop testing on automobiles, but I could try my equipment on the bike using a wide band sensor.
I would like to add that I have been watching the on board videos of J E, and yourself. Very very informative.
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Old January 8th, 2022, 09:10 AM   #6
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Typical tuning procedure goes in this order:

1. lock in your mains for WOT/high-end 1st
2. adjust mid-range with clip position
3. dial in idle & low-end with pilot & mixture screws

Trick is figuring out which way to adjust and where.

Old-fashion method is just doing runs out on road and recording elapsed-time for 0-60, 60-80, 80-100, 1/4-mile, etc.

Another method is audio-recording and using a desktop-dyno package to analyse. It times acceleration and can give you semi-accurate dyno-charts and ET time-slips.

if your wideband has datalogging, that would be best. Not safe trying to stare at AFR gauge while going down street WOT. Give you most accurate tuning-data. Aiming for 13.5:1 in high-end gives max-power. Little richer in mid-range gives smoother transistions.

I suspect that your 5k-rpm stumble might be lean, can adjust clip to raise needle to see if it improves. Otherwise go other way.

Appears MotionPro lost interest in Ninjette kits when new-gen came out. They never developed new-gen needles for stock bikes. Their kit appears to be geared towards big-bore bikes with cam upgrades. Does nothing for stock bike. Note that lots of people resort to jet-kits to compensate for dirty clogged carbs.

interesting dyno-charts and upgrade progress here. Tyga full exhaust gives about +1hp advantage over AreaP. http://www.racingorder.com/?s=dyno
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Old January 8th, 2022, 05:29 PM   #7
racered
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good news

I took your suggestion and raised the needles two shims and took it for a run.
I eased up the road in first second third and fourth, passing through the rpm range where there had been a stumble, then while in fourth I rolled into the throttle and it pulled cleanly to rev limit, then shifted to fifth. I coasted down and turned around at the curve and stopped in first gear. From a careful rollout I pinned it and made it up to sixth staying off the limiter before I lifted then slowed down and eased back home. Flawless.
What a great result! Many thanks to the advice shared
Looking forward to track time.

Last futzed with by racered; January 29th, 2022 at 11:01 AM.
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Old January 26th, 2022, 11:21 AM   #8
racered
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progress and then some

I am getting close to a finished bike but I do not have a lower fairing for engine oil containment. I have Attack race bodies side panels but have not found a source for the lower belly piece. Can anybody help me with where to buy one?
The body panels I have are painted, the tank is next for paint, I thought I had a lower panel lined up but it didn't pan out. The CMRA race season begins the end of February and rules require a lower panel for oil containment.
The bike I am building is an 08 250 and I think I have a pre- gen ignition box to install, part # 131800-5040 , also the wiring harness and connector for it. I hope I can wire it properly.IMG_0004.jpg

IMG_0003 (2).jpg
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Old January 29th, 2022, 10:58 AM   #9
racered
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progress and paint

still working on the bike
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Old January 29th, 2022, 11:16 AM   #10
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Awesome bodywork repair! Takes so much time and effort; totally worth it though!
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Old January 29th, 2022, 10:49 PM   #11
racered
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Thank you! yes my fingers are sore and the bike is looking good, sanding the tank today and tomorrow hope to spray.Lots of work to go.
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Old February 12th, 2022, 02:41 PM   #12
racered
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Had to splice a Hot Bodies lower belly pan with pieces of upper half of Hot Bodies fairing to make up to my Attack uppers. I could not find an Attack lower fairing. But it's coming along.

IMG_0005 - Copy.jpg

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Old February 16th, 2022, 08:11 PM   #13
racered
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Boom

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Old March 4th, 2022, 09:15 AM   #14
racered
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Had a good weekend @ MSRH

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Old March 4th, 2022, 10:10 AM   #15
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what fun!!!
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