November 1st, 2010, 03:46 PM | #1 |
Mr. 988
Name: Jeff
Location: Sandy, Utah
Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): One Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
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600RR's as first motorcycles. Yea right..
Let me preface what I am going to say with this: I consider myself an intermediate rider. I have around 4000 miles of experience spread over 4+ years in every type of weather including snow. Most of those 4000 miles have been commuting and canyon riding with a little of the old super slab thrown in. It doesn't seem like much but if you break it down using my commute distance, that is about +-750 days in the saddle in city traffic. I have crashed once.
Last weekend I road a 600 super sport for the first time and came to the conclusion that a new rider would surely get in over his or her head on such a bike. It would only be a matter of time. I'm sure you could ride one around town and show up at a bike night without much of a problem if you were very careful. However, I am sure, a beginner riding one of these will get bit one day. There is a ton of temptation to do bad things on a 600RR. Smoothly twisting the throttle in 2nd gear at a relaxed 40mph resulted in 85mph in a matter of seconds with a really strong pull . Fun, yes. In a beginners hands I think it would be overwhelming . It would be so easy to override your skills on a bike like this. I could only imagine what a 1000RR would be like. I know I'm preaching to the choir here but I am so glad I started on a 250 and resisted the temptation to get a stronger motorcycle even after a few years in the saddle.
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"I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life, the way I want to" - Jimi Hendrix Cancer |
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November 1st, 2010, 04:56 PM | #2 |
Newb..... on a steeek! :D
Name: Mike
Location: Windermere, FL
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2012 Harley Davidson XL883L Sportster Superlow Posts: A lot.
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+1000 I like going this particular site to see what people, not magazine editors, have to say about different bikes. I can't tell you how many reviews there are on bikes like the older 600's and katana's and such that label them as beginner bikes. Some of these "squids" even have the nerve to say "oh I'm not a speed freak or anything, but I grew tired of this bike in a few months of riding. I think I'm ready to move on to a bigger bike. If you're looking for a great starter bike to learn to ride this (katana, 2000-2002 ZX6R, etc) is a good ride." When ever I read rider reviews like those I just shake my head and wonder what this country has let itself become. I truly wish we had some sort of tiered license system to force riders into small bikes. That way maybe alot of the peer pressure will vanish because everyone will have no choice but start on a 250 or 500. I've only been riding since about May of 2009, and I've accumulated about 10k miles on my ninjette so far. But I don't feel the need for any size of supersport. I just don't feel comfortable with that much power available. I like bikes that are bit more tame and maybe a bit more versatile. I tried to make it down to Biketoberfest for some demo rides but got out there too late in the day. So come Bike Week in Daytona I am making plans on going out there at least twice to try and get on a couple of the 650's from Kawi, Suzuki, and Yami to see what they are like. There's only 2 600's I'm interested in and that's the ZZR 600 (both the older model from the late 90's-2004 and the last one from 2005-2008), and the Katana. I just don't see how people can possibly think that 120hp on a 450ish lb bike is good for a beginner. Why not just toss the keys of a Ferrari Enzo to a kid who just passed his license test? Sure, he can handle it, he's a big man and needs the power *Tim Allen grunt*. |
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November 1st, 2010, 06:08 PM | #3 |
Professional belly dancer
Name: James
Location: Toronto
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 1992 GSX-R 750 Posts: A lot.
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First bike? Usually ill advised.....usually.
