Questionable legality for a purchase?

guy3004 · August 3rd, 2011, 12:19 PM

Hello all,

I'm trying to buy a 2009 Ninja (wwooooohoooo) and the seller is suggesting that when it comes to the title and the sale he can put down a lower sale price to avoid high taxes for me on the sale itself. Obviously I know this is illegal but, in your oppinions, obviously no personal experiences, is this a common practice? is he trying to screw me over? Would I be the one to get in trouble or would he?

Thanks for your input, cant wait to be a part of this community!!

almost40 · August 3rd, 2011, 12:20 PM

What state are you in?

guy3004 · August 3rd, 2011, 12:27 PM

Missouri

YORCHI · August 3rd, 2011, 12:29 PM

Have him put it down as free, then have him mail you the title first before you pay him, then when you get the title register it ASAP and then go pick up the bike without paying him...when he calls the cops tell them that he gave it to you for free and you have the signed title to prove it. Then drive away in your new free bike

azimmer11 · August 3rd, 2011, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YORCHI

Have him put it down as free, then have him mail you the title first before you pay him, then when you get the title register it ASAP and then go pick up the bike without paying him...when he calls the cops tell them that he gave it to you for free and you have the signed title to prove it. Then drive away in your new free bike

+1. that will actually work

Azhyen · August 3rd, 2011, 12:36 PM

I've known people to do this. They do this so that way you the buyer doesn't pay a higher tax on the bike when you register the title under your name. Some will even "gift" the item so the buyer gets the minimum amount of taxes applied to them.

alex.s · August 3rd, 2011, 12:36 PM

i donno about stealing his bike... sounds like he's doing you a favor. technically speaking he was the one who wrote down what price he sold it as, so if anyone would get in trouble i would think it would be him. plus if the tax man comes to complain you can say you tipped him the extra money for being such a kind person and helping you understand so many things about motorcycling or something like that.

someone did it for me in the past and i really appreciated the lower taxes... i also haven't been visited by my local tax fraud investigator *fingers crossed*

CmichRider · August 3rd, 2011, 12:48 PM

When I bought my bike, the guy left the price and date blank, that way I paid what I wanted on taxes and didn't have to rush to the SOS to title the bike. It's pretty common practice I'd say.

azimmer11 · August 3rd, 2011, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CmichRider

When I bought my bike, the guy left the price and date blank, that way I paid what I wanted on taxes and didn't have to rush to the SOS to title the bike. It's pretty common practice I'd say.

+1. both bikes i have bought the owner left the price blank. up to you to decide. you can either fill it in as the real buying price, say $3000 and pay $180 in taxes (mi tax 6%) or fill it in for....say $1000 and pay $60 =] up to you?

Bosgarage57 · August 3rd, 2011, 01:09 PM

How much is he going to put on it?

I usually put a lower price, this last time I got the ninja she said it was too low (wasnt actually, but becuase it was an 06 and she didnt realize its just a small bike anyways) she made me fax a form to the PO stating that the selling price was what was listed. You might need to see if your state has that form as well. Its called "Affidavit of non-dealer transfer of motor vehicle & boats." I found it on the TDOT (TN dept of Trans) maybe you can find it on your states site. Might as well have him sign it just in case.

In TN, taxes are almost 10%. So if I put down $3000, thats $300 im payin in taxes.

Nemesis · August 3rd, 2011, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YORCHI

Have him put it down as free, then have him mail you the title first before you pay him, then when you get the title register it ASAP and then go pick up the bike without paying him...when he calls the cops tell them that he gave it to you for free and you have the signed title to prove it. Then drive away in your new free bike

That's whack, yo!

No way I'd do that as the seller! So you can have legal rights to the bike? Hellz no!

To answer the OP's initial question: Yes...I hear it's a common practice.

CC Cowboy · August 3rd, 2011, 01:24 PM

The government needs our money (taxes) to waste in whatever way they see fit. Please pay the full amount so the government can continue the waste without being accountable.

YORCHI · August 3rd, 2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex.s

i donno about stealing his bike... sounds like he's doing you a favor. technically speaking he was the one who wrote down what price he sold it as, so if anyone would get in trouble i would think it would be him. plus if the tax man comes to complain you can say you tipped him the extra money for being such a kind person and helping you understand so many things about motorcycling or something like that.

someone did it for me in the past and i really appreciated the lower taxes... i also haven't been visited by my local tax fraud investigator *fingers crossed*

you can't steal something you're getting for free...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

That's whack, yo!

No way I'd do that as the seller! So you can have legal rights to the bike? Hellz no!

To answer the OP's initial question: Yes...I hear it's a common practice.

wack? yo? lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

The government needs our money (taxes) to waste in whatever way they see fit. Please pay the full amount so the government can continue the waste without being accountable.

+1

our taxes pay my salary so please pay as much as you can, we appreciate it

kyle98927 · August 3rd, 2011, 05:59 PM

I appreciate all the input guys, makes sense, he also assured me it was a very common practice. I believe he just wants to make it 150$ on the title and say that was extra for a trade since things traded aren't taxable. Works for me!

