Euro 4 thoughts

[rgx107]

It is now 5 months left until only EU 4-compliant motorcycles can be registered (as new) in EU, but there is very little info from the manufacturers.

A few models have been said to be discontinued, like the W800 and CBR600. It has also been indicated that air cooled engines will struggle to pass the test, and be discontinued. And as far as I know only the Yamaha R1 is sold yet as Euro 4 - which I suspect is because the legislation is in effect already, but existing models can still be sold until December this year. (Makes you wonder about the Tracer 700, which is supposed to be Euro 3.)

But for the most part there is complete silence. The question is, does that mean that manufacturers are confident their products will pass Euro 4 easily? Or they don't know yet? Or they don't want consumers or competitors to know. We will get to know soon anyway I assume, so why wait?

From what I have been able to gather the allowed emissions of HC, CO and NOx are essentially halved. And the test now includes at least one cold start of the engine, which makes a big difference because the catalyser hasn't lit off then at the beginning of the test. From what I remember from the car industry when this kind of testing was introduced some 16 years ago, it forced changes to engines, catalysers and ECU. Variable valve timing became more or less mandatory, at first on the exhaust side then later on the intake.

If anyone has more details on next years models or the difficulties to pass the test, let us know.

[VaFish]

I think if anyone had that information that could post it here it would be in the news already.

[kdogg2077]

Sad to hear about the possible end of air cooled engines. Some of the Ducati models I really like are air cooled.

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by kdogg2077

Sad to hear about the possible end of air cooled engines. Some of the Ducati models I really like are air cooled.

I made the mistake of going to a Ducati demo day this weekend.

[kdogg2077]

Originally Posted by VaFish

I made the mistake of going to a Ducati demo day this weekend.

Why? Do you now lust for a Ducati you can't afford? I know this pain.

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by kdogg2077

Why? Do you now lust for a Ducati you can't afford? I know this pain.

Rode the Scrambler Icon first. Fun little bike, light and nimble like the Ninjette but with tons of power. Liked it, but can't see a naked bike as my only bike.

Next up was the XDIAVALE. Ducati's take on the cruiser. It was like one of those nutty girlfriends. Fun for a quick ride but I just couldn't see myself in a relationship with it. For pegs vibrated like crazy.

Last one I wanted to try was the Multistrada. Never have tried a big adventure bike before. Just fell in love with it. Comfortable, fast, tons of features in the electronics. Now to convince the wife we need one. (And she has very little interest in riding)

[rgx107]

An update, BMW has their 2017 models listed on the german site, and specified as EU-4. Without having checked all the models it seems performance figures are the same as before.

And the Yamaha MT-07 Tracer is sold as 2017 model and should be EU-4 according to the dealer. No updates on the webpage though.

For Kawasaki, silence. The dealer couldn't say anything.

Edit: the BMW S 1000 RR is specified as EU-3. As is the K 1600. Not sure what this means, if anything can be read into it.

[Triple Jim]

Originally Posted by kdogg2077

Sad to hear about the possible end of air cooled engines. Some of the Ducati models I really like are air cooled.

I understand that Moto Guzzi has passed with their air cooled twins. I can't quote any specifics off the top of my head, but I think part of what they had to do was redesign the combustion chambers.

[Ducati999]

I will try to find the article I read which stated that " they will allow current bikes to be manufactured and sold for a time" before the Euro 4 thing is in full effect. I will try to find/post the link because it explains it better that I can remember. I will go look.

[Ducati999]

Found the article here Honda https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...YmScIpAZLX-LhQ

It says ". After that date a limited number of bikes can be sold in the UK and Europe under ‘derogation’ rules." No time limit specified. The rest will be revealed as manufacturers catch up to the new laws.

[JohnnyBravo]

Yay less freedom

[kdogg2077]

Bikes make up such a small portion of people on the roads in developed countries. Is it really necessary to place so much burden on regulating them?

[kdogg2077]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

I understand that Moto Guzzi has passed with their air cooled twins. I can't quote any specifics off the top of my head, but I think part of what they had to do was redesign the combustion chambers.

Well if it's a small fix that's great. Moto Guzzi's tend to have weaker performance than Ducati's, so lower emissions might be easier for them.

[rgx107]

Originally Posted by kdogg2077

Bikes make up such a small portion of people on the roads in developed countries. Is it really necessary to place so much burden on regulating them?

You are right that in many countries it doesn't matter so much, which I think is the reason that emissions levels are generous for bikes. But in south of Europe bikes are more common and their emissions are a problem in cities like Paris, Rome and Madrid. Also keep in mind that emission levels from a modern petrol car are extremely low - once the catalyser is lit. We quickly approach a situation where one bike could offset the gain from Euro 5 to Euro 6 for hundreds of cars, if nothing was done about bikes' emissions.

Personally I think the levels of pollution you are allowed should be independent of the vehicle type. To some extent you could argue that bikes take less fuel and emit less greenhouse gasses, so could be allowed more of other emissions. (This argument was used to allow diesel cars higher emissions than petrol cars - in Europe. In US the levels are the same for both engine types.) You could also argue that bikes take up less space on the road and parked, so reducing the congestion and emissions from other vehicles (cars). And there is also a technical aspect, that if the emissions control systems would be too bulky or heavy to fit on the bike, an excempt could be necessary.

But we are not nowhere near yet. We might get there with Euro 5 (due in 2020). I see no reason as long as manufacturers continue to fit the absolute minimum and cheapest technology needed to pass the required levels. Current bikes have the technology level of cars from the late eighties (minus the knock sensor, and minus a proper cooling system which cars had already then). Also I see no reason as long as manufacturers continue to pretend that they provide state-of-art technology and the most environmentally friendly products possible, while lobbying against all new regulations, and delaying them. Then, once passed, use every possibility to sell the older (cheaper to produce) products another year.

A lot can still be done with little effort and cost, I think. It doesn't seem to have required extraordinary efforts from BMW and Yamaha to get their bikes to Euro 4 levels. Even the cheap G310 is listed as EU-4 compliant.

[rgx107]

A minor update
Honda NC 750 DCT is Euro 4, because it was launched in 2016 and regarded as a new model, separate from the other NC 750 models.

HD, you have most likely heard about their new engine. 4 valves, oh yeah. Not clear yet exactly what will happen with the rest of the program, but for sure the 750 was designed with new regulations in mind.

Victory. Changes similar to HD.