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Old November 9th, 2017, 11:23 AM   #1
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Rebuilding 04 Ninja 250

A couple years ago I bought a 2004 Ninja 250 for $250. It was non-running, had already sat for a number of years after the rider crashed, and had some rust and paint was failing everywhere. That being said, aside from a broken rearset, some scrapes, and one fairing broken it wasn't bad, especially for $250. Plus since the guy was moving, he gave me his helmet and my a sedici leather jacket with liner that fit me perfectly. When I went to check it out it turned over, the electrical worked with a jump, and I almost got it started. So I loaded it up and brought it home. Right off the bat, I cleaned and rebuilt the carbs, threw them on and started up and ran the engine just fine. Then it sat for another year until I started working on it again. I'm not far from finishing it now, and will have it done this month, but I wanted to show a bit of how it's progressed. I lost the pics from when I first bought it, but hope you enjoy seeing it progress all the same.

Cleaned and Rebuilt Carbs:



Aside from what I've already said, I tore the entire bike down to the frame, but left the wiring harness one. The frame's paint was still good, so I didn't touch it. At one point I considered turning it into a cafe racer, but finances and time got the better of that idea.

Tear down:



Starting with painting since it looked like ****, I wet sanded everything, and did my best to get stickers off that had sealed to the plastics and tank due to weathering and sitting untouched for so long.

Heavily wet sanded tank, ready to be painted hanging in DIY paint booth:


I've always wanted a purple bike like the old 90s FZR600s, but again I was on a tight budget. As such a trip to Walmart was in order. I went with Krylon's purple, and decided to stick with Krylon for all painting on this bike to be consistent and have the best results. After wet sanding, I sprayed Krylon white primer on all plastics and the tank, which set really well. Then I sprayed everything with purple, which looked really good. It was when I used Krylon's gloss clear coat that I ran into problems. First off, clear coat is a very different beast from paint, and as such requires different procedures and curing. However, Krylon being a cheap spray paint company, used the same exact directions on the clear coat can as the spray paint and primer. What happened is it would no go on at the same distance as the paint, and required me to get closer and spray quite liberally just for it to apply. As such, it was very difficult finding the right balance to apply but not drip. In addition, because of the condition of the paint and plastics from their time sitting, and the damage from it crashing meant there was contamination. This became very apparent when the clear coat hit the paint, and it immediately crackled. I had to wet sand, prime, paint, and attempt clear coating 3 times just to have it crackle again a little less got annoying and spendy. It also took at least an entire can of clear coat just to do one part, so eventually I just called it good and moved on. I'll practice more later when this bike is done. If the picture below you'll notice the front fairing missing, it'd been completely destroyed in the crash. As such I'm just putting on an aftermarket headlight and maybe even aftermarket cluster.

The purple painted parts prior to clear coating:



Once that was done, since the powder coat on the swing arm was pretty scratched up and worn, I decided to try and powder coat it, so I built a DIY sandblasting cabinet and bought plastic blasting media:

DIY Sandblasting cabinet:



After hours and hours of blasting it though, it still wasn't down to bare metal except in a few spots. I still had some metalic gunmetal Krylon dualbond paint left over from another project, and decided to try that out. I primed the swingarm with gray primer, and then sprayed it. It turned out amazing, and used less than one can of Krylon Dualbond. If anyone wants to rattlecan something, I highly suggest this about $5 a can Krylon paint. Having used $30+ custom colors from Industrial Finished, this stuff turned out almost as good. Plus it was almost impossible to get a drip or run. This is the end result:

Krylon Dualbond painted swingarm:


Since the pre-gen 250's have some extra metal parts for mounting the brake caliper, I also sandblasted the brake mounting arm down to bare metal, and powder coated it matte black with powder coat just from Harbor Freight. It also turned out awesome, and I'm excited to do more powder coating in the future!

Powder coated brake caliper mounting arm:



Once all the parts I wanted repainted and powder coated were done, I cleaned the entire bike, and overhauled the front end, re-greasing the steering stem bearings, inspected the forks, flushed and replaced the fork oil, and then put it all back together. Then I threw the engine back in, and in the process set all the valve clearances to the maximum for better low end to mid power, and to last longer. Having done the clearances on inline 4s, V4s, and the 08-12 250s, I can say this was easier than shimming. It still was time intensive, but definitely easier.