Bosgarage57 · August 3rd, 2011, 06:26 PM

For a buck fiddy on an 09, you might raise some questions. Good luck and let us know how it goes!

burningscooter · August 3rd, 2011, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guy3004

Hello all,

I'm trying to buy a 2009 Ninja (wwooooohoooo) and the seller is suggesting that when it comes to the title and the sale he can put down a lower sale price to avoid high taxes for me on the sale itself. Obviously I know this is illegal but, in your oppinions, obviously no personal experiences, is this a common practice? is he trying to screw me over? Would I be the one to get in trouble or would he?

Thanks for your input, cant wait to be a part of this community!!

This is quite common practice in all facets of vehicle sales when it comes to private sellers. If you do pursue this, just make sure that you get a notarized bill of sale. As a matter of fact, make sure you get a notarized bill of sale regardless. If not, the DMV will hit you for the highest value in their book of Bike/auto values (wherever they get it from).

bluepoof · August 3rd, 2011, 07:24 PM

I do this every time I buy or sell a motorcycle. As long as you make it within the realm of possibility, you won't have a problem (in my experience).

kyle98927 · August 4th, 2011, 02:02 PM

Thanks for all the info. This may not be the right place to ask and if it is I'm sorry but is 2350 for an 09 with over 6000miles on it a bit too much?

mrlmd · August 4th, 2011, 02:07 PM

The DMV doesn't know anything about the condition of the bike so you can declare anything you think is reasonable, that you can get away with. This goes on all the time.

KawiKid860 · August 4th, 2011, 02:23 PM

This is what we did on my bike, we paid $2400 and the seller put $1500 on the bill of sale for us. However a friend bought a bike (Yamaha Stratoliner) not sure what he paid but the DMV said it was too low and charged taxes on book prices which was way higher than what he actually paid, so I wouldn't lie too much on it.

bdavison · August 4th, 2011, 02:27 PM

Well, here in Georgia they have ad valorum taxes on vehicles....so this wont work. Your gonna pay based on the value of the vehicle.

CThunder-blue · August 4th, 2011, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyle98927

I appreciate all the input guys, makes sense, he also assured me it was a very common practice. I believe he just wants to make it 150$ on the title and say that was extra for a trade since things traded aren't taxable. Works for me!

Yeah, you might not get away with it for $150. Add a 0 to it and it should be fine. You can explain it as the bike was damaged and you talked him down. They don't care to inspect the bike at the DMV.

outcast · August 4th, 2011, 02:44 PM

My dad used to do this all the time in texas, but recently they changed the law charge taxes off of either KBB or price you paid which ever is higher. He never got in trouble or had anyone ask any questions about the "price" he paid. Hope this helps

August 3rd, 2011, 12:19 PM	#1
guy3004 ninjette.org newbie Name: kyle Location: midwest Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): none yet Posts: 2	Questionable legality for a purchase? Hello all, I'm trying to buy a 2009 Ninja (wwooooohoooo) and the seller is suggesting that when it comes to the title and the sale he can put down a lower sale price to avoid high taxes for me on the sale itself. Obviously I know this is illegal but, in your oppinions, obviously no personal experiences, is this a common practice? is he trying to screw me over? Would I be the one to get in trouble or would he? Thanks for your input, cant wait to be a part of this community!!

August 3rd, 2011, 12:20 PM	#2
almost40 ninjette.org Monkey Spank Name: Kevin Location: Illinois Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 250R Track-Bike Woodcraft clip-ons and rearsets FZ-6 track bike Posts: A lot.	What state are you in? __________________________________________________ Black 250R Full Area P QC Dyno Jet Kit 100 main 41T Rear Sprocket

August 3rd, 2011, 12:29 PM	#4
YORCHI n00b Name: Jorge Location: Perris, CA Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): Blue 2010 Ninja 250 Posts: 581	Have him put it down as free, then have him mail you the title first before you pay him, then when you get the title register it ASAP and then go pick up the bike without paying him...when he calls the cops tell them that he gave it to you for free and you have the signed title to prove it. Then drive away in your new free bike __________________________________________________ Facebook YouTube #KCCO

August 3rd, 2011, 12:36 PM	#6
Azhyen ninjette.org Pirate Name: Seph Location: San Diego Join Date: Nov 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r Posts: 301	I've known people to do this. They do this so that way you the buyer doesn't pay a higher tax on the bike when you register the title under your name. Some will even "gift" the item so the buyer gets the minimum amount of taxes applied to them. __________________________________________________ "She said I can't get a bike, so I dumped her."

August 3rd, 2011, 12:36 PM	#7
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	i donno about stealing his bike... sounds like he's doing you a favor. technically speaking he was the one who wrote down what price he sold it as, so if anyone would get in trouble i would think it would be him. plus if the tax man comes to complain you can say you tipped him the extra money for being such a kind person and helping you understand so many things about motorcycling or something like that. someone did it for me in the past and i really appreciated the lower taxes... i also haven't been visited by my local tax fraud investigator fingers crossed __________________________________________________

August 3rd, 2011, 12:27 PM	#3
guy3004 ninjette.org newbie Name: kyle Location: midwest Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): none yet Posts: 2	Missouri

August 3rd, 2011, 12:48 PM	#8
CmichRider ninjette.org member Name: Jacob Location: Michigan Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2000 Ninja 250 Posts: 227	When I bought my bike, the guy left the price and date blank, that way I paid what I wanted on taxes and didn't have to rush to the SOS to title the bike. It's pretty common practice I'd say.

