Should I wait?

[burningscooter]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Uhh, maybe he should stick to 2 cylinders don't ya think?

I stand by what I said, which is a big IF, on whether or not he finds a good price on a 250 or IF the prices start bleeding in to eachother.

[s1akr]

No, used prices between 250r and 650 not blurring yet, but new OTD price is almost there.

[s1akr]

'08 model with only 1800 miles on it. Fairing damage left side, blue (not the color I was looking for) listed for $3200. Gonna try and bargain. Good deal? What do u guys think?

[massacremasses]

how bad is the damage? shoot up some pics, I can tell you what youll be spending.

[Reswob]

Originally Posted by Mulholland

I've had major issues with looking at 250r's new and dealers wanting to charge north of $5500 OTD. I had a dealer litteraly scoff and laugh in my face when I told him I would do $4700 cash in hand out the door.

I just pulled out my bill of sale. Minus tax, title, and registration, which could vary wildly by state, my dealer charged my $245 in bogus dealer fees. And I only paid that much because they were literally selling them faster than they could get them in the showroom.

If they have bikes sitting on the floor, you shouldn't pay much more (if anything) than MSRP, tax, and title/reg/etc. But I guess they have enough suckers willing to pay more than $1,000 in BS fees that they can keep on charging them.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Reswob

If they have bikes sitting on the floor, you shouldn't pay much more (if anything) than MSRP, tax, and title/reg/etc. But I guess they have enough suckers willing to pay more than $1,000 in BS fees that they can keep on charging them.

It's supply and demand. Think of it almost like a bidding war. The dealer has a low stock highly desirable item. That drives the price up. If its the last bike on the floor and one guy will buy it for $4500 OTD, well another guy will come around who doesn't want to wait for another one, so he will pay $4700 and so on. It's not that some sucker is going to pay more, its that the bike is actually worth more.

[DevinWolfe]

With it being prime riding season in most states dealers will simply wait for the person that *will* pay those fees, because the next guy through he door just might.

If you were buying in the fall/winter you would have a little more leverage on dealers I would think, but both of my bike purchases were from private sellers.

I still recommend used just to avoid the whole dealership expereince. Nevermind the chance of dropping it, it's still worth it to avoid them unless you just really want a brand new bike.


Edit: Yeah, what Jiggles said. Drugs don't slow you down enough for me to reply.

[Reswob]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

It's supply and demand. Think of it almost like a bidding war. The dealer has a low stock highly desirable item. That drives the price up. If its the last bike on the floor and one guy will buy it for $4500 OTD, well another guy will come around who doesn't want to wait for another one, so he will pay $4700 and so on. It's not that some sucker is going to pay more, its that the bike is actually worth more.

No. Summer 2008 was the peak of the 'supply-vs-demand' argument. Dealers had pre-sold ALL their allotted 250's before they even got off the boat from Thailand. And they were still only charging their normal BS markups and fees.

Now you have so much supply that bikes are sitting in showroom floors (my very small dealer has 3 or 4 250's, vs 2 ZX-10's and 1 ZX-6), obviously not enough demand for them to all be sold, and you have dealers charging thousands over MSRP. Because there are enough suckers to buy them at that price that the dealer can sell less and make the same profit.

[Jiggles]

Again, the price of the bike has increased. The market sets the price, not the dealer. You may think these people are suckers, but they have bikes, and their bikes will hold their value.

[massacremasses]

OP should just stop waiting and drive up and pick mine up.

But seriously if you are wanting a "deal" now is not the time. like Sean said, wait until AT LEAST fall...

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

But seriously if you are wanting a "deal" now is not the time. like Sean said, wait until AT LEAST fall...

I didn't say that you dumbass! Learn to read moron!

[massacremasses]

Oh, Devin said that...

Ok well he is right.... Kind of. although you live in Socal, so there arent really seasons...

[Jiggles]

I live in the bay area not socal, get your **** together son, you are falling apart!

[massacremasses]

I KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE SEAN THAT LAST PART WAS DIRECTED TOWARDS THE OP WHO LIVES IN SOCAL.

I am coming to your house to slap you with my wiener @Jiggles

[Jiggles]

Oh yeah!? Well once my dick is back up to operating size I'm gna slap you with it!

[akshay11]

Originally Posted by s1akr

The dealers here are asking $895 x 2, freight and assembly I think. So total with the $4199 msrp come out to around $5998 if I remember correctly. Plus tax and license it's going to be close to $7000. I'm sure. Can talk them down tho, and have them throw in some gear which I need a whole set of.

