Helping a friend with a clutch plate problem!

[skilletmo]

Ok so a friend @KennethJay, bought a 2010 ninja 250 that runs perfect and looks good (needs some front fairings) but the only problem is that it makes a loud ass screeching noise from the engine. Im 99% sure its the clutch plates.

I read Purspeed's DIY and im pretty sure i know how to do it and will be changing it this weekend for him while im waiting for my vapor

All i need to know is what exactly he needs to buy without killing his pocket. Does he need the Plates,springs,oil, and oil filter? If im missing anything i would appreciate it if you told me and also whether i should get the "EBC" brand or try and find the OEM of the plates and springs?

Thanks!

[cuz]

The paper gasket it will rip trust me.

Measure the springs then you will know if you need to change them too.

[cuz]

I bought oem.

http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID...4/Group/Clutch

[cuz]

11009 is the gasket.


http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID...Engine_Cover(s)

[skilletmo]

Originally Posted by cuz

The paper gasket it will rip trust me.

Measure the springs then you will know if you need to change them too.

Lol you need to explain this. Ive never messed with the clutch plate so something more descriptive so i can understand will be highly appreciated

So what your saying is only change the plates if the springs look good measurement wise? and if so OEM is better then EBC? or does it not matter.

[cuz]

Clutch Spring Free Length Inspection •Measure the free length of the clutch springs [A].
If any spring is shorter than the service limit, it must be
replaced.
Clutch Spring Free Length
Standard: 38.5 mm (1.52 in.)
Service Limit: 36.8 mm (1.45 in.)


You can never go wrong w/oem.

You do have the service manual don't you?

[menikmati]

Originally Posted by skilletmo

Im 99% sure its the clutch plates.

How are you sure it's the clutch plates?

[skilletmo]

Originally Posted by menikmati

How are you sure it's the clutch plates?

Well maybe you can tell me what is is if not the clutch plate
Whenever I start his bike it makes a screatching noise in nuetral, whenever I put it in first and pull the clutch is it stops, then I release the clutch and slowly put throttle. It makes the noise again and then i start going and the noise stops. Its making the pipes almost red at the top and a really bad smell. That might be the paont he used on the pipes though (prev owner). Also its makin noise exactly were the clutch plates are located.

What do you think?

[menikmati]

Originally Posted by skilletmo

Its making the pipes almost red at the top and a really bad smell. That might be the paont he used on the pipes though (prev owner).

Wat.

I don't think it would hurt to change the clutch plates/discs and the aforementioned thread has a good walkthrough for it. I found OEM discs/plates off a low-mileage new gen on ebay for around $30. The most expensive part was the paper gasket ($15-20).

[subxero]

You will know more once you dig into it but if you are trying to save cash, that makes it take more time. As like someone pointed out, you will want to measure springs, plates if they are not obviously shot so you wont know what to order until it is apart. If money is non issue, just go ahead and order, all new springs, and plates and gasket.

I am rebuilding my clutch in my dirtbike this weekend. I tore it down last weekend and ordered what i needed and will hopefully have it running mint again this weekend.

good luck keep us posted on your progress.

[alex.s]

the original paper gasket always breaks.

always.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by skilletmo

Its making the pipes almost red at the top and a really bad smell.

Uhhhh, that doesn't sound like clutch to me.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by skilletmo

.....Its making the pipes almost red at the top and a really bad smell. That might be the paint he used on the pipes though (prev owner). Also its makin noise exactly were the clutch plates are located.

What do you think?

What kind of paint was it? (no paint should make the pipes red hot, this is a problem. It's either really lean or idling to high and too long)
What other mods are done to this bike?
Is the clutch lever adjusted properly?
What is the condition of the oil?

Other stuff to consider

Abnormal Drive Train Noise:

Clutch noise:
Weak or damaged damper
Clutch housing/friction plate clearance excessive
Clutch housing gear worn


Transmission noise:
Bearings worn
Transmission gears worn or chipped
Metal chips jammed in gear teeth
Engine oil insufficient

[skilletmo]

Ok ill take everything apart tomorrow and see what we are looking at, do the the other symptoms other then the pipes turning red at the top only were its connected, sound like a clutch plate problem?

