Individual Jets?

Criscone24 · March 18th, 2012, 05:55 PM

09 250

-PLM? full exhaust (no cat)
-K&N pod filter, airbox removed
-Kleen air removed

Now im sure this has all been covered, ive been searching for days with mixed results. I just found a post on here that mentions JetsRus? This is my fiances bike, she doesnt abuse it let alone i dont think its ever been past 5k rpms besides when i take it out to make sure everything is still running good.

So my question is, about jetkits. Ive been looking all over for a good jetkit. The only one i can find is DynoJet 'stage 2' on ebay. Can i just buy the parts i need seperately? I am not to familar with carbs as all my bikes are fuel injected so this is new to me. I just want a good runing bike for her, thats still reliable as it was stock. She just wanted a little more 'umph' so we picked up all these parts and i just installed them. Now just need jets id assume, or can i get away with just using washers?

Buffalony · March 18th, 2012, 06:03 PM

You should at least shim the needles with a couple washers for that set up. Not sure about the individual rejet kits, but Im sure someone else who is will chime in here soon. Check the wiki section to see if there is any useful info in there.

Zaydoc · March 18th, 2012, 06:14 PM

You can buy just the jet and JetRUs.com is great I just got mine from them and shipping was fast. As for the needles you can either search for clip style with the taper you need or just buy a kit. http://www.dynojet.com/jetkits/motorcycle/kawasaki.aspx or http://www.factorypro.com/ are both good needle kits but FactoryPro is your better bet.
Or you can just shim you factory needles and buy the mains and pilot jets you might need.

Skippii · March 18th, 2012, 06:19 PM

Any kawasaki (or honda/yamaha/suzuki) dealership will sell you the individual jets for $2.50 each.

If your fiance wants to get more performance out of the bike, though, she'll have a lot more success if she learns to rev it higher than 5,000.

Criscone24 · March 18th, 2012, 06:41 PM

she doesnt go fast, doesnt break the speed limit and defiently doesnt redline. We got the bike so she could get off the back of mine..i mean to enjoy riding

So all she does is bomb around town, she could care a less about performance. She just wanted a louder bike for safety reasons(she didnt like how you cant hear the bike going down the road, and would rather people hear her before its to late), so i got the parts needed to do so.

So potentially i could just put washers in (for now) and see how it runs? I thought this wasnt even an option once you removed the airbox?

If a jetkit is the best way to go than ill do that. Just cant see spending another 100 on the bike when it'll never get used to its potential. That factorypro site is very confusing and im not sure what to buy if i was to.

Criscone24 · March 18th, 2012, 06:49 PM

I did just buy an SSR blockoff plate, just for the fact i hate 'plugging' holes when they sell something to void it all together. I run them on all my bikes and like them a lot.

EDIT: Like i said i know very little about carbs, so main/pilots etc is all another language. ive read up on how to swap the main, drop the bowl and its right there. Just not 100% sure on what sizes, what else should be replaced if any? I was hopeing to just be able to put washers on the needles? and call it a day, maybe swap out a main jet?

choneofakind · March 18th, 2012, 06:53 PM

if you removed the airbox, you cannot get away with just raising the needles by shimming. You need to either a) buy a jet kit or b) buy jets from jetsrus or a stealership and then raise the needles by shimming.

If you take route A, you'll need the jet kit that is intended for a bike with a removed airbox

If you take route B, you'll need 108, 110, and 112 main jets to test, and 5 washers per needle to test.

A lean bike is bad. Valves overheat, which means they can be damaged, not to mention, it will run like garbage. Take the afternoon, and rejet. It's pretty quick and easy without the airbox.

Zaydoc · March 18th, 2012, 08:25 PM

Just a question but if all she does is putt around on it then why spend all the money to change things that only give a few hp. Don't get me wrong I love to tinker with stuff but it seems to me that life would have be easier to have just left it stock for her. But to each his/her own.

Buffalony · March 18th, 2012, 09:12 PM

She wanted more attitude in the bike. Didnt want it to run quieter than a lawnmower Im guessing.

MikeBudd · March 19th, 2012, 01:22 AM

If you are going to buy a jet kit buy factory pro (scroll down on my post to see how to get where you want to go on the site)... I just find they are better than DJ

If you are going to just buy jets and shim, do exactly what Chris said. Its pretty easy, but you will end up having to do more work than you would have to do with a jet kit IMHO.