Starting out on a smaller bike then progressing quickly to something bigger? Sure..why not? Based on my experience, the power isn't the only issue. It's the temperment of the bike vs the temperment of the rider. SS bikes do what they are told to do....with frightening precision. You put a yahoo on a bike like that and you have trouble. That's it. |
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November 1st, 2010, 06:19 PM | #4 |
Moroccan Gold Imports
Name: RJ
Location: MT
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): '03 ZX9R, '03 ZX7R & wife's '09 250R Posts: 136
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A good friend of mine, who had NO riding experience whatsoever, not even dirt bikes as a kid, bought a brand new GSXR600 against my advice. He totaled it with 92 miles on the odometer. He wouldn't even take the safety course. He promised us all he would ride it slowly (under the speed limit), but after crashing admitted he had it up to 100mph on day 1. His exact words were: "I was fine going in a straight line, it was the corner that screwed me". He flipped over a guard rail, and luckily got away with a broken arm and no life-threatening injuries. The bike was financed and insurance paid it off, fortunately for him. He will never get on a bike again.
Clearly, modern day 600cc+ SS's are NOT beginner's bikes, by any stretch. That said, for experienced riders, a larger bike adds a new dimension to the riding experience. It isn't that I NEED the power the 9R provides, but it is fun to play with and it is also nice to have in traffic, out on the open highway, and even pulling out of turns when riding the twisties. Honestly, riding the bigger bikes makes you appreciate the smaller bikes that much more. Just because you have access to more power, doesn't mean you necessarily have to use it. It all comes down to personal responsibility. |
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November 1st, 2010, 06:50 PM | #5 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Sean
Location: Mary Esther, FL
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 1998 HD Road King Posts: A lot.
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November 1st, 2010, 07:05 PM | #6 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Brian
Location: Detroit, MI
Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Green Posts: A lot.
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November 1st, 2010, 08:03 PM | #7 | |
Mr. 988
Name: Jeff
Location: Sandy, Utah
Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): One Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
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Quote:
Why did you end up with a 250 after all that experience?
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"I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life, the way I want to" - Jimi Hendrix Cancer |
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November 1st, 2010, 08:57 PM | #8 |
ninjette.org member
Name: KT
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 1 of them Big Four Posts: 84
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Well, think of it this way,
beginner bike's = tic-tac-toe 600+ Supersport = Chess For someone that never played before, they can pickup the rulebook and learn the rule of the game, will they be a pro in a short time ? definitely not with Chess, much longer and steeper learning curve, but then there's the Bobby Fischer of the Chess world as well. I personally started on a CBR600 Hurricane, was it a good choice ? financially yes, as I was able to pick it up for chump change(bad cosmetic condition), I want a 250 Ninja, but nothing in my price range, put some miles on it, now I'm on a newer 600RR(noticed I stay in the family ), did I regret my decision ? no, if I could go back, i would probably wait and save up and get a 250 tho , as i said in one of my 1st welcoming post, I get a chance to try out an older 250ninja, and i would say that if i were to start on a 250, i would definitely out corner alot of guys that started out on 600+, So the question of whether a 250 is suggested for beginner or not ? well, if you always something to prove then no, go get yourself a liter bike, or better yet, a hayabusa, but if you want to maximized your skills in the shortest amount of time instead of playing catch up with controlling the power of larger bike, a 250 is definitely a better platform for you. Ride safe everybody |
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November 1st, 2010, 09:09 PM | #9 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Spooph
Location: Golden, CO
Join Date: Jul 2010 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '15
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The first bike I rode, EVER was a 2001 ZX-6R. Perfect beginner bike for somebody!
