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Old August 18th, 2016, 06:07 AM   #1
sp3ak
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Gear Comparison (ATGATT vs. ....)

Co-worker/friend of mine and I rode to work together last week. We had laid our gear down on the table and I thought this would make an interesting picture as a gear comparison.

His gear consists of the helmet on the right and that's about it. My gear is everything else you see (jeans have kevlar & pads). I keep trying to encourage him to get more gear but everyone has the right to make their own decisions I suppose.

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Old August 18th, 2016, 07:56 AM   #2
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Yep. It's his choice. Not your place to be a nanny.

But here's some truth...

scars ain't sexy.





(That's Brittany Morrow, the "Road Rash Queen." Her choice of gear before this happened was the same as your friend's... a helmet. Read her story at http://www.rockthegear.org/ )

Instead of pushing him to get gear, I'd ask this guy just one question:

What exactly do you think is going to happen to you if you go down?

Let him make his own choices. You've made yours and you have your reasons. Stating those reasons is a better way to persuade than telling people what they should do, IMHO.

If your friend is intelligent enough to be worth hanging out with in the first place, he just might get the hint.

I post a lot about gear and ATGATT. The constant drumbeat is why I choose what I choose... leading the horse to water. If that's encouraged someone else to think more critically about protecting themselves, great. That's the goal.
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Old August 18th, 2016, 08:38 AM   #3
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Show him this video (some swearing, so turn the volume down if you are at work) -

Link to original page on YouTube.

The guy wasn't even going very fast. It doesn't take much.

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Old August 18th, 2016, 10:04 AM   #4
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Is that a fly racing backpack??? Looks sweet!

This isn't team America world police we are playing... I wish everyone would dress for the crash, but you know they won't... Gota learn to let folks live an die with the choices they themselves make...

You can't bring freedom and democracy to everyone
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Old August 18th, 2016, 10:14 AM   #5
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Thanks for the links guys, even though I already gear up anyways I always like to educate myself.

@JohnnyBravo - Yes it is, thanks! It's the Fly Racing Jump backpack. Pretty cheap on ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/161424371385...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT). I saw it in a motovlog and instantly decided that was the one. It's very simple, just two pockets. The large pocket has a couple of sleeve type compartments in it. I just needed something simple for if I'm commuting. I also loved the Hi-Vis that way no matter what jacket I'm wearing I can be seen.

Fly Racing has an updated version of the Jump with some new colors now too: http://www.flyracing.com/category/ca...gage/backpacks
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Old August 18th, 2016, 10:27 AM   #6
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Hi-viz is one of my favorite colors!!!
I try to stay up on The fly racing gear, one of my neighbors was / still might be sponsored by them (atv racer) I use to love when they sent him stuff he didn't like.
They make cool stuff in great colors, from mild too wild!!!
Might have to get that backpack; I can't have too many way to tote stuff
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Old August 18th, 2016, 10:31 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo View Post
Hi-viz is one of my favorite colors!!!
I try to stay up on The fly racing gear, one of my neighbors was / still might be sponsored by them (atv racer) I use to love when they sent him stuff he didn't like.
They make cool stuff in great colors, from mild too wild!!!
Might have to get that backpack; I can't have too many way to tote stuff
Someone say Hi viz?

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Old August 18th, 2016, 10:37 AM   #8
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Sweet saddle bags!!!

I have a coat, vest, helmet, shoes, gloves, shorts, sunglasses, shirts, hats... See where I'm goin with this not all mororcycle related but topically appropriate color wise
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Old August 18th, 2016, 10:38 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo View Post
Is that a fly racing backpack??? Looks sweet!

This isn't team America world police we are playing... I wish everyone would dress for the crash, but you know they won't... Gota learn to let folks live an die with the choices they themselves make...

You can't bring freedom and democracy to everyone
That''s true.

But if you care about people (like a friends, relatives, or coworkers), you do your best to educate them.

Some people just can't imagine what is going to happen when you get tossed down the road, or think it could never happen to them - I see them riding around here all day long.

When you have experienced exactly what happens when things go bad you try to convince people that it's worth the effort to be properly prepared.

Doesn't always work.

Last futzed with by jkv45; August 18th, 2016 at 12:33 PM.
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Old August 18th, 2016, 10:43 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo View Post
Sweet saddle bags!!!