RE: I can't navigate the factory pro website.

Factory pro is pretty easy.

1. Go to this link: http://www.factorypro.com/prod_pages/prodk04.html

2. Scroll down past the video where you see the blue outlines. Look on the left side. You will see the the stage one kit highlighted in blue. do not buy this

3. Scroll a bit further and right under the stage one, you will see the stage three or what they say is the "config 30" highlighted in red. Buy the one on the far left that comes without the extra air filters.

Criscone24 · March 19th, 2012, 02:55 AM

Thanks! I think for right now we may just go with swapping main jets and putting washers on the needles. If it gives me issues I'll jet it.

Now what's so much different with a jet kit? I still see people saying there using washers with a jetkit, that's what kind of pushes me away from it.

choneofakind · March 19th, 2012, 08:15 AM

A jet kit from DynoJet or Factory Pro have custom made needles that deliver fuel differently based on the height of the slide/needle combo.

This is because they have a different shape than the oem needles.

The jetkit needles also have clips so that they can he easily adjusted up or down to make the mix more rich or more lean.

That is essentially what you're doing when you use washers on the oem needles; adjusting the needle height.
Higher = more fuel in mid range.
Lower = less fuel in mid range.

Criscone24 · March 19th, 2012, 12:28 PM

So I talked to a guy at work and he says:

0-1/4 throttle is based on Pilot jet
1/4-3/4 is based on needle
3/4-WOT is based on main jet

And that it's based off throttle position, not engine RPM (which I thought). So basically only one of these items are working at a time, correct?

choneofakind · March 19th, 2012, 12:44 PM

There is overlap between each part of the system. For example, during a smooth roll-on from 1/2 throttle to WOT, there should be a smooth transition from needles to mains, and there will be some over lap.

Yes your friend is correct about throttle positions being in control of which part of the carbs are in control. But there is also overlap. RPM's are just a good tool to use to diagnosing carb issues. For example, you want to select a main jet based on WOT performance at the top end of the rpm's because that is where your main jet will have to deliver the most fuel, so WOT at the top of the rpms is where to test it. kkim has a good graph that shows which part of the carbs are in control for which throttle openings, but idk where that is at the moment. Your friend's numbers are pretty general, but not bad. I would say main jets are for 90%-100% throttle opening, and that hazy area from about 75%-90% is where the overlap from needles to main jets is.

You should read through FP's tuning guidelines

Criscone24 · March 19th, 2012, 12:52 PM

incase i havnt said so..thanks, youve all been a big help!

I just pulled the carb caps off, and its quite simple. I pulled the whole diaphram out to see what is what. So basically im just going to start with 3 washers on the needle. Inbetween the black part and the needle, which is just raising the needle farther away from whatever it sits into. Seems easy, i was dreading taking the caps off but now that ive seen whats in there its cake!

So now when the jets come in, im going to start with the 110's/3 washer combo. Seems that everyone likes the 110 area so we shall see. As for installing the main jet it seems i just pull the bowl off and its right there. I may just pull the carbs off so its easier to work on, dont i have to drill out the caps to get to the idle mixture screws? (which im guessing is the pilots?)

choneofakind · March 19th, 2012, 01:39 PM

That *should* get you pretty close. You're still going to have to test ride it and test every part of the throttle openings to see if you're happy with it.

Pull the plugs on the mix screws. You'll need to back them out eventually. That's simple though, and that gets done when the bike is warm. For now, just set them to 2.5 turns and see how it feels when you blip it after it's warm.

when you flip the carb upside down and take off the bowls, there will be 2 jets in there. The one right smack in the middle (can't miss it

) with the slot in the head is the main jet. It will be labeled as a 105. The pilot is down in a tube, but you'll only need to change that if you need to back the mix screws out more than 3.5 turns or so.

for reference: here's some pictures of the carbs opened up

Skippii · March 19th, 2012, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Criscone24

And that it's based off throttle position, not engine RPM (which I thought). So basically only one of these items are working at a time, correct?

Nope.

As far as RPM vs Throttle...it's throttle posistion for CV (Constant Velocity) or CVK carbs, which we have on Ninjas. Not true for all carbs.

choneofakind · March 19th, 2012, 03:03 PM

Thanks Skippii that's exactly the graph I was talking about before.