I feel like once i replace that, oil, and plugs then the problem will go away unless its alot more serious then i thought. The prev owner said thats what it was and if he is lying i will definitely be returning it or asking for some money back for repairs. I dont want my friend to feel like he is at loss after i convinced him to get one!

I will be posting updates, pics, and maybe a video so yall can hear how it sounds. Hopefully you guys can be patient with my beginner skills and help me through this

[skilletmo]

If i got this then all i would need is the paper gasket and springs? Thats of course if lets say the springs are bad when i check them. With that item i feel like it will be much easier since i would just have to remove it and replace it with a whole new set already put on. What do you guys think?

Edit: oops nvm so the springs are already there.... so if i got this all i would need is the paper gasket?!

2nd Edit: the clutch on ebay that im showing only has 2k miles on it he said.

[skilletmo]

This is the gasket i will need correct?11009-1872

[skilletmo]

Any input on wether i should go ahead and tell him to get those pieces?

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by skilletmo

Any input on wether i should go ahead and tell him to get those pieces?

I wouldn't order anything yet.

List of priorities:

1) Proceed with surgery.

2) Take many good pictures.

3) Post them here and wait....

[skilletmo]

Okay! Ill post some up later today!

[Havok]

Why are you buying used. Ebc makes clutch pads. Get springs and pads for like 50 bucks if you look around. Takes about and hour if that.

The pipes being red from paint just get a new exhaust and dont paint them or see if you can get the paint off the ones on it. Exhaust painting is dumb anyway

[KennethJay]

So we got all the bolts out and we removed the clutched cable.
When we were ready to take the engine case out, we saw a greyy-ish goo sealent and red marks around it. Which I think might be loctite...
Im uploading pictures now. Can you comfirm if this is suppose to be on there or the previous dumbass owner put this himself.
If its not suppose to be on there. Can someone explain to me how am I suppose to take this off.
@Motofool
I need your intelligence!

[KennethJay]

Here are the pictures.
This is the grey gooy stuff around the case.
I peel'd some off.

[KennethJay]

Derp

[KennethJay]

:/

[KennethJay]

Doing this from my phone. Sooooo that's why it's one by one.

[KennethJay]

:/

[DaBlue1]

Looks like somebody done popped your engine's cherry!

Did the previous owner stunt this bike? That may explain the early demise of the clutch.

[KennethJay]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Looks like somebody done popped your engine's cherry!

Did the previous owner stunt this bike? That may explain the early demise of the clutch.

Thats what Im thinking, since the clutch plate broke so early.
So this sealent is not suppose to be on there right?
Do you know if there is any way to take it off / out?

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by KennethJay

..Do you know if there is any way to take it off / out?

If it's soft, peel it. It it's hard, sand or scrape it (gently of course).

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by KennethJay

.....If its not suppose to be on there. Can someone explain to me how am I suppose to take this off.

That is some kind of sealant either to replace the paper gasket or to fill up some damage to the flat edge of the aluminum cover.

Don't worry much about removing it now, you will have plenty of time while the new parts arrive

I would try some solvent like acetone.
If it is hard, scrapping that staff off may hurt the matching surfaces' flatness.

If the exterior looks like that, I don't want to see the interior

[skilletmo]

Originally Posted by Motofool

That is some kind of sealant either to replace the paper gasket or to fill up some damage to the flat edge of the aluminum cover.

Don't worry much about removing it now, you will have plenty of time while the new parts arrive

I would try some solvent like acetone.
If it is hard, scrapping that staff off may hurt the matching surfaces' flatness.

If the exterior looks like that, I don't want to see the interior

Ok so i just got home, so ya, you see what my problem is now. I was thinking the same, he probably destroyed the clutch set too... So i should go ahead and order those parts as you said, correct?

