So yea I F** up and seised tappet nut to ad. screw

[plincoman]

Hello All,

This is my first post. I currently own a $500 basket case '05 EX250. So far iv done a few repairs and have decided to do a valve adj. and botched it royally...

I am now at the point of setting it ablaze and watch my money burn like usual; and by that i mean throwing more money, sweat, tears, and foul language at it until its done.

So in the infinite wisdom residing within this community (and yes iv searched and searched many broken links... I even called K.O.A. ) Can someone help me find an actual valve adj. tool for the ex250?

[DannoXYZ]

What went wrong with this usual technique? Too much torque on locknut?



Try this tool: https://www.murphskits.com/product_i...products_id=38



Or this one: https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Is_the...this_easier%3F
Or Pit Posse: http://pitposse.com/podetaadset.html

[adouglas]

You don't need a specialized tool, as Danno illustrated with that first photo.

You DO need decent and correct tools to avoid this kind of thing in the first place. If you don't have proper tools, take this as a valuable learning experience and buy some.

Step 1: Cool down and work the problem. If you're ready to set the thing on fire you're pissed off and that never, ever ends well.

The tried-and-true methods for dealing with a stuck nut apply. Patience, gentleness and some heat ought to do the trick. The heat will cause the nut to expand and that should be enough to allow it to break free. Be really careful with the heat... after all, you've got oil all over the place and you don't want to start a fire. Not sure how I'd approach this one, but that's the principle. Maybe a soldering iron held to the nut for a good long time? Don't really know and don't have direct experience.

Worst case if coaxing doesn't work: You'll have to remove the rocker arm, which means taking the cams out, etc. Basically, disassemble the top end enough to get that rocker arm away from the engine, because you're going to be generating some nasty metal shavings when you cut the mangled stuff to get it apart.

Then you can just cut the adjuster bolt off however you like, make darned sure you've cleaned up all the shavings, and replace it and the nut. You're going to need a new nut anyway.

The parts themselves should be cheap.

[Z1R rider]

Originally Posted by JacRyann

What went wrong with this usual technique? Too much torque on locknut?

I'm curious, how do you get that wrench on the exhaust rocker? I use a socket.

[jkv45]

Here's some more info on valve adjustment -

https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do..._the_valves%3F

https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Hints_...lve_Adjustment

It's not bad, even without the tool. Go slow and take your time. It will sometimes take a couple shots to get the clearances right after snugging the locknut.

What did you do that botched it so bad?

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by Z1R rider

I'm curious, how do you get that wrench on the exhaust rocker? I use a socket.

End is angled downwards. Or you can take a straight wrench and heat up with oxy-acetylene torche and bend it to optimum angle yourself.


http://www.2040-parts.com/_content/i...235314/001.jpg

[DannoXYZ]

One issue I think that trips people up is knowing which way to turn adjuster & locknut. "Lefty-loosey, righty-tightey" doesn't always work because looking down or up at a fastener changes rotation direction. Think of truing spoked wheels with spoke-nipples at the bottom of rotation, versus up at top.

Technique I prefer is "right-hand rule". Wrap fingers of your right-hand around the axis of fastener and aim thumb in direction you want to move that fastener. Sometimes you want to move it up, sometimes you want to move it down. With your thumb aimed in correct direction, your fingers will point in direction you want to turn fastener.

Another thing to be aware of is that when you tighten locknut, this pulls centre adjuster up slightly and increases clearance. So to get desired clearance spot-on, tighten adjuster slightly more, maybe 1/16th rotation more, then tighten locknut. Re-check clearance and you'll see it increased slightly.

[plincoman]

Thanks everyone for the replys! Ill try to clarify a few things.

Its actully been a month or so since i over torqued the tappet nut. And as far as tools go iv got a good grand+ invested would be way more if i had gone "big name brand", actually at this point i need a proper upright toolbox so i can get rid of my 4 small/ schmedium boxes.

And yea when the temper rises i know all too well to just put the tool down and come back to it later, learned that lesson when the thermostat housing bolt and stud snapped off in my gmc c1500. man that was a 3mo nightmare had a special guide (had access to a mechanistic @ previous job so it was free) made to drill out the bolt... good times.

Um as far as how i messed up, this forum and the faq are my main sources of knowledge as i have still yet to purchase a physical service manual and the addendum for the '05 year. i do have a mechanic buddy but well lets just say hes a bit of a shade tree mechanic... I digress im not 100% sure on how or why but i had my torque wrench set to the recommended 12 ft/lbs from the faq... and well the wrench never clicked on the last valve but by the time i realized it was too late. The damage was done and i was half way there.

One thing i did notice/ question after i freaked out; Are the cams supposed to be in contact with the rocker arms while actually torquing or should they be up and away from the contact area. I ask this because after i made sure clearance was within spec on intake and exhaust valves i began to torque the RH side simply because that was the side i was on after checking everything. But what did stand out to me was that the intake came was in contact with rocker witched torqued just fine and the exhaust valve cam was not in contact with the rocker... I'm thinking this is where i messed up, but as this is the first time I'v ever tried to do a valve job IDk

As far as taking apart the top-end to remove the cams to remove the rocker arm im not messing with all that especially since i don't have a physical service manual. But i may put the torch to a wrench comboed with my 100+watt solder iron although clearance is minimal so well have to experiment with that one. Irealy dont want to purchase a welder just yet (only to make a tool at this point) because i know ill spend as much on it compared to what it could cost to just get a bike that runs well and looks good. (though on the other hand iv always wanted a "nice" welder)

Ehhh kinda feel like im rambeling a bit at this point TLDR: Im 26 working on my first ever bike with out any training. And somehow over torqued a tappet nut with a click type torque wrench....oh fml

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by plincoman

(SNIP)
Ehhh kinda feel like im rambeling a bit at this point TLDR: Im 26 working on my first ever bike with out any training. And somehow over torqued a tappet nut with a click type torque wrench....oh fml

I don't recall the exact torque value, but there's not much indication of reaching the set torque when you are at the low end of the scale - it's easy to miss. Plenty of people have broken smaller bolts when torquing with a torque wrench because they missed the "click".