Criscone24 · March 19th, 2012, 05:52 PM

awesome pictures and graph. I just pulled the main jets out. Im going to pick up some washers and jets tmrw. Quick question, im trying to narrow down 2 lines on my carbs. I know one is fuel coming in, however there is a small one (that went to kleenair box 'tee') and another larger one. Im lost as to where they go/which one can be removed? I know on the tank i had 3 lines, and i know 1 is a vent that goes to bottom of bike (on side of tank) and other is fuel delivery. Whats the other one?

EDIT: Im trying to remove as much as possible off the bike. Anything not needed is GONE

Criscone24 · March 22nd, 2012, 02:48 AM

So I got my SSR blockoff plate on, both mixture screws 2.5 out, 110 jets in/carbs installed and now just trying to find a place with 3mm washers. I bought 4MM thinking they'd work but no go. Hopeing to have this up and running today to start tuning.

Criscone24 · March 22nd, 2012, 02:28 PM

All together and running! 110 jets, 3 washers each needle, mixture screws at 2.5. (full exhaust, k&n pod filter, breather filter, SSR block off plate for kleen air being removed).

Runs like a champ, only issue was a couple times I clicked into 1st it died but I bumped idle up half turn on black idle knob to bring it to roughly 1500 and it seems fine. What should my idle be at? So far very happy with it and it's a big noticeable difference in power!

March 18th, 2012, 05:55 PM	#1
Criscone24 ninjette.org newbie Name: AJ Location: Troy, NY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki 250R Posts: 9	Individual Jets? 09 250 -PLM? full exhaust (no cat) -K&N pod filter, airbox removed -Kleen air removed Now im sure this has all been covered, ive been searching for days with mixed results. I just found a post on here that mentions JetsRus? This is my fiances bike, she doesnt abuse it let alone i dont think its ever been past 5k rpms besides when i take it out to make sure everything is still running good. So my question is, about jetkits. Ive been looking all over for a good jetkit. The only one i can find is DynoJet 'stage 2' on ebay. Can i just buy the parts i need seperately? I am not to familar with carbs as all my bikes are fuel injected so this is new to me. I just want a good runing bike for her, thats still reliable as it was stock. She just wanted a little more 'umph' so we picked up all these parts and i just installed them. Now just need jets id assume, or can i get away with just using washers?

March 18th, 2012, 06:03 PM	#2
Buffalony ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Joe Location: Buffalo NY Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250 "Wasabi", 82 Yamaha xj650j Posts: A lot.	You should at least shim the needles with a couple washers for that set up. Not sure about the individual rejet kits, but Im sure someone else who is will chime in here soon. Check the wiki section to see if there is any useful info in there. __________________________________________________

March 18th, 2012, 06:19 PM	#4
Skippii Milkshake Drinker Name: Skippii Location: Richmond, Va Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Orange DRZ400-S, 2005 Ninja 250 & Custom Thundercunt Dirt Chopper Posts: A lot.	Any kawasaki (or honda/yamaha/suzuki) dealership will sell you the individual jets for $2.50 each. If your fiance wants to get more performance out of the bike, though, she'll have a lot more success if she learns to rev it higher than 5,000. __________________________________________________ "What a sweetheart."- ninja_sleeper to me

March 18th, 2012, 09:12 PM	#9
Buffalony ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Joe Location: Buffalo NY Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250 "Wasabi", 82 Yamaha xj650j Posts: A lot.	She wanted more attitude in the bike. Didnt want it to run quieter than a lawnmower Im guessing. __________________________________________________

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March 18th, 2012, 06:14 PM	#3
Zaydoc ninjette.org member Name: Jason Location: Fort Drum, NY Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250R Posts: 46	You can buy just the jet and JetRUs.com is great I just got mine from them and shipping was fast. As for the needles you can either search for clip style with the taper you need or just buy a kit. http://www.dynojet.com/jetkits/motorcycle/kawasaki.aspx or http://www.factorypro.com/ are both good needle kits but FactoryPro is your better bet. Or you can just shim you factory needles and buy the mains and pilot jets you might need.