If so i will tell him to order it tonight, the gasket and the whole clutch set. Ill get the oil and filter from a local shop.

Ill tell him to soak it with adhesive remover and tomorrow we will start to try opening it with scraping it off and using a hammer and a flat head if that is a good idea...

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by skilletmo

... So i should go ahead and order those parts as you said, correct?

............and tomorrow we will start to try opening it with scraping it off and using a hammer and a flat head if that is a good idea...

No, no; I meant pics from internals:

Originally Posted by Motofool

I wouldn't order anything yet.

List of priorities:

1) Proceed with surgery.

2) Take many good pictures.

3) Post them here and wait....

No, no, don't use a screwdriver, that will cause damage to the sealing surfaces.
In order to contain the oil, the matching lips of the crankcase and cover must be perfectly flat and fine finished.
Aluminum is very soft and any scrapper made of steel would damage those surfaces.

Use gentle and firm taps from a rubber hammer on the cover.
Use a tool made of plastic or wood for scrapping that gunk.

.......then take more pictures....

Kudos to you for helping your friend a Sunday !!!

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by Motofool

That is some kind of sealant either to replace the paper gasket or to fill up some damage to the flat edge of the aluminum cover.

Don't worry much about removing it now, you will have plenty of time while the new parts arrive

I would try some solvent like acetone.
If it is hard, scrapping that staff off may hurt the matching surfaces' flatness.

If the exterior looks like that, I don't want to see the interior

My guess its Red RTV High Temp Sealant just by the way it is clumped up. I just can't see anyone using that much red loctite on something like that. Then again I've seen some weird stuff.

Nail polish remover works pretty good too, it's mostly acetone. A plastic scraper helps once the stuff is soft. From the looks of one of the pics, it looks like someone already took a screwdriver or something to the edge of the cover. Hopefully the mating surfaces are smooth.

[Racer x]

To get the red stuff off I use scotch brights razor blades and break clean from an auto parts store. Be careful with the hammer and flat blade.

[skilletmo]

Ok, just finished practice, going to work, and after that im stopping buy to complete the surgery. I will update it tonight!

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by skilletmo

............and after that im stopping buy to complete the surgery. I will update it tonight!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Np-oYpB_Ov...le-surgery.jpg

[KennethJay]

Originally Posted by Motofool

No, no; I meant pics from internals:



No, no, don't use a screwdriver, that will cause damage to the sealing surfaces.
In order to contain the oil, the matching lips of the crankcase and cover must be perfectly flat and fine finished.
Aluminum is very soft and any scrapper made of steel would damage those surfaces.

Use gentle and firm taps from a rubber hammer on the cover.
Use a tool made of plastic or wood for scrapping that gunk.

.......then take more pictures....

Kudos to you for helping your friend a Sunday !!!

How do I attack this.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by KennethJay

How do I attack this.

If your trying to clean the red stuff, simply using a rag with the nail polish remover will work. Be careful as it may remove a little paint.

If you are trying to remove the cover and it's stuck, a razor blade or box cutter knife may work in cutting thru the sealant. A light tap with a rubber mallet should do the trick too. Clean all the sealant off with the nail polish remover.

[KennethJay]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

If your trying to clean the red stuff, simply using a rag with the nail polish remover will work. Be careful as it may remove a little paint.

If you are trying to remove the cover and it's stuck, a razor blade or box cutter knife may work in cutting thru the sealant. A light tap with a rubber mallet should do the trick too. Clean all the sealant off with the nail polish remover.

I don't know if you can see this or not. But there is literally no space for anything to get through with. Not even a razor

[skilletmo]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

If your trying to clean the red stuff, simply using a rag with the nail polish remover will work. Be careful as it may remove a little paint.

If you are trying to remove the cover and it's stuck, a razor blade or box cutter knife may work in cutting thru the sealant. A light tap with a rubber mallet should do the trick too. Clean all the sealant off with the nail polish remover.

Ill be there in an hour!