250R NA Build - Ultimate

[wayanlam]

subscribes~ waiting to see this baby in action, he he

[tubarney]

Originally Posted by mgentz

I have a degree wheel and indicators, but I would need to pull the motor all apart to check this.

I have this feeling that they are going to be very similar anyway. Something to measure next time you do the valve clearances maybe.

Here's my new hole. It has been heli-coiled. Cost $80. The bolt was die grinded in half, then it was picked out.

As you know I am keen on diy, but I recommend if this happens to take it to a professional, for what you pay, it isn't worth the trouble especially if you stuff your cases.

I have replaced the other bolt for the bracket with new ones just in case.

Just an fyi, regular old degreaser in a can is a lot better than brake cleaner for cleaning, and cheaper. It squirts out instead of sprays, there's no need for compressed air because of how powerful the stream is.

[Racer x]

Next time you need to repair a threads. Or add threads to something. This is the way to go.

http://www.timesert.com/

The inserts are iron. You can drill them out if you need to. Also the inside and outside are normal thread. Unlike helicoil. So you can drill the next size up and then put one inside another.
They also have a small shoulder. So they can't back out. And they don't back out because they lock in mechanicly and use thread lock. I have used then for over twenty years.

[tubarney]

Originally Posted by Racer x

Next time you need to repair a threads. Or add threads to something. This is the way to go.

http://www.timesert.com/

The inserts are iron. You can drill them out if you need to. Also the inside and outside are normal thread. Unlike helicoil. So you can drill the next size up and then put one inside another.
They also have a small shoulder. So they can't back out. And they don't back out because they lock in mechanicly and use thread lock. I have used then for over twenty years.

Thanks for the tip. Knock on wood there isn't a next time.

How much are they after you buy a kit, because from what I read they aren't cheap? The kits are as much as I spent on the labour, unless your getting them cheaper somewhere.

I'm interested to know how much extra they would have charged me for one. Will have to find out.

The heli-coil was free and they are stronger than the original thread so I'm happy to use them and save a bit of cash.

[Racer x]

They are not cheap. But when faced with a broken engine case in a Porsche. The studs used to pull out of the case. People buy me the kit and I fix the car.

Mercedes uses them to replace ALL the head bolt threads in V8 s
The is 17 each side. Used to take all day.

Price is for a drill tap driver and a couple inserts. Yes it's expensive but you have to look at what you are fixing. Your heli coils is perfect. BTW

[bruce71198]

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

Do you have the spark plugs out?

The headgasket won't catch the piston regardless since the piston edges do not protrude past the bore.

If he was using stock pistons from Kawasaki this is something I would take for granted. After market parts should always be checked for fit. A piece of clay on top of the piston will tell you what the squish is at TDC. It was noted by the OP that the condition was noticed after the head was bolted on.

[mgentz]

alright so here is where I am at.

I flushed the motor one last time with SAE 30 oil.
Finished safety wiring.
Put on all of the body panels.

From there, I cranked the motor over (no fuel) and listened intently. I heard no strange sounds. With this, I assume that the oil pump has been primed (I cranked it for 3 sec each times for 4 times).

I have been over this again and again and I can think of no reason for the tight spot. Funny thing is that based on Bruce's recommendation I turned the motor count-clockwise and it had even more spots.....However, so did Bruce's running motor. With all this research I think that I can rightfully assume that something in the motor (leverage, gears, friction, whatever) is causing the tight spots but they are not a cause of concern.

As for the piston heights, I did check these before I bolted on the head and they came out almost identical..... Therefore, what #1 experiences, #2 should.....

[mgentz]

where I am today:

[mgentz]

I still need to wash it, but that will have to be after its break in ride.

If it continues to rain, I'm going to break this thing in on the dyno.

I'm most excited to know that no one will ever know what is "under the hood" but me. It should be a blast to ride.

[Racer x]

Congrats . Do some video on the dyno

[mgentz]

Do you need to jump the kickstand wires in order to get the bike to start with a jettingpro or brtis?

[mgentz]

@tubarney how is your build coming along?

[Racer x]

Originally Posted by mgentz

Do you need to jump the kickstand wires in order to get the bike to start with a jettingpro or brtis?

I think so. I don't have a key anymore. But I think I remember that.

[mgentz]

Lol. Any way you could check?

[Racer x]

Post 12
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...ht=Brt+install

[mgentz]

I jumped the wires but she still won't start. I even put the stock cdi back in and it still won't start.

I pulled the plugs and I have spark. ..and the plugs are wet when I pull them but it may be oil from the cylinder installation.

Currently upset about this but I want to fix it.

Thoughts?

[choneofakind]

Might sound like some dumb suggestions considering your work on this bike so far, but a double check is always a good idea:

I know you bored it. What size pilot jets are you running? Sure they're enough? Is the choke working right? Might be too lean to start with what's in the carbs now. The bike likes to start right as you cross the threshold from normal to rich with the choke. Maybe the choke isn't enough because the pilots are small? idk.

Are the carb bowls full? Suck on the vacuum nipple for a bit with a spare piece of hose and make sure the bowls are full.



You've already checked compression and spark, so those bases are good. Just my input.

[Racer x]

The kick stand switch blocks the starter. If the engine cranks but no start there is a problem. Lets hit basics. Spray eather in the carbs. If it won't fire then do a compression test. Anything below 125 psi won't start

[mgentz]

Comp is about 150 each side right now. She wants to kick over but just can't. Even on the starter she has gotten to 3000 rpms....I don't think that is just starter.

