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Old November 27th, 2014, 12:07 AM   #1
RandomPhantom
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08 250r issues

Hello so lately i have been experiencing hard starting issues with my ninja 250r, all of the times it has a hard time starting is when its cold or left sitting for a few hours. On top of this once it does start the idle is extremely weak. even with the choke pulled all the way down and letting it sit with the choke running for a min the idle is still extremely weak and will die really easily when given gas. What can be the cause? My bike is an 08, 33k miles, carbs have NOT been pulled or cleaned (I ride it everyday, 70 miles every day), valve adjustments has not been done yet either. Any other problems that could cause this problem?
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Old November 27th, 2014, 03:26 AM   #2
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When was the last service done, in miles and time? Might be due.

Check the air filter, make sure it's not blocked. You could try some carb cleaner in your next tank of fuel. Try leaving the choke on for 10 seconds or so before starting the bike.

Do you give it a bit of throttle when starting? Just a little to get the revs up

Last futzed with by Linkin; December 9th, 2014 at 11:06 PM.
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Old November 27th, 2014, 09:41 AM   #3
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Assuming you checked the simple stuff already...

Battery still good? airbox and filter clean and clear? Then... 33k without a valve check . Hard cold starts but easy warm starts point to valves. It's time, and your way past due! Might as well check and clean those carbs while you got the bike down for maintenance. It's only a few hours work tops.
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Old November 27th, 2014, 01:33 PM   #4
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Air filter is clean still, not gunked up and dirty. As for the battery reading i did that while i had the tank and seat off to adjust my choke. Oddly enough the batter voltage was at 12.84V which i thought was abnormally high since the battery rating i saw on the label was for 12V and i didnt run the bike prior either. Also i did have the choke on for a few before starting and everytime it just started with the choke off and i give it a few blips i have to be really careful on how slow i blip i cause it hesitates like crazy and if i just outright give it gas itll just die. even when slowly giving it throttle i can hear that thing want to die and stall.
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Old November 27th, 2014, 01:49 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by RandomPhantom View Post
.............. Also i did have the choke on for a few before starting and everytime it just started with the choke off and i give it a few blips i have to be really careful on how slow i blip i cause it hesitates like crazy and if i just outright give it gas itll just die. even when slowly giving it throttle i can hear that thing want to die and stall.
Poor clearance in valves.
Yes, that clearance gets reduced with the usage of the engine and messes the proper timing and breathing, which makes combustion at low rpm's harder to keep.

Also drain the carburetor's bowls and adjust the idle rpm's.

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Draining_the_carbs

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What_is...I_adjust_it%3F

If you ride everyday, the jets and internal passages of the carburetor should be clean.

Sometimes vacuum hoses get old and develop cracks that allow air intrusion.
That also works against a smooth sustainable idle.

Check this out:
http://www.iwemalpg.com/Vacuum_gauge.htm
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Old November 29th, 2014, 12:54 AM   #6
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how hard is it to do a valve adjustment and clean the carbs or possibly replace the jets inside the carb as well for a person that hasnt done it ever before?
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Old November 29th, 2014, 10:23 AM   #7
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how hard is it to do a valve adjustment and clean the carbs or possibly replace the jets inside the carb as well for a person that hasnt done it ever before?
What year is your Ninja Tony?

I wouldn't do more than one change/service at once, before road testing the machine.

The reason is that if something become bad, you will not know what was the last work that induced it.
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Old November 29th, 2014, 10:34 AM   #8
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33k and no vale adjustment. Get that done and clean the carbs if you still have the issue come back and report on it.
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Old November 29th, 2014, 01:42 PM   #9
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year is a '08 ninja and i will do the simpliest one first then. Drain the carbs and if the problem still persists i will clean the carbs then and ill save the valve adjust for last. is that a smart plan on going about things?
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Old November 29th, 2014, 02:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomPhantom View Post
year is a '08 ninja and i will do the simpliest one first then. Drain the carbs and if the problem still persists i will clean the carbs then and ill save the valve adjust for last. is that a smart plan on going about things?
no, since valves should have been adjusted 20,000 miles ago. They are suppose to be inspected at 12,000 and 24,000.

from the owner's manual:

Quote:
If valve clearance is left unadjusted, wear will eventually cause the valves to remain partly open, which lowers performance, burns the valves and valve seats, and may cause serious engine damage.
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Old November 29th, 2014, 03:24 PM   #11
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no, since valves should have been adjusted 20,000 miles ago. They are suppose to be inspected at 12,000 and 24,000.

