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Old June 10th, 2020, 12:25 PM   #121
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put a scotts-lock on it. lol sure way to have problems.
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Old June 10th, 2020, 07:03 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Not sure what you're saying here. If coil was 12.80v, what happens to make it drop to 12.60v?

Issue was caused by modifications to harness. Without these mods, harness would still be 100% functional without shorts. So simplest and easiest fix is to restore harness back to 100% stock (or buy 100% brand-new stock harness from dealer). Find all areas that have been modified from stock configurations with cutting/crimping and repair with proper linesman splice/knot, soldering and heat-shrink wrap to restore back to original functionality. It's done this way in pro-motorsports, aerospace and military applications for performance, durability and reliability. It is not accidental that crimp-connections are forbidden for these applications. Imagine consequences of flying Raider over enemy territory and ignition-fuse blows and turns off your ignition!
Can confirm, I spent 4 years in the army working on Patriot Missile system, if we had to do harness repair while we waited for parts from Raytheon we'd do a splice exactly how is shown in the video. Patriot missile radars are super temperamental and break by looking at them wrong.
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Old June 11th, 2020, 06:34 AM   #123
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guys the fuse blew from me testing with the meter. had to. if this was the problem, the fuse would constantly be blowing. it never blew once till i started testing. i raced a bracket car for 5 seasons with butt splices/ no failures
klr full of butt splices no issues. i might look into a used harness.
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Old June 11th, 2020, 09:15 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by maverick9611 View Post
i had drop outs on voltage but not much. if coil was 12.80 volts it might drop to 12.60 volts. had small dropouts at ignitor location and key switch. while wiggling the 10amp ignition fuse blew. do i need to bite the bullet and get a $300 wire harness?or do i need to totally unwrap this harness and really check it closely?
where is the main frame ground for the harness?
Quote:
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guys the fuse blew from me testing with the meter. had to. if this was the problem, the fuse would constantly be blowing. it never blew once till i started testing. i raced a bracket car for 5 seasons with butt splices/ no failures
klr full of butt splices no issues. i might look into a used harness.
Just because you got lucky with 50 butt-crimps, doesn't mean the 51st one is working. Meters use high-impedance probe circuit, meaning they draw minimal current. Otherwise every single time meter is used, it would blow fuses. That's obviously not the case. Just because 50 kids survived drinking poison from bottles under sink, doesn't mean that stuff is safe. What about 51st one that died? Was he unlucky? None of them should've drank poison in 1st place, parents shouldn't have kept it under sink.

It was when you wiggled harness that fuse blew. You were measuring voltage at coils, somewhere completely far away from area of harness that was wiggled. That movement was more than harness has encountered before. So that short was just lowering voltage and hampering ignition at high-RPM which requires more coil-charging. With larger amount of wiggling, short finally connected to neighboring wires.

Best bet is to go back to that spot on harness that was wiggled, and go in either direction to remove and fix crimps closest to that spot on either side. And continue outwards form there.

Remember, it took you over year to take my suggestion to swap bone-stock carbs from green bike to red bike to troubleshoot mid-range stumbling. In that case, it was modding the carbs that caused issue. A 30-minute procedure would've saved a year of frustration. Same in this case. The sooner harness is restored back to 100% bone-stock, the sooner bike will run perfectly again. Simple.
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Old June 12th, 2020, 10:56 AM   #125
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im gonna a used harness off of ebay
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Old June 12th, 2020, 11:18 AM   #126
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Make sure you get money-back guarantee that it's 100% functional.
Should also test each circuit end-to-end to verify resistance and no shorts.
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Old July 2nd, 2020, 11:41 AM   #127
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danno, did you get wiring harness? i sent it last week.
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Old July 3rd, 2020, 09:28 AM   #128
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Yup got it. Looks like used eBay harness?
I'll test it then verify it on my race bike.
Get it back to you after weekend!
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Old July 3rd, 2020, 09:36 AM   #129
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good luck
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Old January 17th, 2021, 01:17 PM   #130
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danno had no problems with the ebay harness. he sent it back to me. finally got around to mounting it. bike fired but cylinder 2 is dead no heat on header.
coil wires left are black to green lug
right is red to green lug. is this right?
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Old January 17th, 2021, 02:55 PM   #131
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No, right should be green to green lug. I don't know if that would cause no spark though. I'd think it would just cause a reverse polarity spark. Not good, but a spark nonetheless.
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Old January 17th, 2021, 02:56 PM   #132
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what bout left?
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Old January 17th, 2021, 03:00 PM   #133
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i just tried it. cylinder 2 still dead
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Old January 17th, 2021, 03:04 PM   #134
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that doesn't seem right for right coil. the coil wire for green barely fit. red on top had lots of slack in wire
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Old January 17th, 2021, 03:06 PM   #135
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https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=136226
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Old January 17th, 2021, 03:12 PM   #136
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https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=186101
this thread says red on bottom of both coils. i have new gen pre gen is reversed
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Old January 17th, 2021, 03:16 PM   #137
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i tried it that way. still cold on cylinder 2
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Old January 17th, 2021, 03:19 PM   #138
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hmm, shouldn't matter with inductive coils either way. I've got red (power) plugged into green on both sides since that's only way wires reach on my bike. It's in pieces at moment. Should have back together later and I can test running it both ways.




