Strategies for Avoiding Panic Braking or Swerving

[Motofool]

"By the time you recognize the danger, you have two seconds or less until impact. A motorcyclist, no matter how skilled, is more likely to stay upright if he learns how to avoid instead of how to react to dangers on the road."

Find full article and some more about stopping and swerving here:

http://www.bikerenews.com/Stories_Ar...ing_Panic1.htm

http://www.sportrider.com/riding_tip..._hard_braking/

http://www.sportrider.com/riding_tip...riding_skills/

http://www.bikerenews.com/Skills_Cor...s20090304.html

http://www.bikerenews.com//Stories_A...ing%20Tips.pdf

[Jefft]

Herman, I wish I lived in Florida. That way I'd just follow you around until I knew what I was doing. Great links.

[AlanDog]

Some interesting points that might seem to contradict common sense:

Visibility is more important than stopping/swerving skills.

Stay with clump of cars instead of keeping away from them.

Be ready to split lanes when in traffic.

----

Surprised this article doesn't mention looking ahead as a way to avoid situations.

Was going to ask a bunch of questions about human reaction times and I found this link: http://www.visualexpert.com/Resources/reactiontime.html

[Falcor]

Originally Posted by AlanDog

...Stay with clump of cars instead of keeping away from them...

I'm not so sure that one is right under any circumstances....

[AlanDog]

Well, what he actually wrote was, "In busy urban traffic, stay in the mix with the cars. Not out ahead of them; not behind."

I can understand the reasoning: drivers can't see motorcyclists alone, thus you are somewhat protected from being cut off when you're in a group of cars.

[Falcor]

How can a car not see you when they are coming up from behind you? If they miss you that easily when you're by yourself then they shouldn't be on the road.

If anything being in a group of cars would conceal you, not make your more noticeable.

[MR2Aaron]

Originally Posted by Falcor

I'm not so sure that one is right under any circumstances....

It definitely is.

Think about it like this. There's a car getting ready to turn left from the opposing left turn lane as you approach an intersection. The driver does not see you, for whatever reason.

If you're alone, they may very well jump out in front of you, forcing you into an evasive maneuver.

If you have other cars close to you, however, it doesn't really matter so much that the left-turning driver didn't see you, because they probably did notice all those huge cars around you, and waited until after they (and incidentally, you) passed.

Now, where all the cars are in relation to you does matter. In my aforementioned situation, a car in the lane next to you is better than one in front of or behind you, as the opposing driver could conceivably try to quickly turn, or turn imediately after the car passes, potentially forcing you into evasive action with little warning.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Falcor

..........then they shouldn't be on the road.

That is correct !!! ................. but they are ..........

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Jefft

Herman, I wish I lived in Florida. That way I'd just follow you around until I knew what I was doing. Great links.

I wish I lived in California, Jeff.

Thanks

[Falcor]

Originally Posted by MR2Aaron

It definitely is.

Think about it like this. There's a car getting ready to turn left from the opposing left turn lane as you approach an intersection. The driver does not see you, for whatever reason.

If you're alone, they may very well jump out in front of you, forcing you into an evasive maneuver.

If you have other cars close to you, however, it doesn't really matter so much that the left-turning driver didn't see you, because they probably did notice all those huge cars around you, and waited until after they (and incidentally, you) passed.

Now, where all the cars are in relation to you does matter. In my aforementioned situation, a car in the lane next to you is better than one in front of or behind you, as the opposing driver could conceivably try to quickly turn, or turn imediately after the car passes, potentially forcing you into evasive action with little warning.

This is one of those very specific situation things. Even then there are ways to counter somebody from oncoming traffic blindly turning in front of you at a intersection.

Covering controls, don't blow through the intersection, check their position in the turn lane to see if it looks like they intend to pull out, pay attention to their speed coming into the turn lane (if they are coming in hot they are probably going to turn).

If you or others think having a car next to you is going to help you then so be it, but personally I think there are better ways to avoid scenarios where it is supposedly beneficial .

[CycleCam303]

Originally Posted by Motofool

I wish I lived in California, Jeff.

Thanks

Haha. You have no idea how true that statement is hernan.

[Motofool]

[EternalNewb]

Good call to bump this thread, given riding season is starting back up.

[Toly]

I think, but have no evidence to prove it, that staying with a pack of cars might be beneficial in areas where deer and other wildlife are abound. They would probably wait for the pack of cars to pass before crossing. But if they do jump, you are probably worse off, having to deal with flesh and metal all around you.

[ally99]

This quote stood out to me: The point: No matter how good you think you are, don't count on overcoming the Pucker Factor when you're caught by surprise and think you're about to meet your Maker.

Edit: @alex.s would like #8 in the first article.

[ally99]

I'm not having luck opening the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th link, @Motofool. They may be duds since you originally posted.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by ally99

I'm not having luck opening the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th link, @Motofool. They may be duds since you originally posted.

