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Old September 3rd, 2012, 07:32 PM   #1
dino74
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Installing Andreani Grp Cartridges

I've been looking to upgrade my fairly stock(stiffer springs) suspension. I was going to get the Racetech cartridge emulators but I came across Andreani drop in cartridges for a decent price from http://www.fastbikeindustries.com/ (FBI)



The installation is very similar to a fork seal replacement. You'll need all the same tools plus a hand held grinder. Also, the recommend oil is Ohlins Fork Oil 2.5W #01312, but general 5wt fork oil works as well.

Using http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=23200 as a guide, completely disassemble your forks.

The bottom of the inner fork tube has bushing inside of it. The inner diameter of the bushing is smaller than the outer diameter of the cartridge, so the bushing needs to come out.



As you can see, the bushing is held in place by a pressed lip. Use the grinder to remove the lip.



Take a smaller pipe and punch out the bushing from the other side.





The bushing looks like



Clean up the grounded off lip.

Screw off the cap and adjuster from the cartridge. The bottom part off the cartridge is bolted to the outer fork in the same manner as the damper rod.

Use something to hold the cartridge in the center of the outer fork opening.



Put on a new copper washer and torque to 20nm. DO NOT PUT ANY LOCTITE on the threads. It doesn't matter which side compress and rebound is on but its "standard" to put the rebound on the right side.



Install the seals, bushing, and washers as described in the fork seal DIY. Remember to keep the damping rod extended or else you'll have to fish it out of the forks. Tie a string or wire to the damper rod because you'll need to push it in and out to bleed the air out. Pour the oil into the forks.

If possible, use a funnel to pour the oil directly into the cartridge tube. This make bleeding the air much much easier.



I was told a useful tip by FBI on how to bleed the air out. Extend the forks and place your hand over the top and push down. This should create pressure in the forks. Then compress the fork all the way down. Put your hand over the fork top and pull. This will create a vacuum. Doing this a couple of times will get some oil into the cartridge, then just push and pull the damper rod to finish the bleeding. The airgap is 115mm measured with the forks and damper rod fully compressed. Springs are not in yet.

After the oil level is set, insert the springs, plastic preload adjuster and screw on the top cap.

Make sure the compression/rebound screw is all the way out. You don't want the needle bottom out as you are screwing on the cap.



The top cap should be turned in enough so the adjuster has three full turns from closed position to fully opened. The picture below has some preload, its easier to screw in the top cap with no preload.



Insert the top cap into the fork and insert retaining ring. Start with the compress and rebound at 1.75 turns out.

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Old September 3rd, 2012, 08:00 PM   #2
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/linked from main DIY sticky
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 10:14 PM   #3
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Okay, you've got my attention because I've wanted to improve the front suspension on my bike as well. I tried to follow your links and poke around both of those sites... I'm not seeing where you got your setup exactly and for how much... the fbi site I can't find them and the other site when I translate it, it doesn't change the currency.

Anyway, I'm curious how much this cost for one... and more importantly... how is the ride quality after the swap?
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 10:15 PM   #4
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Nice write up
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Old September 4th, 2012, 01:03 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cazper View Post
Okay, you've got my attention because I've wanted to improve the front suspension on my bike as well. I tried to follow your links and poke around both of those sites... I'm not seeing where you got your setup exactly and for how much... the fbi site I can't find them and the other site when I translate it, it doesn't change the currency.

Anyway, I'm curious how much this cost for one... and more importantly... how is the ride quality after the swap?
Yeah, there's not much on the Italian site.

I'm not sure what FBI charges for them, you'll have to call them. I think its like 7-8 hundred. I got very lucky with a one deal

How they handle? No idea I'm going to the track this weekend and I'll report more afterwards.

Are you looking to improve your suspension for street or track riding?
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Old September 4th, 2012, 07:40 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dino74 View Post
Are you looking to improve your suspension for street or track riding?
I have yet to go to the track, although it is definitely an interest of mine... so 95% street (I like to ride the canyons) and 5% track I suppose.
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Old September 4th, 2012, 09:43 AM   #7
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I have yet to go to the track, although it is definitely an interest of mine... so 95% street (I like to ride the canyons) and 5% track I suppose.
If you're looking at mostly street riding, put in springs for your weight, 20wt fork oil and maybe emulators.
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Old September 4th, 2012, 11:20 AM   #8
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@dino74, that was my original plan... was just curious if this mod was worth it or not... I'm assuming you are doing it for track riding? If so, why would it not be worth it for hard street riding?
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Old September 12th, 2012, 12:57 AM   #9
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How they handle? No idea I'm going to the track this weekend and I'll report more afterwards.
So how did the new forks do? Did you make a separate post that I missed ?
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Old September 15th, 2012, 03:14 PM   #10
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So how did the new forks do? Did you make a separate post that I missed ?
sorry, been busy this week at work.

