Interesting battery overview

[Ram Jet]

This is a pretty good article (with a-little advertising);

http://www.bikebandit.com/blog/post/...How_To_Tuesday

Bill

[DannoXYZ]

Cool article. Needs some more specific information that's different between lead-acid vs. lithium batteries.

CCA - is the raw amperage the battery can output. With lead-acid batteries, their output goes down immensely quick in cold-weather. A battery that outputs 200cca at room temperature may shrivel up to just 100cca @ 0-degreesF. This is why high CCA ratings always seem to be a desireable trait with lead-acid batteries. However, a lithium battery does not drop anywhere nearly as much, just -20% at most. So a 200cca lithium battery will still output 160cca @ 0-degrees, significantly outperforming a lead-acid battery in cold-weather.

This gives you overhead to downsize the battery for additional weight-savings. Actual amperage-draw from starter I've measured around 50-60 amps. In which case, I can use a smaller-than-stock battery. In fact, I'm using this Ballistic EVO2 battery.


https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41al6O2pkRL._SX355_.jpg

Charging - Resting-state of lead-acid batteries is about 12.8v after 6-12hrs off the charger. However, that does not mean the charger is sending 12.8v to the battery. Most chargers use 13.8-15v in order to generate the amperage needed to charge battery. This will charge a lithium battery just fine.

However, maximum life-span for lithium batteries is obtained with charging them only up to 80% full. Many phones, laptops and tablets will lie to you about their battery's charge. Iphones for example, will indicate 100% full when it's actually only 80%. Leaving the Iphone on charger longer after reaching "100%" will give you additional run-time as the battery will be taken up to 90% actual full-capacity.


Here's more detailed info on batteries: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...tery_knowledge

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by JacRyann

Cool article. Needs some more specific information that's different between lead-acid vs. lithium batteries.

CCA - is the raw amperage the battery can output. With lead-acid batteries, their output goes down immensely quick in cold-weather. A battery that outputs 200cca at room temperature may shrivel up to just 100cca @ 0-degreesF. This is why high CCA ratings always seem to be a desireable trait with lead-acid batteries. However, a lithium battery does not drop anywhere nearly as much, just -20% at most. So a 200cca lithium battery will still output 160cca @ 0-degrees, significantly outperforming a lead-acid battery in cold-weather.

This gives you overhead to downsize the battery for additional weight-savings. Actual amperage-draw from starter I've measured around 50-60 amps. In which case, I can use a smaller-than-stock battery. In fact, I'm using this Ballistic EVO2 battery.


https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41al6O2pkRL._SX355_.jpg

Charging - Resting-state of lead-acid batteries is about 12.8v after 6-12hrs off the charger. However, that does not mean the charger is sending 12.8v to the battery. Most chargers use 13.8-15v in order to generate the amperage needed to charge battery. This will charge a lithium battery just fine.

However, maximum life-span for lithium batteries is obtained with charging them only up to 80% full. Many phones, laptops and tablets will lie to you about their battery's charge. Iphones for example, will indicate 100% full when it's actually only 80%. Leaving the Iphone on charger longer after reaching "100%" will give you additional run-time as the battery will be taken up to 90% actual full-capacity.


Here's more detailed info on batteries: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...tery_knowledge

The Battery U. is good information.

I thought that the alternator in my van had crapped out. So, I got out my DVOM and at rest my car battery was a-bit over 12 volts. I started the car and the voltage across the battery terminals was over 17 V. Do you think that's why they don't want you jumping your bike battery off a running automobile?

Bill

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by Ram Jet

The Battery U. is good information.

I thought that the alternator in my van had crapped out. So, I got out my DVOM and at rest my car battery was a-bit over 12 volts. I started the car and the voltage across the battery terminals was over 17 V. Do you think that's why they don't want you jumping your bike battery off a running automobile?

Bill

Yikes!!! That's a bit high, shouldn't be more than 15v. That's a danger to the car's ECU as well. I wouldn't jump-start a bike OR a car with that output, just connect it to the dead battery, but leave the bike/car off. Use that to charge the dead-battery for 5-10 minutes and disconnect the jumper before trying to start the dead car/bike.