I have a coat, vest, helmet, shoes, gloves, shorts, sunglasses, shirts, hats... See where I'm goin with this not all mororcycle related but topically appropriate color wise
They were on sale, $50. Black was 85 or something. I can fit 4 days worth of clothes, shoes, toiletries, 12V air compressor, chain lube and tire plugs in there.
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Old August 18th, 2016, 10:46 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
That''s true.

But if you care about people (like a relative or coworker), you do your best to educate them.

Some people just can't imaging what is going to happen when you get tossed down the road, or think it could never happen to them - I see them riding around here all day long.

When you have experienced exactly what happens when things go bad you try to convince people that it's worth the effort to be properly prepared.

Doesn't always work.
True it always nice to try and educate folks, help them out, show them the light, and all that.
I know folks that are rashed up and still don't wear gear, they come out of the hospital, get their casts off and go right back out in shorts and tshirts. Yup I tell them they are dumb, an try to avoid them so they don't rub their stupidity off on me, but they never listened to anyone before

Idk, it's just one of those days
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Old August 18th, 2016, 10:49 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by RacinNinja View Post
They were on sale, $50. Black was 85 or something. I can fit 4 days worth of clothes, shoes, toiletries, 12V air compressor, chain lube and tire plugs in there.
The army taught me how to fit most of that in an earplug case
You could about ride around the world with all that
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Old August 18th, 2016, 11:29 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sp3ak View Post
Co-worker/friend of mine and I rode to work together last week. We had laid our gear down on the table and I thought this would make an interesting picture as a gear comparison.

His gear consists of the helmet on the right and that's about it. My gear is everything else you see (jeans have kevlar & pads). I keep trying to encourage him to get more gear but everyone has the right to make their own decisions I suppose.

Tell him that my last two wrecks would have put me in the hospital if I wasn't wearing gear.


In reality, good luck. Most people are stubborn and set in their ways. Hopefully he smarts up and gets gear.
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Old August 19th, 2016, 01:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
Yep. It's his choice. Not your place to be a nanny.

But here's some truth...

scars ain't sexy.



(SNIP)
Here's another article about her -

http://sportbike.natkd.com/road_rash.htm
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Old September 14th, 2016, 08:13 PM   #15
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Tell him that those gears would not guarantee his survival in a crash.

But it can increase the percentage. Then why gamble?
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Old September 15th, 2016, 08:13 AM   #16
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Well he's certainly not a dummy but he's made his choice(s). I'm gonna keep rocking all my gear and be happy!
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Old September 15th, 2016, 12:31 PM   #17
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i say let people make their own choices. it will help humanity in the long run.
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Old September 15th, 2016, 03:37 PM   #18
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My 2¢,

I know Brittany "Queen B"Morrow, we worked together, rode together, she's an amazing lady. She got me interested in becoming a rider coach. Her story is a wake up call for sure, not only for gear, but she was a passenger when her accident happened.

I'm an advocate for ATGATT, but in the end it's a personal choice, the best one can do is educate, and hope they listen.

I feel the need to share this posting from the EX-500.COM that happened back in 2009, but it's a timeless story,

the lessons from my mistake (somewhat graphic, be careful)

It's a simple enough story, that went totally wrong, by a fellow forum member by the name of mgbenny

Here is his first post in the long thread, which has over 30,000 views.

Quote:
So. I'm going to try to be direct and straightforward in hopes that anyone who reads this will learn better than I seem to have learned. I made many, many mistakes in the course of this story and I'm aware of them all. If you want to flame, flame away, but I'm already sick over what happened and just don't want it to happen to anyone else.

I had my first wreck Thursday night. I had a passenger, which changed the handling of the bike, and I wasn't careful enough. A turn snuck up on us in the dark, and I ran out of lean and lowsided at about 35 mph. We were just going around the corner for a burrito; no gear, no helmets. (not even going to begin to rationalize any of this. Like I said, this was all a result of many bad decisions on my part, and I completely accept that).

I'm sure we only slid for a second or so but I remember it vividly. The bike threw up a storm of sparks, she landed on me and we went over and over. I remember every time she came over me, I was trying to keep her off the asphalt. Then everything stopped and was silent, and the sickest single moment of my life occurred as I thought "I've killed a person. I've killed her." Then time started up again and she started crying. I called my friend from around the corner who took us to the hospital, where I sat with her for 8 hours while she got checked out.