I don't think I can give a good evaluation yet because I don't know if they are set properly. The suspension guy who is usually there, wasn't there. I fiddled with the setting a little bit but honestly I didn't know what I was doing. I'm currently reading and watching videos to become more knowledgeable.

But, I can say that the bike feels more planted when I'm cornering over bumps. Previously, it felt like the tires where going to bounce off the track. I still feel the bumps, but now they don't scare me.

Also, the bike is much more stable in hard braking. It get squirmy when I'd brake hard before the corner, but now it feels really stable.

I'll update this thread as time goes on.
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Old December 25th, 2012, 12:04 PM   #11
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Update?

Hey, VERY interested in an update!
What are your thoughts now???
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Old April 29th, 2013, 09:54 AM   #12
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Hey, VERY interested in an update!
What are your thoughts now???
Sorry for not responding. I didn't think I was qualified to give a judgement on them since I'm never felt like I was riding them to the limit. I don't want to be one of those "this is the most amazing ever" guys.

Anyway, I was having problems with my riding. It was either my style or the bike (5+ crashes). So this last Friday, the lap record holder (Fogle) at Chuckwalla took my bike out for a test ride.

Bads news: Problems isn't with the bike, it my riding style.

Good news: He said the bike's suspension was amazing. So much so, he said he is going to buy a set.

Alex:
Can you change:
"Put on a new copper washer, a little blue loctite, and torque to 20nm"
to
"Put on a new copper washer and torque to 20nm. DO NOT PUT ANY LOCTITE on the threads."

and
Add "but general 5wt fork oil works as well." to the end of
"Also, the recommend oil is Ohlins Fork Oil 2.5W #01312."
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Old May 2nd, 2013, 08:28 PM   #13
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Changes made.
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Old May 14th, 2013, 02:49 PM   #14
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I think I can add an update to comparison of riding different set up race Ninja 250s

Ive ridden Nemesis's Ninja 250 (which I believe does not have any mods to it other than springs)

I have my bike which has Racetech emulators and springs

and I have ridden dino74's bike

The difference is night and day between my bike and dino74's. I think part of it is our set ups are different. My bike's suspension tends to be a little on the stiffer side. dino74's feels a little more on the softer/plush side. Dean told me to take his bike out to see if there is something wrong with his bike or its him. Riding Dean's bike the suspension felt really good and handles bumps no problem. SOme of the bumps that I have issues with that causes my bike to either skip or run a tad wide...Dean's just absorbed them and kept in line.

I think if I had more time on Dean's bike I would have set a new PR for myself.

I can see myself ordering these in the near future once I pay off some debts. The emulators are nice improvement over stock, but I really miss the ease of adjustability for compression and rebound with the cartridge kit like my previous bike (Daytona 675).
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Old May 14th, 2013, 03:05 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Nemesis's Ninja 250 (which I believe does not have any mods to it other than springs)
i call bullshit
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Old May 14th, 2013, 04:28 PM   #16
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i call bullshit
With regards to just the forks...everyone knows Hong's bike is a cheater bike
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Old May 14th, 2013, 05:25 PM   #17
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Hong has emulators and springs and probably some mystery installation tips.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 09:40 AM   #18
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don't forget the adjustable fork caps. and slicks up front make a big difference.
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Old October 10th, 2013, 09:06 AM   #19
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Alex,

I did another set and need to add some new tips. Can you add these edits.

After "The bottom part off the cartridge is bolted to the outer fork in the same manner as the damper rod."

Use something to hold the cartridge in the center of the outer fork opening.


After "Pour the oil into the forks"

If possible, use a funnel to pour the oil directly into the cartridge tube. This make bleeding the air much much easier.


After "After the oil level is set, insert the springs, plastic preload adjuster and screw on the top cap."