The second bike I rode, EVER was a 197x CB550. Perfect beginner bike for somebody! The third bike I rode, EVER was a 1993 Vulcan 1500. Perfect beginner bike for somebody! Although I shake your sentiments Jeff concerning smaller bikes, I think Kawboy got it right. Doesn't matter kind of bike your on, if your a moron, your gonna do stupid stuff... I'm a moron, so I started with a cruiser - Kawasaki Eliminator, WAY too much power, but with crap suspension and doo doo ground clearance, learned to be a reasonable rider. Then got tickled by a 1984 VF1000F, the pre-interceptor, and after plowing that into a mountain side (not completely all my fault, but mostly), learned a TON about myself. Went back to my Eliminator for a while, and then against everybody's better council, bought a 250. Now, just short of 80,000 miles in 5 years, since I started riding, I realize that save but a few situations, the 250 is more than enough for what one needs on the open road today. Suffice to say, I really want a 996, and I desperately want a 600 for the track (going fast is just fun, and climbing 2,000 feet in a few miles is no fun on the 250), but I'm loving my 250 more and more, day by day. I have reasons up the yin yang, and nobody wants to read my ramble..... So, as I've found it, different strokes for different folks. "I'm ready for a bigger bike" - think to yourself what you will, nod and smile, and just take the insults, cause it's your life, your bike, and your enjoyment, and somebody could only tear my 250 from "my cold dead hands".... if I don't get buried with it.... I can't wait for next season, I want to head to Utah.... I've seen pics, and you guys have some sick roads... Also, have you ever noticed how you can just be yourself around 250 folk? Or shall I call it small bike folk? They're in it for the fun, for the daily experience, not for the looks, reputation or whatever, at least not nearly as much as the big bike crowd. And that's it, that's the 250... Just plain fun, no extra work in maintaining an image, or in maintaining the bike. So, let me miss-quote Queen: "Get on your bikes and ride!"
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My therapist has 2 wheels and a seat. If you are ever in doubt to my tone, please refer to my avatar. |
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November 1st, 2010, 09:50 PM | #10 | |
Mr. 988
Name: Jeff
Location: Sandy, Utah
Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): One Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
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Quote:
Be sure to look us up when you come to Utah.
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"I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life, the way I want to" - Jimi Hendrix Cancer |
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November 1st, 2010, 10:25 PM | #11 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Cab
Location: Miami Beach
Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): Blue 10 250r Posts: 697
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Dude you don't even understand here in South Florida on the Sport Bike Forum, at least once a week some new guy shows up asking if he should get a liter bike to start. They actually try to justify how a 600 is not enough. "my friends have this, or that" "I need to keep up" "I'll be real careful".... Meanwhile every single person on forum tells then to get a 650r or even a 250. Half the time some wise ass will make fun of them and we'll never see them again.
Till they pop up on the news, for all the wrong reasons. |
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November 2nd, 2010, 05:59 AM | #12 | |
Mr. 988
Name: Jeff
Location: Sandy, Utah
Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): One Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
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Quote:
Do you think that todays performance bikes are too much of a good thing? I lust after them just like the next guy; however, I would love to see more lower powered sport bikes come to the market. Bikes with decent suspensions vs. price-point gear.
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"I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life, the way I want to" - Jimi Hendrix Cancer |
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November 2nd, 2010, 07:19 AM | #13 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Joel
Location: Orlando, FL
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250 Posts: 256
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This is a very good post. It reminds me of...well, me. My first bike was an R6. I rode it on the streets for about a year with no problems, because I did not need to keep up with anyone and do stupid sh!t, just enjoy the ride.
That being said, when I did my first track day and got a chance to start opening it up, I discovered real quick that this bike was not to be triffled with or taken lightly and could get me into a lot of trouble really fast. Neddless to say I wadded it up when I low sided and destroyed the bike as it flipped when it got into the dirt. I went a few years without a ride, until the new generation Ninjette came around. A few people thought I was nuts for getting a 250, but this bike has been probably the best $4k I have ever spent. Rode it on the street for about a year and then turned it into a track bike. Many of the Jennings GP control riders, as well as others that have been doing this for much longer than me, have said I did the right thing and that learning to go fast on a slow bike will only make me a safer and better rider when I step up to a bigger machine. I could not agree more, this bike has taught me a lot and I'm sure it has much more to teach me. So forget what the Thrusday Bike Night poser "Look at my hot litter bike" crowd says. Know that you have done the right thing by starting small. Be safe and enjoy the ride.