Front end rebuilt, engine in, valve clearances done:



That's where I'm at at this point, still working on it. Next is to set up the handlebars and controls, I'm putting clip ons on instead of the stock handlebars. I'll post more on this as it goes, and try to remember to post a picture of how bad the plastics were prior to repainting them, as well as the crackling that happened.
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Old November 9th, 2017, 11:39 AM   #2
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I highly recommend Spraymax 2K for the clear coat, no matter what's underneath. Of course it's best to test on a scrap of similar material, or the back side of a fairing just to verify compatibility.

It's 2-part acrylic urethane in a spray can. You push a button on the bottom firmly and it releases the hardener, then you shake and spray. They say its pot life is something like 2 days, but if you put it in the refrigerator it'll go at least a week and still be good.

It takes about two cans to do a standard type motorcycle in a couple coats, so with fairings it'll need more.
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Old November 9th, 2017, 11:56 AM   #3
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Nice! Yeah I'm definitely never using Krylon clear coat again. The paint itself isn't bad on a budget, but that clear coat was murder. Once this bike is done I'm going to do a lot of painting and powder coating. I want to do an iridescent purple powder coat with clear cot powder on top. The one I'm looking at it requires a silver or chrome powder coat base to do correctly, so I'll be playing with partial cures between applications.
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Old November 9th, 2017, 12:21 PM   #4
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Nice job! That purple looks awesome!!!
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Old November 9th, 2017, 03:13 PM   #5
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Thanks man! It didn't turn out after the clear coat fiasco, but it'll do for this time.
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Old November 11th, 2017, 10:43 PM   #6
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Working today I found something I forgot about, at some point someone installed a Scorpio alarm system on the bike. I believe it requires a remote in order to function, but just thought it was interesting. I also believe it's missing a part, as there's one 3 port connection that's disconnected and doesn't seem to have anything to go to. I'll likely end up just removing it all together, but interesting to see it all the same.





Had to order front brake pads, and a gear change lever bolt, since I stole it for my 06 636. The handlebars are on and controls mostly mounted, position isn't 100% set yet until I get it started, tuned, and plastics and seat on. Also got the carbs in place, and the air filter and box cleaned, was about to put it on and noticed I was missing the clamps. Installed the rear brake, and the new right rear-set, and set the tension on the brake switch. Bought clamps, I'll put the airbox in and attempt a startup tomorrow.






Also just to show how about where this bike started out, this is what the front plastics look like.



More to come as I complete it, it's getting close. As soon as I get it started and tuned, it's all downhill work from there.
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Old November 14th, 2017, 09:25 PM   #7
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Bad news today. Started it up, it started up literally the moment I pressed the starter, it was an amazing feeling. It idled well, warmed up and all was going well. Then I added a touch of throttle, and it died. Started it up again, but it took quite a bit like it was flooded. It seemed to be idling fine, and then I noticed a pretty good oil leak. At first I thought it was coming from the oil filter cover, which would have been great compared to what was really happening.

Shut it off immediately and started cleaning up the oil, and noticed it was coming from the number two header. Cleaned it up, noticed one of the nuts was loose, tightened it down and double checks the rest of the nuts. Started it up again to check for any smoke coming out of the exhaust. There was smoke coming out of both exhausts, whitish blue on number two, and blue on number 1. Shut it off immediately, and noticed there were two leaks in the number 2 exhaust, one was oil, the other was fuel. Plus the number 1 exhaust continued to smoke for a few seconds after shut down.

I'm going to run a compression test on both cylinders, but I suspect the piston rings are gone. It's a surprise as there were no indicators that they had froze up, or were going out prior to this. When I first got the bike it was non-running, but I got it running within a week after I bought it and it had run well for a bike that had sat for years, and had no leaks at that time.

The closest indication, which doesn't always mean the rings are going (as it's not a reading on the rings, just how the bike was ridden and maintained) is that I did the valve clearances, and many of the exhaust valves had little to no clearance at all. For a bike with 19k miles on it, that's been down and the condition I found it in, it tells me it was ridden hard and not very well maintained. I did get the bike really cheap, and haven't put much money into it, just time. Since I've put a lot of work into it, it's still quite a let down.

I'll know more once I run compression tests, but it's looking like bare minimum of a top end overhaul. I may just have to sell the bike as is, or at least the frame and title and rebuild this engine for my racebike.

Here's the bike just prior to starting it up, exhausts were put on just after I took this photo.


