Electric Motorcycle

[Ralgha]

There is an emotional loss with the move away from internal combustion for sure, it affects everyone differently. It's not a big impact on me in the car and motorcycle realm since I work around turbine engines, and a reciprocating engine just doesn't provide the thrill of a turbine. As the turbines give way, I'll feel the loss much more acutely.

Electric bikes aren't zero maintenance, but they are much less maintenance. A gas engine motorcycle battery can kill you right now too. Just disconnect the batteries before working on it. It requires a different set of skills, not an impossible set.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by Ralgha

There is an emotional loss with the move away from internal combustion for sure, it affects everyone differently. It's not a big impact on me in the car and motorcycle realm since I work around turbine engines, and a reciprocating engine just doesn't provide the thrill of a turbine. As the turbines give way, I'll feel the loss much more acutely.

Electric bikes aren't zero maintenance, but they are much less maintenance. A gas engine motorcycle battery can kill you right now too. Just disconnect the batteries before working on it. It requires a different set of skills, not an impossible set.

"Let there be light!" Heck if I did that my garage door would open.

Bill

[redonninrf]

As an engineer I'm excited about electric bikes. If Harley-Davidson does ever bring their electric prototype to market I will be one of the first giving it a test ride. But I'm also a realist about electric vs gas in terms of both "ready-to-go" state and range. It's really just a matter of knowing what the limits if the machine are compared to your needs and wants. (Cue Clint Eastwood saying "A man's got to know his limitations.")

As others have mentioned, if we really want to make electric vehicles happen we need to do something like standardize replaceable batteries so they can be swapped out at electric "gas stations". Normally I'm somewhat of a laissez-faire capitalist but there are times when having the government require standardization is a benefit. Here in the U.S. witness standardized road signs so when you travel from state to state you're not confused over which is the speed limit. Or standardized wall socket configuration and voltage so you can always plug-in a reading lamp, vacuum cleaner, Cuisinart, television, etc.

At the same time it is important to recognize innovation. The latest electric vehicle technology in development is inductive recharging by driving over some recharger plates. Similar to a phone recharger which does not need to be plugged into the phone. The electric pace-car for the Formula-E race series uses inductive recharging but at a lower level of development. Currently the pace-car must be parked over a recharger plate and left there. Similar technology might work for bikes but there might be some safety issues if a rider put a foot down at the wrong time, or worse, fell down on the recharging pads. But the idea is enginnerd exciting. A while ago a company in Idaho was working on a solar-power generating road surface. Combine that with drive-over inductive recharging and you might really have something for the sunny parts of the world.

My one beef with electric vehicles is when the idealism becomes so strong the overall picture gets ignored. Electric vehicles are rarely pollution free. The electricity most likely came from either a fossil fuel plant producing CO2 and sulfur compounds, a nuke plant producing long term radioactive waste, a dam hurting the migration and spawning of salmon, or windmills killing birds and causing visual pollution.

Plus, once a certain fraction of the vehicle population becomes all-electric it will start to place a burden on the grids. My guess is it would not take a large fraction before we experience brown-outs without building more power plants.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by redonninrf

As an engineer I'm excited about electric bikes. If Harley-Davidson does ever bring their electric prototype to market I will be one of the first giving it a test ride. But I'm also a realist about electric vs gas in terms of both "ready-to-go" state and range. It's really just a matter of knowing what the limits if the machine are compared to your needs and wants. (Cue Clint Eastwood saying "A man's got to know his limitations.")

As others have mentioned, if we really want to make electric vehicles happen we need to do something like standardize replaceable batteries so they can be swapped out at electric "gas stations". Normally I'm somewhat of a laissez-faire capitalist but there are times when having the government require standardization is a benefit. Here in the U.S. witness standardized road signs so when you travel from state to state you're not confused over which is the speed limit. Or standardized wall socket configuration and voltage so you can always plug-in a reading lamp, vacuum cleaner, Cuisinart, television, etc.

At the same time it is important to recognize innovation. The latest electric vehicle technology in development is inductive recharging by driving over some recharger plates. Similar to a phone recharger which does not need to be plugged into the phone. The electric pace-car for the Formula-E race series uses inductive recharging but at a lower level of development. Currently the pace-car must be parked over a recharger plate and left there. Similar technology might work for bikes but there might be some safety issues if a rider put a foot down at the wrong time, or worse, fell down on the recharging pads. But the idea is enginnerd exciting. A while ago a company in Idaho was working on a solar-power generating road surface. Combine that with drive-over inductive recharging and you might really have something for the sunny parts of the world.

My one beef with electric vehicles is when the idealism becomes so strong the overall picture gets ignored. Electric vehicles are rarely pollution free. The electricity most likely came from either a fossil fuel plant producing CO2 and sulfur compounds, a nuke plant producing long term radioactive waste, a dam hurting the migration and spawning of salmon, or windmills killing birds and causing visual pollution.