Yes, it seems that they have re-arranged the website.
Please, try these:

Riding Skill Series: Braking Potential

Riding Skills Series: Proper Downshifting

Over-confidence and Riding at the Limit

Riding Skills

[supersport]

I'm giving myself space from all 2ton cars for some time to react and not get squash.

[Kscreations08]

This one has been bugging me since I started riding. #11 in the first link is about loud exhaust. Don't care about that. The line that eats away at me:

By the time you're close enough for a car driver to hear you, he's already in your path. In fact, you run the risk that the driver will be so alarmed he'll stop dead in your path.

Why the hell does every cager slam on the brakes when they cut you off!!! Every effing time! If you steal my right of way, and put your 2 tons of metal in front of me, get the **** out of the way! There's still a chance to save your dumbass! I swear! Hit the vertical pedal on the right and move that fat ass!

Seriously though, anyone else notice this?
A car turns left in front of you, sees you at the last second, and panic stops. DEAD IN FRONT OF THE BIKE!
A different car pulls out of a right turn onto your street, sees you so close in the rearview, and ****ing brakes! WHY?!?!?!

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Kscreations08

.......... Seriously though, anyone else notice this?
A car turns left in front of you, sees you at the last second, and panic stops. DEAD IN FRONT OF THE BIKE!
A different car pulls out of a right turn onto your street, sees you so close in the rearview, and ****ing brakes! WHY?!?!?!

I believe that such is a driver's SR.
Almost everybody that has learned to drive with a friend or relative has those words associated to danger: Stop, stop, stoooooooooooooop !!!
Hence, brake pedal is the only lifesaver that they know.
Many drivers don't even swerve to save a bad situation.

Another thing is that practically all those drivers slam on brakes and keep pressing down as hard as they can when they panic, making the front tires skid over the pavement for several seconds, not realizing that skidding braking is much less effective than rolling braking.

http://www.rapid-racer.com/driving.p...ght%20Transfer

http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/weight_transfer.html

The same principle of weight transfer applies to a car.
Those front tires cannot do max braking until they are fully loaded with transferred weight.


Weight transfer during the pitch (deceleration)

[Worldtraveller]

Great links. I would recommend all riders (new and experienced) read through the series of riding tips on sportrider and cycle world (and all the other MC sites!).

A good one about riding on wet roads.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Worldtraveller

Great links. I would recommend all riders (new and experienced) read through the series of riding tips on sportrider and cycle world (and all the other MC sites!).

A good one about riding on wet roads.

[cbinker]

Looking further down the road is a good start. Looking at wheels is another good place.

[Rifleman]

Originally Posted by cbinker

Looking further down the road is a good start. Looking at wheels is another good place.

BINGO!!!

I taught my kids this even when in a car... LOOK VERY FAR AHEAD, almost as far as you can... know what's comming 15 or 20 seconds from now... you don't have to stare up there, you can come back to 5 cars ahead... but 50% of your time should be looking WAYYYYY ahead...

I could tell where my kids were looking when they were accelerating toward a red light... the moment they backed off the gas... was the distance ahead they were looking... always farther...

where the sky meets the road... if your not looking there, you will be surprised sooner or later...

look through the windows of the car in front of you, see what they are seeing... get out from behind semi's and windowless panel vans...

if you see a problem, you can slow, change lanes, keep an eye on it as it approaches, but if you don't see it until it's 100 feet in front of you... you are toast.

[AlanDog]

I've had soooo many close calls in the last couple of months. I have a bright neon green jacket (http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/a...textile-jacket) but from drivers response you'd think I was invisible.

It is just jaw-dropping un-believable.

In all of these situations I was either going at or below the speed limit (really!)

The last one almost deserves it's own thread but I will summarize: on a 90 degree right turn an approaching full size pickup truck clips the apex on *my* side of the road. He just crossed over the line and headed straight for me. How I was able to swerve and avoid him was like a miracle (I mean, like, does god exist? sort of miracle), when we passed he was taking up the entire lane and I was on the shoulder--he didn't slow down or swerve. The driver did this because the turn was in the middle of farm fields where you can see across the field... but he didn't see me, I assume because he was on autopilot.

Bright neon jacket. Honestly, seems worthless. I think you need neon orange.

I need holograph technology that makes me look like a monster pickup.

But the thread-relevant part of the post is this: I am alive because I was looking ahead. I had no clue what that pickup was about to do, but I had my eye on it. If I was focused only on the road in front of me, I'm certain I'd be dead.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by AlanDog

The last one almost deserves it's own thread but I will summarize: on a 90 degree right turn an approaching full size pickup truck clips the apex on *my* side of the road. He just crossed over the line and headed straight for me. How I was able to swerve and avoid him was like a miracle (I mean, like, does god exist? sort of miracle), when we passed he was taking up the entire lane and I was on the shoulder--he didn't slow down or swerve. The driver did this because the turn was in the middle of farm fields where you can see across the field... but he didn't see me, I assume because he was on autopilot.