The damages: I've lost lots of skin. I mean, lots. I've never hurt this badly in my life. It was just skin and I'm uninsured, so I thought "I'll take care of it myself." and declined admission to the ER. Scrubbing it out without morphine is the single most painful 30 minutes I've ever felt.

As far as she goes: she's pretty damn rashed up. Probably worse than me. She split her head open over her eyebrow, and it's swelled her eye shut. Two inches to the left and she would have died instantly. She came down hard on her hip and knee, and can't bend them for the swelling. Her x-rays came back clean, so no broken bones. She's medicated, safe at home, and never wants to see me again. I wouldn't either.

Listen up kids. When you ride 2-up, you take somebody's life in your hands. You had damn well better be prepared for that responsibility. I've spend quite a bit of time today sitting on the floor of my room sobbing that I'm such a jackass that I almost took a life. I took responsibility for another person and failed miserably. It's the sickest feeling in the world and I want to spare you all from it. I would give anything in my entire life for the last two days to have never happened.

Pictures below for the strong of stomach, in hopes of scaring you all into being wise. I would accept this unblinkingly as a damn good warning, had I been alone. But someone I care about is in even worse shape, and I am 100% responsible. I never wanted to know what that feels like.

All but the last photo were taken in the hospital bathroom while she was being x-rayed.

Right arm:


Left arm. This one bled for 10 hours:


Left hand. Note the missing skin. By now, 2 days later, it's peeled back about another half-inch around the abrasion:


Left leg. These were my good, heavy pants. They lasted about 6 inches:


Shoulder to waist. If you look closely, you can see all the buttons ripped out of the shirt and I dragged on that side. There's gravel so deep on my pec that I'll never get it out:


At home:


The nurse sent extra stuff with Catie so I could get cleaned up too. What she didn't send was the several vials of morphine that Catie had in her when then scrubbed her out. Tylenol isn't the same. I screamed, threw up, and passed out cleaning these. And the whole time I'm dealing with the fact that I knew better and was in control, and I did this to somebody else who did NOT have control. Day 2, and it's not any easier to live with.

I tried to be completely frank about how I'm feeling in an effort to make the truth set in on you guys. I was a literal 2 inches away from killing her, because I thought we didn't need gear to go 5 blocks, and because she liked the thrill of leaning and I wanted to impress her. Nobody's impressed now.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2009, 12:54:14 AM by mgbenny »
I consider MGBENNY, my close forum friend, and that is why I'm sharing this, along with my other personal friend Britney "QUEEN B" Morrow's story and website (www.rockthegear.org) on all my post as part of my signature.

And why I'm such a strong supporter of her cause, and A.T.G.A.T.T.

If this post saves just one person, it is worth it, and makes one think before riding with no gear.

And if videos are your thing, then check these out,

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old September 15th, 2016, 04:13 PM   #19
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Wear the gears; all the time!
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Old September 15th, 2016, 05:33 PM   #20
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As a person who has crashed with and with out gear I still some times ride in short's/ flip flops/ t-shirt and sun glass.
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Old September 15th, 2016, 05:36 PM   #21
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I would love to ride in shorts, and flip flops, but the reality of the real world is harsh, painful, and expensive to say the least.

Injury, cost, lost time at work, or even worse, there's no guarantees even with full gear, but your odds are dramatically increased for sure when you look at the studies done.

As a rider coach, I'm bound by the code of conduct, which isn't a problem for me.

During teaching the MSF BRC I've been asked why a long sleeve shirt is acceptable, we explain it's do to we are riding at low speed, non road speeds, we also require a 3/4 or full face, gloves that cover the fingers, and foot wear that covers the ankle. I explain that this is the minimum for training in a low speed, closed course environment.
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Old September 16th, 2016, 09:50 AM   #22
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Spend a grand now on gear or spend over 10 grand later on the hospital bill.

It serves it's purpose, but it is also up to the rider which they choose. Not here to shove an idea down someone's throat but common sense tells you which is the better choice. You pick, like everything in life you have to live with your decision and outcomes based on it.
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Old September 16th, 2016, 05:56 PM   #23
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I would love to ride in shorts, and flip flops, but the reality of the real world is harsh, painful, and expensive to say the least.

Injury, cost, lost time at work, or even worse, there's no guarantees even with full gear, but your odds are dramatically increased for sure when you look at the studies done.

As a rider coach, I'm bound by the code of conduct, which isn't a problem for me.