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WERA #273 Novice Boogeyman Racing. |
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November 2nd, 2010, 09:50 AM | #14 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: W
Location: Austin, TX
Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250R (sold), 2012 Tuono V4R Posts: 512
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Let's put it this way, from my beginner's point of view.
I've put almost 10,000 miles on my 250R. It's my first bike. I still can't control the bike worth a . Should I even try to go for a 600? I don't think so!
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2010 Kawasaki Ninja 250R - "Aria" (sold) 2012 Aprilia Tuono V4R - "Perrine" Proof that Harleys and Ninjettes are friendly with each other |
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November 2nd, 2010, 09:52 AM | #15 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Marc
Location: Montreal
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 09 250R, 08 connie 14, 08 honda ruckus(gave to mom) Posts: 92
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nice.....the 250 is a fantastic bike, I can't think of one I like more to ride My Connie has only got 600 miles this season the ninja bumped it from a 1400 mile trip, although I should have used the connie
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November 2nd, 2010, 09:55 AM | #16 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Nate
Location: west virginia
Join Date: Apr 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Honda CBR600RR Posts: 633
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It all comes down to responsibility. You do stupid things sure stupid things happen. Pure logic no questions asked. Its no a bike everyone should start out on, but that doesnt mean someone couldnt do it. I'm sure there are plenty of people who should start out smaller. When it comes to advising I always suggest a 250 or 500 as a beginning bike. The problem is most of these retards we here about go out and buy a fast bike (600 +) because the want to go fast and look good doing it. 2 very wrong reason to ever own a bike. It's like a 16yro going out and buying a GTR for his first car. Sure I bet 1 in 50 (guess) could handle owning a car like that and respect it, but the other 49 will end up a statistic.
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"Riding a motorcycle is like playing sports, not everyone is cut out for it." - WVNinja |
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November 2nd, 2010, 09:57 AM | #17 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Nate
Location: west virginia
Join Date: Apr 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Honda CBR600RR Posts: 633
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Bike size will NEVER make up for lack of ability.
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"Riding a motorcycle is like playing sports, not everyone is cut out for it." - WVNinja |
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November 2nd, 2010, 10:15 AM | #18 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Marc
Location: Montreal
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 09 250R, 08 connie 14, 08 honda ruckus(gave to mom) Posts: 92
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November 2nd, 2010, 10:21 AM | #19 |
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Name: rock
Location: greenville, south carolina
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): black Posts: A lot.
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eh, lots of people I know started on 600cc and liter bikes and they're doin fine. It's a person to person basis. Some people are "mature" enough and some aren't.
if you've put 10,000 miles on your bike and really still can't control it well, motorcycles just aren't for you and you really need to get rid of the bike before you die on it. I'm guessin you were just bein funny though
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Always get a second opinion because most of these people are makin' this stuff up |
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November 2nd, 2010, 10:57 AM | #20 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: W
Location: Austin, TX
Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250R (sold), 2012 Tuono V4R Posts: 512
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Well, both funny and serious.
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2010 Kawasaki Ninja 250R - "Aria" (sold) 2012 Aprilia Tuono V4R - "Perrine" Proof that Harleys and Ninjettes are friendly with each other |
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November 2nd, 2010, 11:13 AM | #21 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Carol
Location: Roseville, MI
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R, 2004 BMW 1150RT Posts: 144
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I can add my 2 cents worth as a rider who went from a 1150cc to a 250cc.
It's a fact that I actually enjoy the 250 more than the bigger bike! The ease of shifting/handling is a huge bonus for the Ninja. Being able to put both feet firmly on the ground gives me a secure, warm fuzzy feeling Seriously, for a street bike, what more do you need than a sweet looking sportbike that can do 100 mph? Sure, there are times when I "might" like to have quicker acceleration and I consider something bigger than the 250, but do I "need" it? Nope. I can honestly say that I have learned MORE from riding the 250 than I ever did on the 1150. Mostly because I have never felt as comfortable on the 1150.