March 18th, 2012, 06:41 PM	#5
Criscone24 ninjette.org newbie Name: AJ Location: Troy, NY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki 250R Posts: 9	she doesnt go fast, doesnt break the speed limit and defiently doesnt redline. We got the bike so she could get off the back of mine..i mean to enjoy riding So all she does is bomb around town, she could care a less about performance. She just wanted a louder bike for safety reasons(she didnt like how you cant hear the bike going down the road, and would rather people hear her before its to late), so i got the parts needed to do so. So potentially i could just put washers in (for now) and see how it runs? I thought this wasnt even an option once you removed the airbox? If a jetkit is the best way to go than ill do that. Just cant see spending another 100 on the bike when it'll never get used to its potential. That factorypro site is very confusing and im not sure what to buy if i was to.

March 18th, 2012, 06:49 PM	#6
Criscone24 ninjette.org newbie Name: AJ Location: Troy, NY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki 250R Posts: 9	I did just buy an SSR blockoff plate, just for the fact i hate 'plugging' holes when they sell something to void it all together. I run them on all my bikes and like them a lot. EDIT: Like i said i know very little about carbs, so main/pilots etc is all another language. ive read up on how to swap the main, drop the bowl and its right there. Just not 100% sure on what sizes, what else should be replaced if any? I was hopeing to just be able to put washers on the needles? and call it a day, maybe swap out a main jet?

March 18th, 2012, 06:53 PM	#7
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	if you removed the airbox, you cannot get away with just raising the needles by shimming. You need to either a) buy a jet kit or b) buy jets from jetsrus or a stealership and then raise the needles by shimming. If you take route A, you'll need the jet kit that is intended for a bike with a removed airbox If you take route B, you'll need 108, 110, and 112 main jets to test, and 5 washers per needle to test. A lean bike is bad. Valves overheat, which means they can be damaged, not to mention, it will run like garbage. Take the afternoon, and rejet. It's pretty quick and easy without the airbox.

March 18th, 2012, 08:25 PM	#8
Zaydoc ninjette.org member Name: Jason Location: Fort Drum, NY Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250R Posts: 46	Just a question but if all she does is putt around on it then why spend all the money to change things that only give a few hp. Don't get me wrong I love to tinker with stuff but it seems to me that life would have be easier to have just left it stock for her. But to each his/her own.

March 19th, 2012, 01:22 AM	#10
MikeBudd ninjette.org guru Name: Mike Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): RED 2010 Ninja 250r Posts: 304	If you are going to buy a jet kit buy factory pro (scroll down on my post to see how to get where you want to go on the site)... I just find they are better than DJ If you are going to just buy jets and shim, do exactly what Chris said. Its pretty easy, but you will end up having to do more work than you would have to do with a jet kit IMHO. RE: I can't navigate the factory pro website. Factory pro is pretty easy. 1. Go to this link: http://www.factorypro.com/prod_pages/prodk04.html 2. Scroll down past the video where you see the blue outlines. Look on the left side. You will see the the stage one kit highlighted in blue. do not buy this 3. Scroll a bit further and right under the stage one, you will see the stage three or what they say is the "config 30" highlighted in red. Buy the one on the far left that comes without the extra air filters.

March 19th, 2012, 02:55 AM	#11
Criscone24 ninjette.org newbie Name: AJ Location: Troy, NY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki 250R Posts: 9	Thanks! I think for right now we may just go with swapping main jets and putting washers on the needles. If it gives me issues I'll jet it. Now what's so much different with a jet kit? I still see people saying there using washers with a jetkit, that's what kind of pushes me away from it.

March 19th, 2012, 08:15 AM	#12
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	A jet kit from DynoJet or Factory Pro have custom made needles that deliver fuel differently based on the height of the slide/needle combo. This is because they have a different shape than the oem needles. The jetkit needles also have clips so that they can he easily adjusted up or down to make the mix more rich or more lean. That is essentially what you're doing when you use washers on the oem needles; adjusting the needle height. Higher = more fuel in mid range. Lower = less fuel in mid range.

March 19th, 2012, 12:28 PM	#13
Criscone24 ninjette.org newbie Name: AJ Location: Troy, NY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki 250R Posts: 9	So I talked to a guy at work and he says: 0-1/4 throttle is based on Pilot jet 1/4-3/4 is based on needle 3/4-WOT is based on main jet And that it's based off throttle position, not engine RPM (which I thought). So basically only one of these items are working at a time, correct?

