January 7th, 2012, 08:51 AM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Frank
Location: Pasadena
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EX500 Ignition Advancer works on 88-07 250's?
Hi Guys,
Posting this questions to more season mechanics on 250's or tinker who fettle around engine mods. Besides jet kit, exhaust, pod filters the next easy thing to get some power is ignition advancer but none is available and the closest found is ex500 advancer for 86-90 and was wondering if anyone tried fitting a advancer on their 250? or know if the EX500 would work? |
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January 7th, 2012, 12:51 PM | #2 | |
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I'm not sure. Factory Pro makes some statement about the ignition advancer for the ex500 having the same woodruff key (whatever that is?) as the ninja 250, but that they don't make an ignition advancer for the 250...
Quote:
The other option is look into the 88-07 CDI. Kawasaki might have changed the ignition timing between generations. I know many new-geners use a rewired pregen CDI for the preferable advancement. |
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January 7th, 2012, 04:54 PM | #3 | |
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Name: Colin
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Quote:
By the way, a woodruff key is made to fit in a crescent shaped keyway on a shaft. This way you don't need a setscrew to keep the key in place, as there's no axial movement allowed (where there would be with a normal slotted keyway) It's the tiny little half moon shaped piece.
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March 31st, 2012, 07:22 AM | #4 |
Freedom for Germany
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I did it...
Hello Frank,
I'd order the kit and got it fitted to my 250 EFI. My setup is: - Leovince full system - Leovince FAST - Factorypro ignition advancer With the above changes it is like day and night. After installing the FAST it had more power already but now after advancing the ignition it's really unbelievable fantastic. That's exactly what the Ninjette needs. Good rides, Somchai |
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June 10th, 2012, 10:01 AM | #5 |
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Name: Bill
Location: DFW
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Anybody tried this ignition advancer on the 08-11 EX250 ???
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June 10th, 2012, 08:08 PM | #6 |
Freedom for Germany
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Bill, please read post #4, my ninjette is a 2011.
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June 10th, 2012, 08:36 PM | #7 |
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Old & Slow but still having fun at 57 - Living the Dream ! CMRA #28 - Chaos Racing - Mini Endurance / #74 BBE |
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April 18th, 2013, 11:19 PM | #8 |
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Name: red
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Hi somchai, do you put it by yourself? Do you mind sharing on how the installation goes?
My advancer just came in today and i plan to install it tomorrow |
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April 18th, 2013, 11:37 PM | #9 |
Nerd
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I too would like to know!
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April 19th, 2013, 02:42 AM | #10 | |
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Quote:
But at least if you have the puller it's quite easy, just take care about the oil. This in my opinion is one of the best mod. |
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April 19th, 2013, 04:37 AM | #11 |
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At this point I think we need to start an ignition map database.
I have found all sort of plus and minus things with timing. To much to comment accurately. The first gen is 42 deg. This is good for all the 250 ninjas. As the second gen is 35 deg it benefits from seven deg of timing advance. But more is not always better. Once you go to pistons carbs exhaust. You open up an opertunity to do better. I found from using the BRT that timing can really do a lot good and bad. The question is what forum do we put the database in? @Alex can one thread be in three forums? Like 86-07, 08-12, and the 300?
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April 19th, 2013, 07:20 AM | #12 |
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Not really; a thread can only be in one place at a time. But - if you created 3 separate threads, then I could merge them, and leave pointers in the 2 other places that would take you to the one remaining thread.
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April 19th, 2013, 06:29 PM | #13 |
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Yeah racer X, i forgot to mention that i run an FI model. Hence BRT system is not available for us. Correct me if i'm wrong, but the other option is flashing ecu which i think would be catastrophic if not made right.
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April 23rd, 2013, 03:50 AM | #14 |
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Sorry that is my fault. I am carb centric. Being able to adjust the fuel mixture and ignition is basic to modifing other things. Some one must be able to make an adjustable Ecu (just for racing of course).
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Top speed 123.369mph. Ohio mile Worlds fastest 250 ninja |
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April 23rd, 2013, 08:42 AM | #15 |
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Name: red
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yeah, i'm also loving carb as i literally raised by them!
i have entered the dark side (FI) without a clue and slowly starts to digest it. the only thing i can't digest is the cost of richen up the mixture i have ordered a Bazzaz for it and we'll see how much it improves. it is currently running on a crap exhaust (26.59Bhp), waiting for a fullsystem from 2Bros. |
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April 23rd, 2013, 09:26 AM | #16 |
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X is there any power to be gained with more timing on the pregens?
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April 23rd, 2013, 10:57 AM | #17 |
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Interested as well since I have control over my ignition. They're already at 42 degrees
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April 23rd, 2013, 11:25 AM | #18 |
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42 is sorta the max. But if you raise compression you will want less.
That was my point about starting a data base. I have 12.5 to 1 now and run 38 ~40 in different RPM ranges. There is a lot of potential in timing changes. But it is a fine tune thing. Like making the power band smoother.
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Top speed 123.369mph. Ohio mile Worlds fastest 250 ninja |
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April 23rd, 2013, 01:37 PM | #19 |
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Is there any benefit to retarding the timing besides detonation?
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April 23rd, 2013, 02:33 PM | #20 |
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I don't know for sure. Maybe if someone was going for max efficiency instead of max power.
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Top speed 123.369mph. Ohio mile Worlds fastest 250 ninja |
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April 24th, 2013, 12:25 AM | #21 |
Freedom for Germany
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Let me try to explain.
The trick is to ignite the gas mixture already so far ahead of the TDC that "its burning well" at TDC and already has built up the best (not the maximum!) pressure to speed up the piston. If ignited too early, then the already rapidly increasing of gas pressure hindered pushing the piston still towards the cylinder head, the engine knocks! (ringing in contrast arises from spontaneous combustion!) The mixture takes about 1 ... 2 ms until it burns so to achieve the optimum pressure (it is not completely burned yet!). So you have to ignite 1ms before TDC! Idling at 900 rpm corresponding to 360 degrees / 66ms = 5.5 degrees at 1ms, at 7200 rpm corresponding to 360 degrees / 8ms = 45 degrees at 1 ms. This states the known information about how to ignite! In practice, then at idle we ignite at approx 0 degrees or even later with losing power there in favor of other benefits. Also, the ignition advance mostly in favor of some other parameters is limited to such as 40 degrees. The advantage of retarded ignition is Emission caused and that's the main reason for doing it now. At least there are many factors to look for like speed of flame, compression, compression chamber, type of piston and many more. Previous models of Kawasaki had advanced ignition at 45 degrees (i.e. ZX400 – 12.5 degrees at 1.200 rpm and 45 degrees at 6.000 rpm). Translation on the picture: zu früh = to advanced richtig = correct zu spät = retarded |
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April 24th, 2013, 02:36 AM | #22 |
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Name: red
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Thank you somchai, a great explaination indeed!
Can you please advise on the installation. I have install it myself but need to make sure i put it correctly (advance). - which way is the flywheel spins? clockwise or counter clock wise? - so i put the key further to the way it spins, is it correct? |
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April 24th, 2013, 03:07 AM | #23 | |
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Quote:
your very welcome. Look here, this is the way to go |
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February 28th, 2016, 03:43 AM | #24 |
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Name: Chris
Location: Bristol, UK
Join Date: Feb 2016 Motorcycle(s): ZZR250, VFR800 Posts: 491
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So the 500 ignition advance is achieved by an offset woodruff key locating the genny ! That's a very simple thing, you can make one by hand. The key only ensures correct location of the genny rotor, it does not secure the rotor, the mend bolt does that. I can make one if I need more or less & I have a rotor puller already
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