A 1/4" drive torque wrench is best when you are in the 20 ft. lb. range and below, but most of the time i just go for "snug" and skip the torque wrench completely. When you remove the nut/bolt make a note of which tool you used and the amount of force required. A 1/4" drive ratchet helps as it doesn't give you the leverage that a 3/8" drive does.

I torque important things with exact values like head bolts and such, but go by feel on things like drain plugs, rocker nuts, and small (M5, M6) bolts.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by plincoman

Hello All,

This is my first post. I currently own a $500 basket case '05 EX250. So far iv done a few repairs and have decided to do a valve adj. and botched it royally...

I am now at the point of setting it ablaze and watch my money burn like usual; and by that i mean throwing more money, sweat, tears, and foul language at it until its done.

So in the infinite wisdom residing within this community (and yes iv searched and searched many broken links... I even called K.O.A. ) Can someone help me find an actual valve adj. tool for the ex250?

Here's what I ordered back in March - http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/...1-1220/b848732

It's $49.72. I'm not sure the thickness gauges (feeler blades) are necessary at $62.06. I bought the feeler gauges and wound up just using a .004" and .005" feeler blades. If you have a developed "feel" for the drag of a feeler blade being pulled through the set opening you'll be OK. If not you can rely on the "go-no go" method and use gauges .003/.005 and .004/.006 respectively. Get as long a feeler gauge as you can. I rigged-up a leish kind of thing with a good strong nylon twine. I tied it to the gauge blade and used a slip not around my wrist. I dropped the O.E.M gauges down the cam chain tower and it was by the grace of God I was able to retrieve them. DON'T make that mistake. I also suggest that if your going to remove that coolant hose that runs into the back of the cylinder head to gain space that you drain the coolant from you system. I didn't and got antifreeze in my oil sump. Not fun and at $10.50/quart and subsequnt oil changes to remove all the coolant from the oil it's a pain and is expensive (oh, throw in a new oil filter too).

You say you have a damaged the adjusting nut and screw. Be sure you haven't just backed the adjusting screw out so far the it reached it's limit of travel (ran out of threads). Ask me how I know. If you think you have overtightened the adjusting nut be sure to inspect the two little "ears" on the rocker to make sure you didn't break one of the "ears" off that straddle the valve stem. If you did and don't catch it the piece of broken rocker or maybe the rocker arm itself will work it's way down the can chain tower, wedge between the cam chain and drive sprocket, make your cam jump time and crash your valves into the piston crown. In which case you'll have to shoot yourself in the head. You can remove a rocker without pulling the cams entirely out of the head but it's a pain in the ass. I wound-up making a tool out of a pair of needle nose pliers, super gluing thin pieces of wood to the inside of the plier jaws to grip the rocker arm, lifting up the cam ( not removing it) and slipping the rocker back in place.

I've done valve adjustments on everything from an Alfa Romeo Spyder Veloce to a Suzuki GS750 and this thing is the most abominable bitch I've ever done a valve adjustment on. I hope I die before I have to do it again. For me, I wouldn't go near that Ninja cylinder head/rocker arms without the factory tool.

Go slow, be cool.

Cheers,

Bill

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by jkv45

I don't recall the exact torque value, but there's not much indication of reaching the set torque when you are at the low end of the scale - it's easy to miss. Plenty of people have broken smaller bolts when torquing with a torque wrench because they missed the "click".

A 1/4" drive torque wrench is best when you are in the 20 ft. lb. range and below, but most of the time i just go for "snug" and skip the torque wrench completely. When you remove the nut/bolt make a note of which tool you used and the amount of force required. A 1/4" drive ratchet helps as it doesn't give you the leverage that a 3/8" drive does.

I torque important things with exact values like head bolts and such, but go by feel on things like drain plugs, rocker nuts, and small (M5, M6) bolts.

Yeah, definitely use a torque-wrench where your target is not at the low-end of scale. A 1/4"-drive wrench is a must on something this small. If torque is really critical on small fasteners, such as carbon-fibre handlebar clamps on MTB, I prefer to use a beam-style or dial-type torque-meter wrench.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by jkv45

I don't recall the exact torque value, but there's not much indication of reaching the set torque when you are at the low end of the scale - it's easy to miss. Plenty of people have broken smaller bolts when torquing with a torque wrench because they missed the "click".

Just FYI, but with this style of torque wrench, at low torques the wrench doesn't actually "click." It yields but doesn't make any noise. If you're waiting for a click you're screwed. If you realize that it's yielding and hitting the stop, you're good.

The "click" is a misnomer anyway. What's happening at higher settings is the same, it's just that it yields suddenly and the "click" you hear is the ratchet head hitting the stop hard enough to make noise.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Just FYI, but with this style of torque wrench, at low torques the wrench doesn't actually "click." It yields but doesn't make any noise. If you're waiting for a click you're screwed. If you realize that it's yielding and hitting the stop, you're good.

The "click" is a misnomer anyway. What's happening at higher settings is the same, it's that it yields suddenly and the "click" you hear is the ratchet hitting the stop hard enough to make noise.

Good point.

Yes, it's more of a feeling than a sound on the lower end of scale.