[mgentz]

She won't start with starting fluid

[Racer x]

So the engine spins when you push the starter button? You have compression(150 psi)

Take a plug wire off. Put a screw driver in the end of the wire. See if you can get the spark to jump 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch.

How old is the gasoline?

pull the exhaust and see if flames come out when you try to start it. Then double check the cam timing.

[mgentz]

I pulled the plugs and got spark to show when they were grounded to the frame....How does one do a shooting spark test?

I bought the gasoline yesterday.

white smoke is coming from the exhaust now....I still feel like there is too much oil in there but have no logical method of removing it.

[Racer x]

Put a screw driver in place of the plug. Hold it to ground and crank the engine. As it starts to spark. Move the screwdriver away and stretch the spark.

Put the plugs in with the gap at .019

[Somchai]

Originally Posted by mgentz

I pulled the plugs and got spark to show when they were grounded to the frame....How does one do a shooting spark test?

I bought the gasoline yesterday.

white smoke is coming from the exhaust now....I still feel like there is too much oil in there but have no logical method of removing it.

I think there's nothing you must worry about since your engine is rebuild now everything is dry and it's not running in yet so the residence is high.
When you see white smoke from the exhaust that means the engine is trying to start but can't because of -> see above.
Like Eric said ether is a good idea to use and in cases like this it's always helpful to take a second battery because the engine now is draining many power.
After it's started keep it running for maybe one minute and then turn it off to look for leaks. If everything is ok start it again and warm it up with low rpms.
Good luck.

[tubarney]

Have you got the problem sorted yet?

[red26]

Subscribed! Best thread so far..

I have a few question though,
-what countershaft sprocket are you running? I love the holes on it but neve found one for the ninja.
- i dont have the LV exhaust, but i will be putting bazzaz on mine.will the LV airbox mod benefit me? This is going to be on my race bike and some weekend canyon ride.

[cuong-nutz]

Did you Set the fuel on prime? All hoses connected property? No vacuum leak?

[mgentz]

ok.
So I re-checked the valve clearances....middle of spec to loose.
Re-checked the valve timing....spot on.
Compression....good.
Fuel set to prime.
all hoses and electrical connected.

do we have a tip over switch or something? This is going to something stupid.

[mgentz]

Originally Posted by red26

Subscribed! Best thread so far..

I have a few question though,
-what countershaft sprocket are you running? I love the holes on it but neve found one for the ninja.
- i dont have the LV exhaust, but i will be putting bazzaz on mine.will the LV airbox mod benefit me? This is going to be on my race bike and some weekend canyon ride.

It's either a renthal or a vortex.
As for the airbox, if you're only putting on the exhaust I would leave the airbox as it is for street riding.

[Racer x]

Originally Posted by mgentz

ok.
So I re-checked the valve clearances....middle of spec to loose.
Re-checked the valve timing....spot on.
Compression....good.
Fuel set to prime.
all hoses and electrical connected.

do we have a tip over switch or something? This is going to something stupid.

No tip ove switch.
So it still will not start? It has to be timing. if compression is over 150 and the fuel is new. Did you spray anything down the carbs? Are the plugs wet?

Looks like you need a timing light to check.

[tubarney]

Originally Posted by mgentz

ok.
So I re-checked the valve clearances....middle of spec to loose.
Re-checked the valve timing....spot on.
Compression....good.
Fuel set to prime.
all hoses and electrical connected.

do we have a tip over switch or something? This is going to something stupid.

Best thing to get the stupid stuff out of the way first before you start thinking its something more serious.

Here's some ideas.

The wires that come out of the alternator cover. One connector is black the other grey. Any chance you have them switch over.

What about the sensor that goes into the cases thats located just above the front sprocket.

Have you tried starting it with the throttle wide open.

Here's a question.

Is fuel getting into the bottom of the carbs?

[tubarney]

Racer x might be able to answer this one. Is there any chance that running a pilot jet or main jet that is either too big or too small could cause it not to start?

[mgentz]

Plugs are wet.

Nuetral light is on.

Exhaust starts to get hot.

I'm going to clean the carbs and reseal all of the boots. From there I will test electrical.

[Racer x]

Not really. It should be doing something. Backfire sputter. If you spray starting fluid in the carb. You bypass the whole carb.

[tubarney]

Originally Posted by mgentz

Plugs are wet.

Nuetral light is on.

Exhaust starts to get hot.

I'm going to clean the carbs and reseal all of the boots. From there I will test electrical.

It could be the plugs. Did you wash it before you tried to start it?

edit... forgot you tested for spark. I'll keep thinking.

[ManOfGod]

Subscribing. This is very interesting.

[gt_turbo]

So you have spark and fuel. Only thing you are missing is timing. Pull the valve cover and triple check the timing. Even one tooth off could prevent starting.

[bruce71198]

Plugs are wet ? with oil or gas. or coolant ?
What are the odds that you were just over zelous with oil during assembly and oil fouled the plugs on initial start ?
I haven't studied the ignition system on these yet, but could it be timed 360 degrees out and firing on the exhaust stroke? I imagine ,in this day and age, it probably has a waste spark system and fires on compression and exhaust strokes.
If you have spark then theres no electrical problems and nothing electrical for the fuel system.

[mgentz]

it fires on both strokes.

oil could be fouling the plugs. However, to curb this I keep pulling them and cleaning them. No coolant.

I will check the timing....again. But I know that I am the requisite 34 links (counting 1-36 as shown in the service manual) and that the 2IT mark is ligned up and that the cam sprocket marks are flush with the head. This time I will pull the plug and use a dial indicator to be even more sure.

[mgentz]

If I feel like pulling the head....do I need a new gasket? I was debating.