I'll post again when I find out more and make a decision.
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Old November 14th, 2017, 10:01 PM   #8
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Could be stuck rings in lands. Do piston-soak for 6-hrs using 3-5cc of 50/50 ATF/acetone mixture. Crank engine to blow out residual mixture before re-installing plugs. I’ve gotten engines with 20% compression back up to 98-99% full-compression this way.
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Old November 14th, 2017, 10:25 PM   #9
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Yeah but usually you feel that, and I did the valve clearances so I turned it over by hand quite a bit. It's doing the same thing that happened on my KZ750 and that was the rings too. I'm really hoping it's not the rings, and then I can fix it much easier and move on, but it's not looking good. I'll know more once I do a compression leak down test.
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Old November 14th, 2017, 10:29 PM   #10
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I'd much rather have it be stuck rings in the lands, so much better. If it comes back as the rings I'll definitely do that before I give up on it just to be sure.
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Old November 18th, 2017, 08:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacRyann View Post
Could be stuck rings in lands. Do piston-soak for 6-hrs using 3-5cc of 50/50 ATF/acetone mixture. Crank engine to blow out residual mixture before re-installing plugs. I’ve gotten engines with 20% compression back up to 98-99% full-compression this way.
So I talked to my instructors, and they said that you're most likely right, one suggested soaking with marvel mystery oil, which I've always thought was a joke. Anyway, bought a bottle, set cylinders to TDC respectively, pulled the spark plugs and poured in the Marvel Mystery oil, oil to have it leak out of the hole in the side of the head on the left side of the bike, which I didn't think was possible. Plugged it temporarily, filled it again and even at TDC or BDC the MM Oil leaked out of the exhausts on both cylinders. It doesn't seem to be leaking back into the case. Now I'm starting to highly suspect the exhaust valves are part of the problem as well. When I did the valves after all, almost all of them had little to no clearance, and there's almost 20k on the bike. I'm starting to wonder if the exhausts are even making a full seal ever. Letting it soak right now for a few days, going to turn it over and refresh the soak every day. Then Ill do a full compression test on either Monday or Tuesday.
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Old November 18th, 2017, 09:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaBraap View Post
pulled the spark plugs and poured in the Marvel Mystery oil, oil to have it leak out of the hole in the side of the head on the left side of the bike, which I didn't think was possible.
what is this “hole in side of head”???

50/50 acetone/ATF mixture has much more cutting power than MMO.
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Old November 18th, 2017, 09:37 PM   #13
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what is this “hole in side of head”???

50/50 acetone/ATF mixture has much more cutting power than MMO.
Yeah they said that it should do just as well, but we'll see. Like I said I've always thought it was snake oil myself.

Anyway, here's a reference photo to the hole, I knew you'd ask. This isn't my engine in the photo, but it's a machined hole built into all of the engines from the looks of it.

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Old November 19th, 2017, 05:15 AM   #14
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Ah, that's the hole to drain spark-plug tube! Yeah, cover that hole in order to pour solvents into cylinders.

Now stuff coming out exhaust is fine because exhaust valves on one cylinder or other will always be open; cam duration is a massive 280-degrees. What you'll want to do is use neither TDC or BDC because one or other will be at TDC or BDC. instead, set crank so that both cylinders are halfway between TDC and BDC.

Then measure the amount you're pouring in. Once the top of piston is coated, extra will not increase coverage; extra will just go out exhaust because it's lower. Maybe jack up front of bike so piston-tops are more level.

BTW - do you have borescope? I always look inside to see exactly what I'm dealing with.

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Old November 19th, 2017, 12:38 PM   #15
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Oh wow yeah that is massive. Which reminds me I've never seen timing data on this bike, is it in the service manual? If not got a link? Yeah I was thinking that last night, I'll set it in between and hopefully it'll hold volume better.

I do have a borescope, but it's such a pain in the ass that I usually use it as a last resort since it's actually easier for me to do compression test or even use a mirror and flashlight.
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Old November 19th, 2017, 04:54 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacRyann View Post
BTW - do you have borescope? I always look inside to see exactly what I'm dealing with.
Well turned it over quite a bit by hand, maybe it's my imagination but felt better. Anyway, looked down in the cylinders with a flash light. Piston 1 has heavy carbon deposits, piston 2 looks almost clean as a whistle, just bit on the head.

Set both to inbetween TDC and BDC, visually filled the cylinders again to soak. I'll turn it over tomorrow, and then either tomorrow or Tuesday do a compression check after blowing everything out.
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Old December 26th, 2017, 07:29 AM   #17
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Update?

I know it's been a while but I'd sure like to know where this one went.
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Old December 26th, 2017, 10:23 AM   #18
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Quick update from holiday vacation to the coast:

Successfully unstuck the rings once, fixed the oil bypass while running (no more blue smoke), but one cylinder still smoked white smoke and leaked fuel, so heavily suspected one intake valve not seating properly. Because it was finals, and then the beginning of break the bike sat for about 2 weeks.