Yeah ur right, I'm going used all the way. I'll start shopping for gear while I wait for a good deal to come along.

That's bullshit don't do it. I got the 2012 Ninja 650 for $7300 OTD which included all fees, title, storage, AND delivery to my house which was 1.5hrs away from the dealership. I know I got a super good deal but $300 diff between a new 250 and 650 isn't right. Are all dealers in cali like that? Ik @Jiggles got his 650 for like 7900.. but by your calculations your dealer would charge something like 10k for it.

PS see if theres a costco near you. The prearranged pricing you get should get you a better deal. Not sure sure if the 250 is a part of the program but the dealer here said if I wanted the 250 he'd give me a good deal + write up a costco sale so I would get the $250 costco gift card.

[Mulholland]

Originally Posted by Reswob

No. Summer 2008 was the peak of the 'supply-vs-demand' argument. Dealers had pre-sold ALL their allotted 250's before they even got off the boat from Thailand. And they were still only charging their normal BS markups and fees.

Now you have so much supply that bikes are sitting in showroom floors (my very small dealer has 3 or 4 250's, vs 2 ZX-10's and 1 ZX-6), obviously not enough demand for them to all be sold, and you have dealers charging thousands over MSRP. Because there are enough suckers to buy them at that price that the dealer can sell less and make the same profit.

Yeah... bikes aren't "flying off showroom floors" I was literally quoting prices I was given on 09/10 models that were brand new sitting in showrooms, in april of 2011. Not special editions or anything either... just regular plain ass black 250r's... I was like "You're shitting me right, that bikes is over a year old" - "Yeah but it's new..." - "Yeah but even new MSRP is $4k, I'm not paying you more that $4700 out the door" - "Well good luck finding a dealer that will sell you one at that price, because that's $500 less than we will let one go for hahaha"


Seriously. I wanted to curb stomp some teeth out of the shiesty bastards.

But I still have no 250r... sadly for the dealer, they are the closest to me, and will never get business from me or anyone I know after that exchange, and by this time I would probably have been adding another 250r beside the one I was going to get then, or possible a 650. We all lose by them being assbags *shrug* I'm okay with someone making a fair buck off me, I understand... but I'm not getting ripped off on last years model because you aren't moving bikes and have to make every comission count, get your $1k+ off a guy buying a supersport...


also, to Akshay's comment above mine: The funniest part of the bullshit they pull, is if you want the 250r, which is supposed to be the cheapest entry level sportbike, they want to mark it up to almost $6k, but if you want a 650 or a supersport, they will offer you every discount possible and gouge the pricing and throw in all the bells and whistles, because they have wider profit margins and don't move them as often apparently. It's completely bassackwards. They should be selling 250r's like hotcakes, making up for their low markup/profit margin, and earning repeat and word of mouth business. Instead they drive away new riders/new business and screw themselves. It's really poor business.

[massacremasses]

buy used seriously... thats what we keep saying. Listen to us..


Some dude told me that I was crazy for asking 4k for mine because thats what they go for new. I lol'd and sent him back an email with how much all me "crappy" mods cost. Plus informing the asshat that he lives in CA, and will not be getting a new 250 from a dealer for less than $5500 if that. So then if he wants to spend another 600ish to get it to look like mine then he will be over 6k... and he could have had mine for around 4... with only 4k miles on it.. still no major service for another 8000 miles..

I should have just spammed his email, but im to nice for that.

[Mulholland]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

buy used seriously... thats what we keep saying. Listen to us..


Some dude told me that I was crazy for asking 4k for mine because thats what they go for new. I lol'd and sent him back an email with how much all me "crappy" mods cost. Plus informing the asshat that he lives in CA, and will not be getting a new 250 from a dealer for less than $5500 if that. So then if he wants to spend another 600ish to get it to look like mine then he will be over 6k... and he could have had mine for around 4... with only 4k miles on it.. still no major service for another 8000 miles..

I should have just spammed his email, but im to nice for that.

Used 250r, $3-4k... used 650 of same year/conditon/mileage... $3.5-4k... same scenario, without the dealer. As you just mentioned, the cost of new 250r's keeps the cost of used 250r's just as high.

Ironically, the cheapest 250r's I have seen in the past year have been people financing the bike, who have a lean on it from the dealer still and don't hold the title, and want to sell it for the $2800+ they owe on it to get out of it lol

[massacremasses]

honestly Id let mine go for a little cheaper than 4k but id just keep that to ninjette.

I think $3800 (which is literally the lowest Id go even for ninjette) for my bike is DAMN good.