Or as you said, leave the jumping auto off and just use its battery to start the dead one.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by JacRyann

CCA - is the raw amperage the battery can output. With lead-acid batteries, their output goes down immensely quick in cold-weather. A battery that outputs 200cca at room temperature may shrivel up to just 100cca @ 0-degreesF. This is why high CCA ratings always seem to be a desireable trait with lead-acid batteries. However, a lithium battery does not drop anywhere nearly as much, just -20% at most. So a 200cca lithium battery will still output 160cca @ 0-degrees, significantly outperforming a lead-acid battery in cold-weather.

Just to be pedantic, CCA ratings are taken at 0°F. CA is the same test, but at 32°F. A battery will be able to pump out more amps at higher temps, but regardless of what it puts out at other temps, the CCA rating stays the same, since it's measured at a specific temperature. A 100CCA battery may be 150CA, and put out 200A at room temperature. It's all still a 100CCA battery because it tests at 100A at 0°F though.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by Ram Jet

I thought that the alternator in my van had crapped out. So, I got out my DVOM and at rest my car battery was a-bit over 12 volts. I started the car and the voltage across the battery terminals was over 17 V. Do you think that's why they don't want you jumping your bike battery off a running automobile?

Like Jac said, that's high for a car too. http://www.shadowriders.org/faq/jumpstarting.html explains why you don't want to jump a bike from a running car. Their charging systems are generally calibrated differently, which causes the car to keep trying to pump out more, and the bike's regulator to keep trying to get rid of that extra. Even a small car's alternator is more powerful than a bike's R/R, and will eventually cause it to burn out.

[DannoXYZ]

Also the method of measuring CCA is different between lead-acid batteries vs. lithium. On lead-acid, CCA is measured where voltage drops to 7.2v. It's kind of a worthless measurement because I doubt any auto or bike ECU is going to work at such a low-voltage anyway.

On lithium, the standard is 9.5v, which is more likely to operate the electronics. But gives a lower CCA number. Deceptive, since you can't directly compare CCA between the two. Lithium's CCA rating would be much higher if it was loaded down to 7.2v.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by JacRyann

Yikes!!! That's a bit high, shouldn't be more than 15v. That's a danger to the car's ECU as well. I wouldn't jump-start a bike OR a car with that output, just connect it to the dead battery, but leave the bike/car off. Use that to charge the dead-battery for 5-10 minutes and disconnect the jumper before trying to start the dead car/bike.

Or as you said, leave the jumping auto off and just use its battery to start the dead one.

Gosh, I started to think my DVOM was a piece of junk reading over 17V with the engine running. So, I pulled out my 33 year old Radio Shack analog VOM. That read over 16V. The old Radio Shack VOM isn't that accurate that's why I bought the DVOM. Whew, my new DVOM appears to be OK. Now, what the heck is going on with my car? I'll just wait until something blows-up. Who cares about a dumb ol' car anyway.

Bill

[DannoXYZ]

The reference-voltage monitoring line going to the alternator's regulator is probably faulty or disconnected. This is terminal "S" on the regulator and is typically a blue wire going to the battery or dash. The regulator uses the S line to increase or lower output voltage so it hits target at the reference point, typically 13.8v. Car seems to be working fine, but your batterys being overcharged and will boil off its electrolyte.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by JacRyann

The reference-voltage monitoring line going to the alternator's regulator is probably faulty or disconnected. This is terminal "S" on the regulator and is typically a blue wire going to the battery or dash. The regulator uses the S line to increase or lower output voltage so it hits target at the reference point, typically 13.8v. Car seems to be working fine, but your batterys being overcharged and will boil off its electrolyte.

Hmmm. The check battery light came on recently that's why I was testing the alternator. Best check the electrolyte if the battery isn't sealed.

Thanks,

Bill

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by Ram Jet

Hmmm. The check battery light came on recently that's why I was testing the alternator. Best check the electrolyte if the battery isn't sealed.

Thanks,

Bill

Charge-lamp coming on means alternator's not charging battery. No current flow means no voltage drop, hence the high voltage (still seems too high though). You may find car getting weaker and weaker, stumbling and dying as battery is drained fully.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by JacRyann

Charge-lamp coming on means alternator's not charging battery. No current flow means no voltage drop, hence the high voltage (still seems too high though). You may find car getting weaker and weaker, stumbling and dying as battery is drained fully.

Big help thanks. I'll keep an eye on it. If my van craps out who cares. It's nearly summer and I've got my lil' Ninja. Actually she's going to start earning her keep since I just spent the past 2.5 months and over $800.00 on her.

Cheers,

Bill