August 3rd, 2011, 01:09 PM	#10
Bosgarage57 ninjette.org sage Name: Luke Location: Sevierville, TN Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 06 Buell Uly, 05 VStar 1100 Posts: 577	How much is he going to put on it? I usually put a lower price, this last time I got the ninja she said it was too low (wasnt actually, but becuase it was an 06 and she didnt realize its just a small bike anyways) she made me fax a form to the PO stating that the selling price was what was listed. You might need to see if your state has that form as well. Its called "Affidavit of non-dealer transfer of motor vehicle & boats." I found it on the TDOT (TN dept of Trans) maybe you can find it on your states site. Might as well have him sign it just in case. In TN, taxes are almost 10%. So if I put down $3000, thats $300 im payin in taxes.

August 3rd, 2011, 01:24 PM	#12
CC Cowboy ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Whodat Location: Ware Is.,MA Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): I pass the wind! Posts: A lot. MOTM - Mar '13, Jun '14	The government needs our money (taxes) to waste in whatever way they see fit. Please pay the full amount so the government can continue the waste without being accountable. __________________________________________________ If everything seems under control; you're just not going fast enough!

August 3rd, 2011, 05:59 PM	#14
kyle98927 Newwwb Name: Kyle Location: midwest Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): none yet Posts: 10	I appreciate all the input guys, makes sense, he also assured me it was a very common practice. I believe he just wants to make it 150$ on the title and say that was extra for a trade since things traded aren't taxable. Works for me!

August 3rd, 2011, 06:26 PM	#15
Bosgarage57 ninjette.org sage Name: Luke Location: Sevierville, TN Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 06 Buell Uly, 05 VStar 1100 Posts: 577	For a buck fiddy on an 09, you might raise some questions. Good luck and let us know how it goes!

August 3rd, 2011, 07:24 PM	#17
bluepoof ninjette.org sage Name: Carolyn Location: San Carlos, CA Join Date: Nov 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250, 2002 Yamaha XT225 Posts: 597	I do this every time I buy or sell a motorcycle. As long as you make it within the realm of possibility, you won't have a problem (in my experience). __________________________________________________ www.bluepoof.com

August 4th, 2011, 02:02 PM	#18
kyle98927 Newwwb Name: Kyle Location: midwest Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): none yet Posts: 10	Thanks for all the info. This may not be the right place to ask and if it is I'm sorry but is 2350 for an 09 with over 6000miles on it a bit too much?

August 4th, 2011, 02:07 PM	#19
mrlmd ninjette.org sage Name: Marc Location: Crawfordville, Florida Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Suzuki S50, 2006 Kawasaki Ninja EX250F, 1990 Honda PC800, 2000 Yamaha TW200 Posts: 848	The DMV doesn't know anything about the condition of the bike so you can declare anything you think is reasonable, that you can get away with. This goes on all the time.

August 4th, 2011, 02:23 PM	#20
KawiKid860 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Murphey Location: Eastern Washington Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2002 Honda 919, 2004 Ninja 500R NAKED Posts: A lot.	This is what we did on my bike, we paid $2400 and the seller put $1500 on the bill of sale for us. However a friend bought a bike (Yamaha Stratoliner) not sure what he paid but the DMV said it was too low and charged taxes on book prices which was way higher than what he actually paid, so I wouldn't lie too much on it.

August 4th, 2011, 02:27 PM	#21
bdavison Wartown, USA Name: Bryan Location: Warner Robins, GA Join Date: Nov 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R SE, 2007 Ninja 650R, and assorted other bikes Posts: A lot.	Well, here in Georgia they have ad valorum taxes on vehicles....so this wont work. Your gonna pay based on the value of the vehicle.

August 4th, 2011, 02:44 PM	#23
outcast ninjette.org newbie Name: Charlie Location: Azle Tx Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r Posts: 8	My dad used to do this all the time in texas, but recently they changed the law charge taxes off of either KBB or price you paid which ever is higher. He never got in trouble or had anyone ask any questions about the "price" he paid. Hope this helps

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Fender eliminators and legality...	Maelstrom	2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk	4	October 1st, 2012 08:56 PM
[superbikeplanet.com] - Abraham Questionable for Silverstone	Ninjette Newsbot	Motorcycling News	0	June 13th, 2012 08:40 AM
[usridernews.com] - Poker Run Legality may clear up in Palmetto State	Ninjette Newsbot	Motorcycling News	0	May 18th, 2009 05:40 PM
[kropotkin thinks...] - Pedrosa: Out For Jerez, Questionable For Qatar	Ninjette Newsbot	Motorcycling News	0	March 5th, 2009 10:30 AM
[cyclenews.com] - Tedesco Questionable For Red Bud	Ninjette Newsbot	Motorcycling News	0	June 30th, 2008 11:15 AM