TEST to verify functionality:

1. spark: pull plug wires and insert spare plug. Ground plug casing on valve-cover and crank engine. Do you get spark on both sides?

2. measure power at coil:
- slide connector on coils 1/2-way off
- key ON
- measure voltage at green-terminal on each coil. Voltage = ??
- measure voltage at black-terminal on each coil. Voltage = ??

3. measure coil ground. Measure resistance between coil mounting-bolt and chassis ground. Ohms = ???

Manual had error with coils going to wrong cylinder. I've fixed it here:
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Old January 17th, 2021, 03:22 PM   #139
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i will check tomorrow. i will let u know
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Old January 17th, 2021, 04:00 PM   #140
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Quote:
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hmm, shouldn't matter with inductive coils either way.
It makes a little difference. You can read about it with a web search for "spark coil reversed polarity".

The schematic in the manual shows the red wire going to the terminal on the side of the high voltage tower, for both L and R coils. That's the way mine is connected.

The trouble is that my coils have the green terminals away from the side with the HV tower and the photo you posted shows the green terminal on the HV tower side. I guess the only way to be sure they're connected properly is to use the pencil test. http://www.mossmotoring.com/coil-polarity/
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Old January 17th, 2021, 04:01 PM   #141
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what bout left?
You have that one correct so I didn't mention it.
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Old January 18th, 2021, 08:20 AM   #142
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i have verified spark/passed
left coil top green lug 11.82
bottom black lug 11.80
right coil top and bottom lug 11.83
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Old January 18th, 2021, 08:30 AM   #143
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i put red on green each coil. no effect cylinder still dead. gonna pull the plug. maybe it mega fouled out. i do have spare set of coils that i keep from green ninja. if plug shows no evidence of fouling i will replace coil on cylinder 2
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Old January 18th, 2021, 08:55 AM   #144
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new /used plug installed. no effect
gonna replace coil on cylinder 2
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Old January 18th, 2021, 09:07 AM   #145
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replacement coil install on cylinder 2 no effect/dead cylinder
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Old January 18th, 2021, 09:54 AM   #146
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b4 the harness swap. cylinder 1 was the problem cylinder. at least I proved that you can swap sides on it. ��
I did put thing stock exhaust back on with the El cheapo muffler the tyga was just way too loud.
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Old January 18th, 2021, 02:19 PM   #147
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i have verified spark/passed
left coil top green lug 11.82
bottom black lug 11.80
right coil top and bottom lug 11.83
tests checks out OK. Battery needs charging.

Don't start swapping parts without measuring first. Will introduce errors into system!

Well, it's been sitting for over 3-months. Did you drain float-bowls beforehand?
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Old January 18th, 2021, 02:26 PM   #148
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battery is brand new and fully charged. i drained float bowls over 6 months ago
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Old January 18th, 2021, 02:27 PM   #149
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i have new plugs coming too
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Old January 18th, 2021, 02:34 PM   #150
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i put battery on trickle charger
switched to float in 5 min.
fully charged
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Old January 19th, 2021, 12:17 AM   #151
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What is battery voltage measured directly at battery terminals?
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Old January 19th, 2021, 09:18 AM   #152
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i have new plugs coming too
You tested and got spark. New plugs won't yield any useful data. Might as well replace headlight and taillight bulbs while you're at it.