Make sure the compression/rebound screw is all the way out. You don't want the needle bottom out as you are screwing on the cap.
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Old October 10th, 2013, 09:09 AM   #20
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Couldn't you just go back to the edit button of your original post to edit?
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Old October 10th, 2013, 09:13 AM   #21
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i like your custom centering tool
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Old October 10th, 2013, 09:19 AM   #22
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Couldn't you just go back to the edit button of your original post to edit?
There is a time limit for editing your own posts. After X many days, its gone and you can't edit.
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Old October 10th, 2013, 09:22 AM   #23
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Ahhhhhh. Did not know that.
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Old October 10th, 2013, 09:41 AM   #24
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i call bullshit
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooblekain View Post
With regards to just the forks...everyone knows Hong's bike is a cheater bike
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trailerboy531 View Post
Hong has emulators and springs and probably some mystery installation tips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex.s View Post
don't forget the adjustable fork caps. and slicks up front make a big difference.
Haha...

...all I have are the racetech springs and emulators. CYCLEMALL installled it for me and did something else to it that I'm not aware of. End result: No front chatter whatsoever.

This year, I went with thicker oil and I'm having a hard time adjusting to it. I loved how soft(er) my forks were, and now they're a bit too stiff for me. So I'm definitely struggling with corner entry. I may go back to the magic formula or find a work around.

Back on topic: Good stuff Dean! I better see a new paint job. Want me to design yo bike?
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Old October 13th, 2013, 11:18 PM   #25
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Okay, I think I've put in all the edits; lemme know if it still needs some work.
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Old March 21st, 2016, 11:24 AM   #26
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Okay, revivng old thread. Got a couple questions hoping you guys may be able to answer for me.

-I see that you didnt put the metal washer from the stock spring back in, the one between the spring and the cap adjuster. I did, wonder how much of a difference that makes.
-How did you tighten the nut at the bottom of the cap adjuster? Its a bit hard to get to as the spring is in the way.
-What was the measuement for the nut from the bottom, or does it matter?
-How do you open these back up? The stock cap, you pressed in and took the clip out, but it doesnt seem that these are able to be pressed in, in the same manner.
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Old March 21st, 2016, 01:19 PM   #27
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-I see that you didnt put the metal washer from the stock spring back in, the one between the spring and the cap adjuster. I did, wonder how much of a difference that makes.
Probably not much.

-How did you tighten the nut at the bottom of the cap adjuster? Its a bit hard to get to as the spring is in the way.
I use a 17MM 15-75 angle open end Facom wrench. Its thin and the two different angles make it easy.


-What was the measuement for the nut from the bottom, or does it matter?
The position is determined by the adjustment of the compression/rebound needles. You want each to have 3 full turns. If you have more than 3 then the cap needs to move down and vice versa. Make sure to back out the needles before you adjust the cap.

-How do you open these back up? The stock cap, you pressed in and took the clip out, but it doesnt seem that these are able to be pressed in, in the same manner.
I put the front stand in and push down slightly then take out the retaining ring.
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Old March 21st, 2016, 02:50 PM   #28
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Thanks for the quick reply!

I think im going to go out and grab that wrench, that looks pretty sweet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dino74 View Post

-What was the measuement for the nut from the bottom, or does it matter?
The position is determined by the adjustment of the compression/rebound needles. You want each to have 3 full turns. If you have more than 3 then the cap needs to move down and vice versa. Make sure to back out the needles before you adjust the cap.

[/COLOR]

Im still a bit confused by this (sorry first time doing full blown cartritges).

What exactly is the setting for the nut (Red arrow with black inside is pointing at) and how many rings of threads from the bottom. Three full turn from when the nut is all the way at the bottom?
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File Type: jpg carts.jpg (14.1 KB, 248 views)
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Old March 21st, 2016, 03:51 PM   #29
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What exactly is the setting for the nut (Red arrow with black inside is pointing at) and how many rings of threads from the bottom. Three full turn from when the nut is all the way at the bottom?

Just to make sure we are taking about the same parts. See attachment.
1. Rod
2. Nut
3. Cap
4. Compression/Rebound Needle Adjustment. The small hex is the needle adjustment.
The large nut on the cap is for preload adjustment.