[Mulholland]

Don't get me wrong, I'd drop the change on a 2011 SE with a slip on I like, or other mods worth cash that I like for $4k+, but for a road rashed, multiple times down, average miles 4yr old ninja... kiss my ass I'm giving you $3k+ rofl

[s1akr]

Wtf how da hell do I attack a pic from my iPad? Grrr

[Mulholland]

Originally Posted by s1akr

Wtf how da hell do I attack a pic from my iPad? Grrr

use an iamge host like flickr/imageshack/whatever to upload the use link to embed it once its on zhe interwebz...?

[s1akr]

think i have an account with flickr from awhile back, need to dig it out, thx!

[Mulholland]

Originally Posted by s1akr

think i have an account with flickr from awhile back, need to dig it out, thx!

If you have yahoo or gmail email account, then you have access to their corresponding image hosting sites (flickr and whatever the other is)

[s1akr]

blue.ninja.250r.2 by s|akr, on Flickr

The guy's list price is $3200. Gonna try to talk him down for sure, how much do you think is fair? it's an 08 model, low miles tho less than 1800 miles, and the above damage.

[s1akr]

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/mcy/2926891070.html

Not too bad of a ride home is it? I driven there before
So tempting...think I'll make it back home alive?

[Liist]

Originally Posted by s1akr

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/mcy/2926891070.html

Not too bad of a ride home is it? I driven there before
So tempting...think I'll make it back home alive?

That looks like a great deal especially if you are considering modding the exhaust and chopping the ugly ass fender off anyway.

I'm sure you'll make it home alive if you take the back roads and take it easy.

When I got my 250, I didn't even have any gear yet. I followed my dad in heavy traffic straight to Cycle Gear, where I bought my helmet. Good memories

However, I recommend buying some gear beforehand.

[adouglas]

1) No, no new model for awhile and even if there was one, so what? It'll be comparable, not some magic carpet. The newgen is a great bike. With the right mods, it's an AWESOME bike.

2) Take the MSF course again. You won't regret it. That's what I did… I didn't ride for about eight years, and while I remembered what I'd learned it was very useful to get a refresher before buying my current bike. Especially the riding part. Just doing the low-speed maneuvers was a hoot.

[massacremasses]

offer $2500. dont pay more than 2800. 3k is alright, but not really a deal.

Thats a decent amount of work to fix and will cost some money to just buy new stuff. Cause youd have to buy the front fairing as well as the cowling..

looks like youd want a new clutch lever too.

[Reswob]

Originally Posted by Mulholland

Yeah... bikes aren't "flying off showroom floors" I was literally quoting prices I was given on 09/10 models that were brand new sitting in showrooms, in april of 2011. Not special editions or anything either... just regular plain ass black 250r's... I was like "You're shitting me right, that bikes is over a year old" - "Yeah but it's new..." - "Yeah but even new MSRP is $4k, I'm not paying you more that $4700 out the door" - "Well good luck finding a dealer that will sell you one at that price, because that's $500 less than we will let one go for hahaha"


Seriously. I wanted to curb stomp some teeth out of the shiesty bastards.

But I still have no 250r... sadly for the dealer, they are the closest to me, and will never get business from me or anyone I know after that exchange, and by this time I would probably have been adding another 250r beside the one I was going to get then, or possible a 650. We all lose by them being assbags *shrug* I'm okay with someone making a fair buck off me, I understand... but I'm not getting ripped off on last years model because you aren't moving bikes and have to make every comission count, get your $1k+ off a guy buying a supersport...


also, to Akshay's comment above mine: The funniest part of the bullshit they pull, is if you want the 250r, which is supposed to be the cheapest entry level sportbike, they want to mark it up to almost $6k, but if you want a 650 or a supersport, they will offer you every discount possible and gouge the pricing and throw in all the bells and whistles, because they have wider profit margins and don't move them as often apparently. It's completely bassackwards. They should be selling 250r's like hotcakes, making up for their low markup/profit margin, and earning repeat and word of mouth business. Instead they drive away new riders/new business and screw themselves. It's really poor business.

You should seriously consider finding a dealership who isn't smoking crack, and will sell you the bike for MSRP, then pay the $500 or so to have it shipped to you. Sounds like you'd still save a lot of money over your local dealer.

[cliff0529]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

offer $2500. dont pay more than 2800. 3k is alright, but not really a deal.

Thats a decent amount of work to fix and will cost some money to just buy new stuff. Cause youd have to buy the front fairing as well as the cowling..

looks like youd want a new clutch lever too.