Plus, once a certain fraction of the vehicle population becomes all-electric it will start to place a burden on the grids. My guess is it would not take a large fraction before we experience brown-outs without building more power plants.

It's also been said that if everyone living on one city block had electric vehicles, came home between 5 and 6:00 PM and plugged them in you would blow every transformer from their home to the power station.

Mr. Eastwood also said, "Well, are ya feelin' lucky punk?"

Bill

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by Ram Jet

It's also been said that if everyone living on one city block had electric vehicles, came home between 5 and 6:00 PM and plugged them in you would blow every transformer from their home to the power station.

Mr. Eastwood also said, "Well, are ya feelin' lucky punk?"

Bill

That's already happened with cable-based internet services!!!

One idea that really excites me about electric motorcycles is hybrid 2-wheel drive. Keep traditional RWD gas-engine and add an electric-motor to front-wheel! Traction is a major problem to improving performance since a bike's only got two tiny contact-patches compared to autos. Traction-control just lowers power-output to rear tyre to prevent wheelspin in corners and high-sides. Doesn't actually make bike faster.

However, if you use front-tyre for acceleration as well, you'll get more performance with enhanced safety. Better balance since both tyres will be experiencing similar forces. Overcoming traction-circle budget simultaneously with both tyres will be much, much more controllable than having one end letting go.

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by redonninrf

My one beef with electric vehicles is when the idealism becomes so strong the overall picture gets ignored. Electric vehicles are rarely pollution free. The electricity most likely came from either a fossil fuel plant producing CO2 and sulfur compounds, a nuke plant producing long term radioactive waste, a dam hurting the migration and spawning of salmon, or windmills killing birds and causing visual pollution.

You have to quantify that though. Large power-plants are much cleaner per kilowatt produced with less pollution than similar power-outputs from auto-engine or lawnmower. Autos are single largest group contributing to smog pollution. Look at acid-rain issues that smog caused in the '70s. Tighter emissions-regulations has completely cleaned-up many metropolitan areas where alerts used to be given to keep people indoors.

With ever tighter regulation of IC engines, we'll continue that trend.

[spent_too_much]

How it's made video of the Zero:

https://youtu.be/OBmn60rE03o

[MLR]

I vote for hydrogen.

It's a by product from alot of industrial process.

Same same problem as with electric though, supply vs demand.

What we really need is..........and its been around since the late 70's, government conspiracy me thinks.....

[VaFish]

Looks like London will be banning gas and diesel internal combustion engines by 2040.

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-...trol-vehicles-

Should make for some interesting new motorcycles.

[Chocula]

Originally Posted by Ram Jet

It's also been said that if everyone living on one city block had electric vehicles, came home between 5 and 6:00 PM and plugged them in you would blow every transformer from their home to the power station.

Mr. Eastwood also said, "Well, are ya feelin' lucky punk?"

Bill

Transformers don't actually blow from things like this, what can happen is brown outs or black outs to a small area.

If all of the hot water taps in my house were turned on at the same time while I was trying to take a shower, my shower would get cold.

Fortunately there are simple solutions to these problems. I could also increase supply by buying a larger hot water heater, thou that is a more costly solution than simply not running everything at once. This is implemented by a utility by time of use metering where electricity is cheaper during lower demand times. Businesses are commonly subjected to demand charging where they get a bill based on their peak draw in addition to the amount they use, encouraging them to spread out there power draw.

Households in some areas are able to sign up for discounted rates by agreeing to let the utility turn off their power for a few minutes or hours when demand in there area suddenly spikes. Some Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment (EVSE, which is commonly, and eroneously, referred to as a charger) have built in timers, others (such as the JuiceBox) can actually communicate with supporting utility companies allowing them to lower the charging rate or suspend charging during peak utilization.

My electric car has a built in timer where I can define various parameters about when I want it to charge or not and at what time it needs to be fully charged. One of my EVSE's has a timer built in to allow it to supply power only during certain times. The other EVSE that I use is lower power (120v @ 12 amps that came with the bike) and has a $10 timer plugged in between it an the wall (uses a standard household plug).

I use these because I am on a time of use plan that has the cheapest rates between 10pm and 8am. As long as they are fully charged when I need them, I don't care when or how fast they charge, so I restrict them to the lowest cost power and I did not bother to install a higher power EVSE as the lower power one gets me to full by morning.

Originally Posted by MLR

I vote for hydrogen.

It's a by product from alot of industrial process.

Same same problem as with electric though, supply vs demand.

What we really need is..........and its been around since the late 70's, government conspiracy me thinks.....

Hydrogen has some advantages as far as refueling rates go and it is nice to have options. Currently it suffers from an infrastructure problem much greater than battery electric vehicles do.

Personally I would prefer a battery in almost every situation. The conversion losses are greater when using hydrogen and it would make me dependent on a refueling station. Batteries keep improving and I suspect we are only a few years from a commercially available battery electric bike that can do 200 miles on the freeway then recharge in under 30 minutes. My butt doesn't go that far in the saddle without at least that much recharge time.