Steps:
1. Easier to separate cap and rod first.
2. Screw the nut to the lowest position on the rod.
3. Screw the needle adjuster out as far as possible. It won't come out of the cap.
4. Screw the adjuster 3 turns in,
5. Put the cap on the rod. I suggest you do this without the spring first time.Be gentle as you screw down because the needle is going to bottom out on the value.
6. Screw the nut up against the cap. This is were the nut should be.
7. Left nut where it is and reassemble with spring.

When you are done, the adjustment needle should have roughly 3 turns from closed to fully opened.

Also, some of my pictures from above are missing. Picture hoster is gone. Before you tighten the bottom bolt that holds the cartridge to the lower fork, put something at the top so the rod is in the middle of the fork. I used a wine cork. If you don't, the cartridge can be slightly cocked in the lower fork.
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File Type: jpg cart.jpg (26.1 KB, 5 views)
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Old March 21st, 2016, 03:58 PM   #30
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Got it! Thanks so much for the help Dino, ill try that tonight. As of right now, everything is buttoned up already, so ill have to open up the top again. But doesnt seem too painful.
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Old April 3rd, 2016, 10:21 AM   #31
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Ok, gave it another try today and still a bit confused (sorry).

I left the forks on the bike, got the cap off.
I used a strap from the triple tree to the wheel, to compress the fork to expose the nut, etc.
Completely removed cap.
Pulled the rod out as much as possible.
Removed spring.
Backed out yhe needle all the way, then turned it I'm 3 full turns.
Now when I go to tighten it the cap just screws till it hits the nut. I tried to compress the rod down and then tighten but no difference.
Currently I am able to screw the cap down all the way, till it hits the buy again.
What am I doing wrong?
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Old April 3rd, 2016, 03:45 PM   #32
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Nvm I got it! Was going the wrong way on the adjustment needle!
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Old July 2nd, 2016, 02:27 PM   #33
daverdfw
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looks like these are going for $599 now. Seems like a good deal!
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Old July 3rd, 2016, 07:18 AM   #34
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FBI also has the similar Ohlins NIX 22 cartridge kit now. They're $699 including springs. No idea how the performance compares. They do mention being bolt-on, so they might be a tad easier to install too. https://www.ohlins.com/product/nix-22/ is the product page.

And there's also the Ricor Intiminators for <$200 to get shim-stack compression damping in an emulator-like package/install.
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Old July 3rd, 2016, 10:21 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by InvisiBill View Post
FBI also has the similar Ohlins NIX 22 cartridge kit now. They're $699 including springs. No idea how the performance compares. They do mention being bolt-on, so they might be a tad easier to install too. https://www.ohlins.com/product/nix-22/ is the product page.

And there's also the Ricor Intiminators for <$200 to get shim-stack compression damping in an emulator-like package/install.
I just did .90 RT springs and preload adjusters before this season. I think i might just go with the intiminator from Spears racing, that way the other investment isn't wasted. Then I gotta look at addressing my rear shock situation
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Old July 4th, 2016, 03:07 AM   #36
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A couple of race buddies got the Andreani cartridges, both one rider is 130lbs. the other was 250lbs.

They both requested for the kit to be adjusted for their respective weights. After measuring the springs, we learned that they used spacers to make the adjustment instead of changing the springs.
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Old July 4th, 2016, 07:58 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swann View Post
A couple of race buddies got the Andreani cartridges, both one rider is 130lbs. the other was 250lbs.

They both requested for the kit to be adjusted for their respective weights. After measuring the springs, we learned that they used spacers to make the adjustment instead of changing the springs.
Do you know if it was Andreani or the distributer that did the adjustment?
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Old July 4th, 2016, 06:00 PM   #38
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We're not sure, but the kits were purchased from OMNIA RACING (https://www.omniaracing.net).
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Old December 4th, 2018, 10:11 AM   #39
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Hi, I know it is an older post but I need help.

I am unable to get the inner bushing out of the fork. I have a 2010 ninja 250, I grinded the locking lips over the end of the bushing and try to get them out with the PVC pipe. But they won’t move?? Any suggestions?
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Old December 4th, 2018, 10:24 AM   #40
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Hi, I know it is an older post but I need help.

I am unable to get the inner bushing out of the fork. I have a 2010 ninja 250, I grinded the locking lips over the end of the bushing and try to get them out with the PVC pipe. But they won’t move?? Any suggestions?
Try using a wooden dowel on concrete. Post up pics of the ground down section
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