+1

Get it for $2800 or $2900 bucks and use the rest of the cash to get some good gear. Ride it for 5-6 months (you will probably drop it at some point, even if it's just a simple knock off in a parking lot) so what to fix the cosmetic damage.

Fix the cosmetic damage and ride it more and then sell it for what you got in it.

[Malicious Logic]

Originally Posted by burningscooter

Good luck shopping for a bike. My advice would be to not be afraid to start out on a bigger bike if you cant find a 250 at a good price or if those prices between a 600 and 250 start blurring. Bigger bikes, obviously have more power and weighs a bit more, but its very manageable, and power delivery at the low end is very similar to the 250, however, once you past 8k rpm is when you start to notice the power difference.

As for buying out of state, just make sure you check DMV laws, I believe CA has a law that states that in order to register a bike/automobile from out of state, it has to have XXXX amount of miles.

be safe, take your time.

Think that's maybe only the second time I've ever seen manageable be used to describe a super sport for a beginner....the other time being in a thread somewhere else urging people to start on a 600cc.

[s1akr]

Originally Posted by cliff0529

+1

Get it for $2800 or $2900 bucks and use the rest of the cash to get some good gear. Ride it for 5-6 months (you will probably drop it at some point, even if it's just a simple knock off in a parking lot) so what to fix the cosmetic damage.

Fix the cosmetic damage and ride it more and then sell it for what you got in it.

Dood! That's great idea! Was planning in fixing the cosmetic damage right away, but ur suggestion makes sense. Thanks! I need to look over some of the other listings I skipped due to cosmetic damages.

Thanks a bunch

[burningscooter]

Originally Posted by Malicious Logic

Think that's maybe only the second time I've ever seen manageable be used to describe a super sport for a beginner....the other time being in a thread somewhere else urging people to start on a 600cc.

Power delivery is very manageable on the low end. Aside from reading, have you ridden a 250 or a SS 600?

Recently stepping from a 250 to a SS 600, Id like to think I have a fairly general idea of what I am talking about. lolol

[Jiggles]

The problem is you know how to control the bike before stepping onto the 600. A nublet might rev the balls off of it and flip it rather easily

[Malicious Logic]

Originally Posted by burningscooter

Power delivery is very manageable on the low end. Aside from reading, have you ridden a 250 or a SS 600?

Recently stepping from a 250 to a SS 600, Id like to think I have a fairly general idea of what I am talking about. lolol

I haven't actually but I'd argue that I don't think you have a fairly general idea of what you're talking about. You started on a 250 so when you went to the 600, you already knew all the basics of riding and had a good bit of experience being on the road and what to do in certain situations. *shrugs* Maybe I'm completely off, who knows. Have I ridden before? No. Have I witnessed first hand the power a 600 has? Yes.

But hey, if you think a super sport is beginners, more power to ya. Maybe you should start a thread about it and enlighten everyone.

[burningscooter]

Originally Posted by Malicious Logic

I haven't actually but I'd argue that I don't think you have a fairly general idea of what you're talking about. You started on a 250 so when you went to the 600, you already knew all the basics of riding and had a good bit of experience being on the road and what to do in certain situations. *shrugs* Maybe I'm completely off, who knows. Have I ridden before? No. Have I witnessed first hand the power a 600 has? Yes.

But hey, if you think a super sport is beginners, more power to ya. Maybe you should start a thread about it and enlighten everyone.

Its okay, your entitled to your opinions, however, I do like the misdirect and saying that I should start a thread about it. LOL. I still feel fairly confident in saying that if the prices start blurring between a 250 and a 600, in this case a 650, that the OP shouldnt be afraid to start out on it. Sure, he may not have the basics down, but like everyone who starts out on any bike, youre going to spend some time in a confined lot or area before you venture out on to streets and then highway.

[Jiggles]

The 650 is a 2 cylinder, the 600 is a 4 cylinder, big difference

[DevinWolfe]

An '09 650 (haven't seen newer figures) has more than 3x the torque of the 250 and it's 0-60 time will beat an 8.3L V-10 Viper, and on par with a Z06 'vette, would you consider either of those to be a decent choice for a persons first car? Even if they start out learning basics in a parking lot? It isn't about learning basics or power delivery being manageable when all it takes is a momentary brain lapse to make yourself roadkill. The 250 is MUCH more forgiving than my first bike, a cruiser (VN750) with almost identical power figures to the 650.

Bottom line: the 250 is PLENTY of bike for a new rider regardless of price. Mistakes WILL be made, and the 250 will be more forgiving.