During teaching the MSF BRC I've been asked why a long sleeve shirt is acceptable, we explain it's do to we are riding at low speed, non road speeds, we also require a 3/4 or full face, gloves that cover the fingers, and foot wear that covers the ankle. I explain that this is the minimum for training in a low speed, closed course environment.
Well after seeing my dad killed in a MC crash at 35MPH with a full face helmet on and a motorcycle jacket. I have kind lived my life with a little bit of when its my time to die I am going to die. Now that is not to say that I do not always take steps that can help me live longer. Like I did have full leather gear on when me and Nevada Wolf did the ride from PHX AZ - AB NM. The fact is every one takes risk and it cracks me up when I see the ones who blast down a hill at 65+ on a bicycle with nothing more then spandex and a modified ice chest on there head. But then get on a site and say ATGATT.
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Old September 16th, 2016, 06:20 PM   #24
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It's true that I ride my bicycle in spandex, though not at 65+. I'm a lot slower than that

To be fair, a lot of crashes are caused by traffic, which isn't a problem on the trail. And the user-error crashes, well, that's under my control, and my riding style is generally chicken. Falling hurts these days.

I dress better on my road bicycle, where I do deal with traffic, but still in super-chicken-mode. Never trust anybody. It was good training for picking up the motorcycle.
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Old September 16th, 2016, 10:52 PM   #25
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It's true that I ride my bicycle in spandex, though not at 65+. I'm a lot slower than that

To be fair, a lot of crashes are caused by traffic, which isn't a problem on the trail. And the user-error crashes, well, that's under my control, and my riding style is generally chicken. Falling hurts these days.

I dress better on my road bicycle, where I do deal with traffic, but still in super-chicken-mode. Never trust anybody. It was good training for picking up the motorcycle.
So you don't ride like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv9U_gYdi5E
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Old September 17th, 2016, 08:35 PM   #26
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Um... no. I don't. I've even been passed by a bicycle on a particular canyon that was very tight-twisty and that I needed to take slowly.

I was going to say I needed to go slow on the ninjette, but I would have been slow on a bicycle, too.
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Old September 29th, 2016, 08:11 PM   #27
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One of my friends is a dirt bike rider, but refuses to ride a motorcycle because she thinks the gear will still rip apart and you will get road rash.
How would you respond?
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Old September 29th, 2016, 08:19 PM   #28
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One of my friends is a dirt bike rider, but refuses to ride a motorcycle because she thinks the gear will still rip apart and you will get road rash.
How would you respond?
If you have cheap gear, you have a good chance of that happening. If you wear no gear, you have no insurance at all against road rash. Leather and textile gear sold through decent brands have already proven themselves.

Skepticism is healthy, but I like to stand on 20 when I can.
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Old September 30th, 2016, 05:09 AM   #29
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One of my friends is a dirt bike rider, but refuses to ride a motorcycle because she thinks the gear will still rip apart and you will get road rash.
How would you respond?
Flying said it. Cheap mesh or textile gear? Yeah, she's got a case. Good gear? Well...



Link to original page on YouTube.

There is nothing magical about these suits. It's just good quality, properly fitted, leather gear.

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Old September 30th, 2016, 09:58 AM   #30
CaliGrrl
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Yeah, good gear should hold up. Riders crash on the track and their gear holds up.
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Old October 3rd, 2016, 10:17 AM   #31
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I'm not into losing skin, I know how bad it hurts.., so I wear full leathers now. Like a lot of people I started out with just jeans and a t shirt, tennis shoes, bare hands..basically no protection other than a full face helmet, and although I never went down like that, I could certainly see the potential to get badly rashed up at 60-70mph on the roads here, which are like 36grit sandpaper. For about the past month I've been wearing the leathers/armor, and although its bulky and a little uncomfortable, I feel a lot safer overall. I feel naked riding in just jeans and a t shirt now, there's no going back for me. I know its not gonna save me if I run into a large immovable object at speed, or from the idiot drivers out there pulling out in front of me at the last second, but I certainly feel better about riding with it than without.
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Old October 3rd, 2016, 05:07 PM   #32
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I used to ride pillion as a young adult in a non-motorcycle leather jacket, jeans, and tennis shoes. Did wear a good helmet, but that's about all I did right.

Older now, hopefully smarter, and have better gear. It may be hot in the summer, but that's ok.
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