Ordered compression testing tools, and proceeded to do a compression test. Since I'd had problems in the past with compression sparkplug adapters getting stuck in the cylinder, I was very careful and gentle about screwing in the compression tester, and even set it, and then removed it to make sure it'd work. Ran my compression test on cylinder 1 (numbers came up as a range from 115-125psi, wayyyyy too low, and definitely showing the rings were stuck again as well as the improper seating valve), and then when I went to remove the tester to move to cylinder 2, the adapter didn't come with it. Tried to get it out for an hour, only to have the brass adapter completely shear off while UNSCREWING it. Weirdest and most aggravating mechanical problem I've ever run into. Was so pissed I decided to move on to other projects for a while.

Where I'm at basically is, when all these problems came to a head, I decided it was time to just pull the head of and do a top end overhaul. It'll be the most direct and honestly pain free method at this point, and it'll run better than ever afterwards.

As usual, when there's more to report, I'll post here.
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Old December 28th, 2017, 12:14 AM   #19
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With modern Sunnen machines that uses cutters instead of stones, you can easily optimize seat profile for maximum flow. Forget about old-fashioned tricks like 5 or 7-angle seats. Those don't flow much more than 3-angles when compared to fully-radiused seat which flows significantly more than all of them. Here's one I did on a Porsche last year:



Berylium-copper seats transfers heat much, much faster to prevent burnt and worn valves. Also back-cut valves while you're there.
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Old March 31st, 2019, 02:01 PM   #20
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I never finished this thread, and it's been quite some time but I finally finished the bike! It runs great, and isn't far off the mark of what I wanted for it.

While it ultimately was more work than is worth it in the future, I brought it back from the dead, and learned a lot in the process.

Currently selling it in SoCal if anyone's interested (Clean Oregon title). I built it intending to take it to the track, but on a budget. More work than cost went into this ultimately, I kept major modifications to a minimum. The key focus was reliability and handling. It has a 2010 Ninja 250 rear shock so the pre-load is adjustable. A short list of what was done:

- Top end completely rebuilt and broken in.
- Carbs freshly sonic cleaned, rebuilt, and jetted and shimmed for pod filters with OEM exhaust
- New pod filters
- Forks rebuilt, new oil and seals
- Fresh coats of paint on exhaust
- All fluids (coolant, oil, brake fluid) flushed and brand new
- New K&N oil filter
- New brake pads
- Bodywork repainted
- Swingarm refreshed and repainted
- 2010 Ninja 250 adjustable rear shock
- New battery
- New spark plugs
- All LED lighting and digital cluster
- Integrated tail light
- Rear fender eliminated
- New chain
- Purple OEM powder coated wheels with new bearings, seals, and valve stems
- New Pirelli Diablo Scooter Tires (110/70-16 Front, 130/80-16 Rear)
- Second set of wheels with good Dunlops still mounted
- Clip on handlebars and new grips
- Entire bike tore down, cleaned, re-greased

A few photos of the finished product:









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Old March 31st, 2019, 02:57 PM   #21
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What kind of paint did you use on exhaust?
Is it surviving the heat OK?
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Old March 31st, 2019, 03:01 PM   #22
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DanoXYZ, it's exhaust paint. Specifically meant for exhausts, extreme high temps, so it's doing just fine. However, if any fuel or brake cleaner (and I mean even the slightest) gets on, it comes right off. Kind of weird how that works, since normal paint is more resistant than this.
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Old March 31st, 2019, 03:09 PM   #23
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Ah, so one of those spray cans of VHT stuff? I may just try that on some bare spots I have on mufflerz.
Thx!
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Old March 31st, 2019, 04:38 PM   #24
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Yep, cheap but effective on a budget. Looks better than all scratched up.
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Old March 31st, 2019, 07:46 PM   #25
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I like that dash! Matches paint!!!
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Old March 31st, 2019, 09:57 PM   #26
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Yeah it was really affordable too, but the instructions were non-existant. Thankfully the dealer on Amazon actually was very responsive, and with some research, cross reference with similar cluster diagrams, and the dealer's communication I was able to come up with an accurate diagram for it.

If you ever buy one hit me up and I'll send over the diagram. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Old August 4th, 2019, 05:37 PM   #27
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Name: Tom
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Sold it today, unfortunately for so much less than it was worth. Got screwed over by a business partner and didn't get paid for an entire month of work. Thankfully the buyer was truly interested in it, and will probably be a customer of mine now.
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