Bright neon jacket. Honestly, seems worthless. I think you need neon orange.

I'm so glad you made it ok. That's one scary ass situation in which to find yourself. You ever looked at killboy's photos? http://www.killboy.com/ He shoots pictures of traffic on the Tail of the Dragon, and it's unbelievably common for people to take up both lanes in twisties. Folks have no idea how to drive roads like that, especially if they're not familiar with mountains.
Neon green, neon orange, none of it matters. We are still invisible.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by AlanDog

I've had soooo many close calls in the last couple of months...........
But the thread-relevant part of the post is this: I am alive because I was looking ahead. I had no clue what that pickup was about to do, but I had my eye on it. If I was focused only on the road in front of me, I'm certain I'd be dead.

Better weather means more drivers and riders out there, ...... showing all their skills or lack of.

Great save, Alan !!!

[Worldtraveller]

Originally Posted by AlanDog

The last one almost deserves it's own thread but I will summarize: on a 90 degree right turn an approaching full size pickup truck clips the apex on *my* side of the road. He just crossed over the line and headed straight for me. How I was able to swerve and avoid him was like a miracle (I mean, like, does god exist? sort of miracle), when we passed he was taking up the entire lane and I was on the shoulder--he didn't slow down or swerve. The driver did this because the turn was in the middle of farm fields where you can see across the field... but he didn't see me, I assume because he was on autopilot.

Bright neon jacket. Honestly, seems worthless. I think you need neon orange.

I need holograph technology that makes me look like a monster pickup.

But the thread-relevant part of the post is this: I am alive because I was looking ahead. I had no clue what that pickup was about to do, but I had my eye on it. If I was focused only on the road in front of me, I'm certain I'd be dead.

Originally Posted by ally99

I'm so glad you made it ok. That's one scary ass situation in which to find yourself. You ever looked at killboy's photos? http://www.killboy.com/ He shoots pictures of traffic on the Tail of the Dragon, and it's unbelievably common for people to take up both lanes in twisties. Folks have no idea how to drive roads like that, especially if they're not familiar with mountains.
Neon green, neon orange, none of it matters. We are still invisible.

Alandog, the exact same thing happened to me a couple of years ago. Only..it didn't end so well for me.

I was stopped with my foot down, preparing to make a right turn out of my neighborhood. Looked left, clear. Looked right, truck in the opposite lane, no biggie. Looked back left, still clear. Turned right just as I was about to pick my foot up and release the brake, that truck hit me....

This douche in an F-350 took the corner like he was Mario Andretti in a World GP race. If I was a car, he would have hit me head on based on his position. As it was, his front tire shear off the left side of my bike, and his driver's side mirror hit me in the head. And I was riding this (and wearing this gear):


He said he 'didn't see me', as usual.

That wasn't the worst of it. He later lied to the police and said I hit him. And since he was apparently a fire fighter or something like that, they took his story, and completely ignored mine.

I eventually won in court, and they ruled it 100% his fault, but other than his insurance company paying the rest of my bills, he never got cited or anything.

I miss that bike...it was completely totaled.

[capt_bugaloo]

Quite a story Worldtraveller - I wish I could say I am shocked, but I am not. There are too many crap drivers out there, just not paying attention.

[M42]

Christ, Lane. I'm glad you weren't left holding the bill. This is why I always have my gopro on me - too many brain dead idiots mess up and try to pin it on the motorcyclist.

[N-m]

Stay with clump of cars instead of keeping away from them.

After my trip I am convinced this is wrong. Several times I avoided huge amounts of debris and rubber that would have taken out my bike. I had time to spot, develop a plan and simply shoot the gaps without so much as a rise in blood pressure. In the air altitude is life. On the road a gap does the same thing for me.

In the context of sticking close throug intersections I will never trust drivers to see me in a 4 wheeler, much less on a bike. There are numerous reasons to change lanes, swerve, etc.

[Worldtraveller]

Originally Posted by N-m

After my trip I am convinced this is wrong. Several times I avoided huge amounts of debris and rubber that would have taken out my bike. I had time to spot, develop a plan and simply shoot the gaps without so much as a rise in blood pressure. In the air altitude is life. On the road a gap does the same thing for me.

In the context of sticking close throug intersections I will never trust drivers to see me in a 4 wheeler, much less on a bike. There are numerous reasons to change lanes, swerve, etc.

Yeah, I have to agree with this. There are times it is good to use traffic as cover, but mostly, it's best to be away from it.

If I'm doing a lot of city driving, I like to use cars as moving shields going through intersections, to reduce the chances of left hooks and similar incidents. On longer highways, or roads with lots of good visibility, I like to stay between pockets of traffic. Yes, that does mean occasionally slowing down to not catch up with that cluster of traffic ahead of you.

[Motofool]