from the owner's manual:
Sh*t nice catch man. I will do that then. Ill just bring it to a shop to get it done since my only day free is sunday. how often should the valves be checked?
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Old November 29th, 2014, 03:44 PM   #12
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recommendation is every 12k miles.
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Old November 29th, 2014, 03:59 PM   #13
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alright ill get on that ASAP. thanks for the help.
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Old November 29th, 2014, 04:32 PM   #14
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When you check the valves make sure you replace the spark plugs. I adjusted my valves at 12k and have inspected them without needing to adjust then at 20k, 30k, 40k, and 50k. I install new plugs at 12k and by the time I reached 40K it was running a bit weak in the cold at first start up so I figured I'd need to actually make an adjustment to the valves this time around. To my surprise the valves where still fine but the electrode on the spark plugs where burned away from use and the gap was 0.012" over spec. I dropped in new plugs and it fired up and ran nice and clean just like it did 30k miles ago. I'm not saying to replace plugs then if it doesn't work check your valves, you must do both at this point.
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Old November 30th, 2014, 03:36 AM   #15
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When you check the valves make sure you replace the spark plugs. I adjusted my valves at 12k and have inspected them without needing to adjust then at 20k, 30k, 40k, and 50k. I install new plugs at 12k and by the time I reached 40K it was running a bit weak in the cold at first start up so I figured I'd need to actually make an adjustment to the valves this time around. To my surprise the valves where still fine but the electrode on the spark plugs where burned away from use and the gap was 0.012" over spec. I dropped in new plugs and it fired up and ran nice and clean just like it did 30k miles ago. I'm not saying to replace plugs then if it doesn't work check your valves, you must do both at this point.
Spark plugs were replaced not that long ago (Approx. 4000 miles ago) still think i should do this as a package? Im planning on replacing all my valve shims along with valve cover gasket. Hopefully it goes well, never done this service before. Im just confused on how to drop the engine and timing everything.
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Old December 9th, 2014, 10:36 PM   #16
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Well bad luck. i measured my valve clearances just two days ago and put everything back together. First thing i started it up there was a hose from the top of the valve cover that wasnt plugged in so the bike kept dying at low rpm + gasping for air. So i fixed that, now its leaking coolant and didnt discover it until i made it to my work which is 35 miles away from home. Now i rode it back home hoping i wont run the coolant dry because of the leak and guess what? i made it home but it died on me. I checked the radiator and its bone dry and bike wont start now. What is the cause? do i need an engine rebuild now? i trashed my engine?
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Old December 10th, 2014, 09:54 AM   #17
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You sure the system was completely dry? This bikes can vac lock like crazy with air in the system. There is a drain bolt near the water pump. Take the radiator cap off and pull that bolt. Drain any and all coolant and start over. If you are a cheapskate , you can fill the system with plain tap water while you're testing for major engine damage.

Could you have some damage? Sure, check your sight glass for milky or foamy oil. If you overheated it bad, you just might need a head gasket/oil change and hopefully nothing else. If it's foamy, STOP running the engine and change the oil or you could f-up more of the internals.
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Old December 10th, 2014, 11:29 AM   #18
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You sure the system was completely dry? This bikes can vac lock like crazy with air in the system. There is a drain bolt near the water pump. Take the radiator cap off and pull that bolt. Drain any and all coolant and start over. If you are a cheapskate , you can fill the system with plain tap water while you're testing for major engine damage.

Could you have some damage? Sure, check your sight glass for milky or foamy oil. If you overheated it bad, you just might need a head gasket/oil change and hopefully nothing else. If it's foamy, STOP running the engine and change the oil or you could f-up more of the internals.
I refilled the radiator with new coolant already. I will drain the coolant system once i get back home. As for the engine oil, i will check that as well. I heard something sucking while i was riding back home yesterday. It was like that for a good 10 or so miles until i finally got off the freeway. Bike wont start as well but ill start from there. As for the no start it cranks it just doesnt want to crank to the point where it starts
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Old December 10th, 2014, 11:48 AM   #19
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Quote:
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I refilled the radiator with new coolant already. I will drain the coolant system once i get back home. As for the engine oil, i will check that as well. I heard something sucking while i was riding back home yesterday. It was like that for a good 10 or so miles until i finally got off the freeway. Bike wont start as well but ill start from there. As for the no start it cranks it just doesnt want to crank to the point where it starts
Did you try to restart it while it was hot or cold? It would be normal for an overheated engine to not start.

Start with oil check first, no sense in even turning on the key and going any further until that is ensured. Also, just topping off the radiator will only get you by. You really should bleed any remaining air out of the system. To do this, you will have to get the bike running long enough so the thermostat opens, then blip the throttle a few times. Just leave the cap off and refill as needed but keeping it full throughout this process makes life a bit easier.
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Old December 10th, 2014, 09:27 PM   #20
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Did you try to restart it while it was hot or cold? It would be normal for an overheated engine to not start.

Start with oil check first, no sense in even turning on the key and going any further until that is ensured. Also, just topping off the radiator will only get you by. You really should bleed any remaining air out of the system. To do this, you will have to get the bike running long enough so the thermostat opens, then blip the throttle a few times. Just leave the cap off and refill as needed but keeping it full throughout this process makes life a bit easier.
I have tried both. I attempted to restart it when i got close to home and i tried again today in the morning. Its not starting. It did start however for a moment when i attempted to push start it while walking home with the bike. It was only for a moment though then it died again. Oil level is good there is still oil in the motorcycle and no foam or milky looking oil in there as well.
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Old December 10th, 2014, 09:41 PM   #21
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Oil check - good
Coolant check - good
Pull a plug - what color? Is it wet from coolant or oil or gas?
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Old December 11th, 2014, 05:39 PM   #22
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....... i measured my valve clearances just two days ago and put everything back together...........
How far from specs were the valve's clearances?

Could you correct it?
If so, did the bike run better before stopping?

Did you finally drain the carbs?

Do you have an experienced friend that can give you a hand?
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Old December 12th, 2014, 11:04 PM   #23
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Okay so i think i finally figured out why it was leaking and not running right since i put it together. Turns out when i placed the valve cover back on the gasket didnt sit right and align properly with the valve cover. the gasket is sticking out to the left side of the bike. Im sure that is why coolant was spewing all over the place. Now whats the damage? coolant in my valves?
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