March 19th, 2012, 12:44 PM	#14
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	There is overlap between each part of the system. For example, during a smooth roll-on from 1/2 throttle to WOT, there should be a smooth transition from needles to mains, and there will be some over lap. Yes your friend is correct about throttle positions being in control of which part of the carbs are in control. But there is also overlap. RPM's are just a good tool to use to diagnosing carb issues. For example, you want to select a main jet based on WOT performance at the top end of the rpm's because that is where your main jet will have to deliver the most fuel, so WOT at the top of the rpms is where to test it. kkim has a good graph that shows which part of the carbs are in control for which throttle openings, but idk where that is at the moment. Your friend's numbers are pretty general, but not bad. I would say main jets are for 90%-100% throttle opening, and that hazy area from about 75%-90% is where the overlap from needles to main jets is. You should read through FP's tuning guidelines

March 19th, 2012, 12:52 PM	#15
Criscone24 ninjette.org newbie Name: AJ Location: Troy, NY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki 250R Posts: 9	incase i havnt said so..thanks, youve all been a big help! I just pulled the carb caps off, and its quite simple. I pulled the whole diaphram out to see what is what. So basically im just going to start with 3 washers on the needle. Inbetween the black part and the needle, which is just raising the needle farther away from whatever it sits into. Seems easy, i was dreading taking the caps off but now that ive seen whats in there its cake! So now when the jets come in, im going to start with the 110's/3 washer combo. Seems that everyone likes the 110 area so we shall see. As for installing the main jet it seems i just pull the bowl off and its right there. I may just pull the carbs off so its easier to work on, dont i have to drill out the caps to get to the idle mixture screws? (which im guessing is the pilots?)

March 19th, 2012, 01:39 PM	#16
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	That should get you pretty close. You're still going to have to test ride it and test every part of the throttle openings to see if you're happy with it. Pull the plugs on the mix screws. You'll need to back them out eventually. That's simple though, and that gets done when the bike is warm. For now, just set them to 2.5 turns and see how it feels when you blip it after it's warm. when you flip the carb upside down and take off the bowls, there will be 2 jets in there. The one right smack in the middle (can't miss it ) with the slot in the head is the main jet. It will be labeled as a 105. The pilot is down in a tube, but you'll only need to change that if you need to back the mix screws out more than 3.5 turns or so. for reference: here's some pictures of the carbs opened up

March 19th, 2012, 03:03 PM	#18
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	Thanks Skippii that's exactly the graph I was talking about before.

March 19th, 2012, 05:52 PM	#19
Criscone24 ninjette.org newbie Name: AJ Location: Troy, NY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki 250R Posts: 9	awesome pictures and graph. I just pulled the main jets out. Im going to pick up some washers and jets tmrw. Quick question, im trying to narrow down 2 lines on my carbs. I know one is fuel coming in, however there is a small one (that went to kleenair box 'tee') and another larger one. Im lost as to where they go/which one can be removed? I know on the tank i had 3 lines, and i know 1 is a vent that goes to bottom of bike (on side of tank) and other is fuel delivery. Whats the other one? EDIT: Im trying to remove as much as possible off the bike. Anything not needed is GONE

March 22nd, 2012, 02:48 AM	#20
Criscone24 ninjette.org newbie Name: AJ Location: Troy, NY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki 250R Posts: 9	So I got my SSR blockoff plate on, both mixture screws 2.5 out, 110 jets in/carbs installed and now just trying to find a place with 3mm washers. I bought 4MM thinking they'd work but no go. Hopeing to have this up and running today to start tuning.

March 22nd, 2012, 02:28 PM	#21
Criscone24 ninjette.org newbie Name: AJ Location: Troy, NY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki 250R Posts: 9	All together and running! 110 jets, 3 washers each needle, mixture screws at 2.5. (full exhaust, k&n pod filter, breather filter, SSR block off plate for kleen air being removed). Runs like a champ, only issue was a couple times I clicked into 1st it died but I bumped idle up half turn on black idle knob to bring it to roughly 1500 and it seems fine. What should my idle be at? So far very happy with it and it's a big noticeable difference in power!