Better to switch existing plugs. Then you'll have more useful data depending upon whether cold cylinder moves with plug. At this point we can assume harness, igniter, coils, plug wires and plugs are fine if you saw spark on both when testing.

Only thing left is petrol. Try squirting some into airbox or down #2 to see if it fires.
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Old January 19th, 2021, 12:31 PM   #153
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when i get off from work. i will check batt voltage. it must be getting gas because plug was wet with fuel.
i still have my stick coils. maybe i should try swapping those in. im at the point, why not?
here is cyn#2 plug
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Old January 19th, 2021, 12:57 PM   #154
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What the heck made that plug so black? It looks like a 2-stroke that's running way too rich, and with a 16:1 oil ratio!
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Old January 19th, 2021, 01:28 PM   #155
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when i get off from work. i will check batt voltage. it must be getting gas because plug was wet with fuel.
i still have my stick coils. maybe i should try swapping those in. im at the point, why not?
here is cyn#2 plug
To use stick-coils, you need to test those as well by measuring voltage and sticking plugs into them and looking for spark. You've already done that test and spark is OK. Plus you will be introducing even more changes into system that can cause errors such as modifying harness to use stick-coils. We already spent tonnes of time troubleshooting your previous non-stock harness. Let's keep this one pristine and un-modified.

Try swapping plugs first, that way you don't have to collect way more additional data. If cold-cylinder moves to #1, you know plug's at fault. More concrete data than you have now.

Remember that measurements are 100% proof, takes precedence over anything else. That's how Greeks were able to prove a round Earth and Galileo a solar-system rotating around sun with collected data. Swapping perfectly-working parts with brand-new perfectly-working parts changes nothing and symptoms persist. It was measurements that found your faulty-harness last time after tonnes of time wasted swapping parts.


Looks like you've got fueling issue with #2 getting way, way too much petrol. Could be non-sealing float-valve increasing height. Drain both float-bowls into different containers and compare their volumes.

BTW - you're sure that carbs are fully OEM bone-stock? All factory jet sizes and needles? Both slide diaphragms good and they do same >pffft< and speed when manually raised and let go?
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Old January 19th, 2021, 01:37 PM   #156
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battery 13 volts
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Old January 19th, 2021, 03:23 PM   #157
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What the heck made that plug so black? It looks like a 2-stroke that's running way too rich, and with a 16:1 oil ratio!
i do not know
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Old January 19th, 2021, 04:32 PM   #158
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i do not know
Hope that's just excess petrol and not oil leaking in there...
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Old January 19th, 2021, 04:37 PM   #159
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MOTM - Feb '18
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
To use stick-coils, you need to test those as well by measuring voltage and sticking plugs into them and looking for spark. You've already done that test and spark is OK. Plus you will be introducing even more changes into system that can cause errors such as modifying harness to use stick-coils. We already spent tonnes of time troubleshooting your previous non-stock harness. Let's keep this one pristine and un-modified.

Try swapping plugs first, that way you don't have to collect way more additional data. If cold-cylinder moves to #1, you know plug's at fault. More concrete data than you have now.

Remember that measurements are 100% proof, takes precedence over anything else. That's how Greeks were able to prove a round Earth and Galileo a solar-system rotating around sun with collected data. Swapping perfectly-working parts with brand-new perfectly-working parts changes nothing and symptoms persist. It was measurements that found your faulty-harness last time after tonnes of time wasted swapping parts.


Looks like you've got fueling issue with #2 getting way, way too much petrol. Could be non-sealing float-valve increasing height. Drain both float-bowls into different containers and compare their volumes.

BTW - you're sure that carbs are fully OEM bone-stock? All factory jet sizes and needles? Both slide diaphragms good and they do same >pffft< and speed when manually raised and let go?
these carbs were sent twice to gordon. they are factory new. he has gone thru them twice over. i will not go into the carbs again!
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Old January 19th, 2021, 04:57 PM   #160
DannoXYZ
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick9611 View Post
these carbs were sent twice to gordon. they are factory new. he has gone thru them twice over. i will not go into the carbs again!
Yes, that was because you didn't want to measure electrical stuff. Which turned out to be issue.

Now electrical stuff is fixed and you don't want to measure carbs. It sat for quite a long time. Not that difficult to measure couple things to identify issue or confirm it's good. Unknown is difficult to deal with. Simple to put some rubber-hoses on float-bowl to drain.
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