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2 fiddy = Street pounding, BMW eating, twisty killer Love machine Don't knock on Death's door. Ring the doorbell and RUN!!! He hates that.... |
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November 2nd, 2010, 12:55 PM | #22 |
Former ninjette rider
Name: Andy
Location: Hibbing, MN
Join Date: May 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Honda CB1000R Posts: 121
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I have a good friend who crashed on a Nighthawk, first time rider, no gear, no permit or license. He now thinks it's a good idea to go with a 600 super sport bike. A fun way to die, I guess?
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We've witnessed your human capacity for war. It would absolutely bring more harm than good. |
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November 2nd, 2010, 01:09 PM | #23 |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
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I started on a 600cc.
Probably explains why I suck at riding/racing. |
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November 2nd, 2010, 01:10 PM | #24 | |
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Name: rock
Location: greenville, south carolina
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): black Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
lol!
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Always get a second opinion because most of these people are makin' this stuff up |
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November 2nd, 2010, 01:12 PM | #25 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: KT
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 1 of them Big Four Posts: 84
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Quote:
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November 2nd, 2010, 05:45 PM | #26 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Alex
Location: Belfast, ME
Join Date: Jul 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Honda NT-700-V, formerly, Green 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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Jeff, You make a good point about the ability to master the Ninjette. It would take many years and lots of miles to ride one like a pro. The 250R is basically a Track Bike. It is unlike any 250 currently available to the general public. True, it makes a great commuter, street bike, even ,by a long stretch, in my opinion, a beginner's bike. I consider the Honda Rebel, Yamaha 250, and Suzuki 250 beginner's bikes--and they are great bikes--all of them. The Ninjette is definitely not in that crowd. It is a Sportbike in all respects and should be treated as such. I'll concede that it is an entry level Sportbike, and that still puts it in another class given what is offered here (in the US). I have been riding 50 years and have logged an excess of 350,000mi. I have NOT mastered the Ninjette by a long shot. Just sit back, look at the bike, and think. There is nothing on this planet like it.
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Ninjette, Sold. New Bike: 2010 Honda NT-700V/VA, 73 Honda 550, 74 Honda 550 |
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November 2nd, 2010, 09:01 PM | #27 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: KT
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 1 of them Big Four Posts: 84
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Quote:
my bad |
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November 3rd, 2010, 01:24 AM | #28 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Chris
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2010 Motorcycle(s): '08 250 Posts: 129
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i started on a 2007 gsxr 600 personally and racked up over 9k on it in the year i had it. they work just fine for learning. before i bought it i was nervous but a friend told me that when i first get it i'll be scared of it and wont go fast. he was right, i eased in. and yes the learning curve might be larger, but the grade is all your choosing. but fastest to the top wins
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November 3rd, 2010, 02:49 AM | #29 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Eric
Location: Iowa City
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawmeracchi 350 2010 Project X Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 54
MOTM - Sep '18, Feb '16
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I started with a zzr 600 . I wish I still had it .(I like my 250 better) But It was a great bike. And I moved up to a bigger bike soon enough . Then after learning to ride .I got a 250 .
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November 3rd, 2010, 08:21 AM | #30 |
Moroccan Gold Imports
Name: RJ
Location: MT
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): '03 ZX9R, '03 ZX7R & wife's '09 250R Posts: 136
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When he hit the guard rail it bent the frame. The thing was really smashed up too in terms of the plastics and bars. He paid over $9k for it at the time, and 92 miles later, worthless. I was just glad he was ok. I didn't even say "I told you so", but it was my first thought. I wasn't even surprised when I got the call.
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November 3rd, 2010, 09:19 AM | #31 | |||
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
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Sorry but I have to disagree with...well, basically everything.
Quote:
Quote:
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The 250 looks and feels sporty but in no means is it a "track bike". But that's not to say you can't make it into a track bike. The 250 is a great entry level bike but even more fun on the track. |
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