Bicycles!

[CaliGrrl]

Oh, wow, that's a sweet setup!

[choneofakind]

I ordered my Optic frame after Christmas. My present to me. I went big - it's the C7.1 frame set

Also checking out some wheels, I think I'm going Industry 9, they have some killer stuff and they're offering wheels with standard stainless spokes now so I don't have to pay for the super swank proprietary thick spokes, which simplifies and cheapifies things a lot for me.

Carbon bars, short stem, XT kit, Wheels Mfg bottom bracket, 40-series headset, and a 9point8 fall line dropper is going to finish the thing off... at least that's what I'm thinking for now. Let's do this bike thing right!

[Twinshock750]

Garages is a bit crowed currently...
#1 Bike: 2011 Colnago M10 running 11 speed Campag Chorus with Compact chain rings for climbing, custom built Wheel Works Rail 34mm Carbon rims, CX-Ray spokes and White industry hubs on 25mm Schwalbe Ones, speedpaly pedals. Is Black, white and little fluro orange and just rocks. I use it mostly for events up to double century length (when I really keen) and 1-2 century length rides a year.
#2 is Colnago CX-1 running 10 speed Campag Centuar carbon, compact also. Schirocco 35mm Campy wheels, speedplay pedals. Is my "training bike" but smoking fast also, unlike the rider at the moment.
#3: SCott X-50 flat bar bike with 700c wheels and discs. 14kg commuter beast! Running 28mm Conti's at 80psi.
#4 is 1951 or so Claude Butler custom build in 531 Reynolds. 10 speed (5x2). The front mech is a lever down on the seat tube!
#5 is my wife's Scott Foil on SRAM red and Mavic Kysrium SLRs and speedplays. probably the ligstest in the garage at about 7kg flat including pedals cages and light mounts.

Motorbikes and cars, well that is a whole another ball game, but Yamaha and TZ figure prominantly....

[choneofakind]

I dig the wheels on bike number 1. I have white industry hubs on my roadie as well. Cx ray spokes and pacenti sl23 rims. Best thing ever.

[Apex]

Finally! Had a day off since my little girl hung out at my sister-in-laws place. I hopped on the bike and was out for at least 2 hours. It was amazing being on t o wheels again. 76-degree weather, overall just amazing. I paced myself nicely considering how long it has been since I've done a ride.

It was tough. I could have done the ride or worked on a photography project I've been wanting to work on. The ride won. Hopefully I'll have a bit of time this weekend to start my photography series.

[dcj13]

35 deg F and spectacular sunshine today. Rode the KLR250 to our old house. Pumped up tires on Bianchi Project-1 hybrid bicycle, and rode it back to current house. First bicycle ride since 1999.

Went well!

[Apex]

I plan on riding just about everywhere once my girl goes into daycare. Roadie trips for longer trips, cargo bike for big hauls, trek 850 for the small stuff.

I am looking forward to getting back on two wheels again, even if not powered by petrol.

[antiant]

My new bike, a 2017 Specialized Roll Sport.

[alex.s]

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by alex.s

Daily commuter?

[Triple Jim]

Originally Posted by allanoue

Daily commuter?

Looks like a downhill bike... no pedals.

["A"]

Just ordered this, $385 shipped, including fork, seatpost, headset/bottom bracket.

[Triple Jim]

Tell us more about it please, A.

["A"]

Just an eBay purchase... not received yet, when I receive it I will have more to tell.

[Triple Jim]

I was wondering things like is it a carbon fiber frame made in China? What is it optimized for, road, track, touring, triathlons? What's the weight?

Edit: A pointed out the eBay link that I missed.

[choneofakind]

You're braver than I am, A. I'm not sure I could bring myself to do an ebay carbon frame unless it had a brand on it.

Hopefully it turns out okay for you. If it doesn't, i bet it sours your disposition towards carbon even further. Open mold ebay bikes seem to be hit or miss from what I've read. Some people have great experiences with them, others find bits of newspaper inside the tubes after an epic failure.

It looks like a clone of a Cervelo S5, so... Aero Road Race category.






I've been working on a little something something, but... I'll post here for you guys/gals when it's done.

["A"]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

You're braver than I am, A. I'm not sure I could bring myself to do an ebay carbon frame unless it had a brand on it.

$385 for frame/fork/headset/bottom bracket.. it's just disposable. I have cranksets that cost more.

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Hopefully it turns out okay for you. If it doesn't, i bet it sours your disposition towards carbon even further. Open mold ebay bikes seem to be hit or miss from what I've read. Some people have great experiences with them, others find bits of newspaper inside the tubes after an epic failure.

My expectations are low for this purchase, but kinda hard to lose since Cervelo source their frames from China anyway.



I'm for one non-believer of things written on the web when it comes to Chinese bicycle products, I test them out for myself.

Please list those people/sources of newspaper inside tubes after epic failure.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by "A"

I have cranksets that cost more.

Same here.

Originally Posted by "A"

Please list those people/sources of newspaper inside tubes after epic failure.

Here's the google search. Read for yourself. It's one of those legendary infamous things. TBH, probably no worse than name brand manufacturers were in their early days, or even now for that matter. But at least with a name brand, you have the hopes of a warranty and a tangible company that you know isn't going anywhere and can be located for interaction. Just my thoughts.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Chin...IDCgA&dpr=1.35

No need to get combative.



Hopefully it works out for you! Post pictures when she's done

["A"]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Here's the google search. Read for yourself. It's one of those legendary infamous things. TBH, probably no worse than name brand manufacturers were in their early days, or even now for that matter. But at least with a name brand, you have the hopes of a warranty and a tangible company that you know isn't going anywhere and can be located for interaction. Just my thoughts.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Chin...IDCgA&dpr=1.35

No need to get combative.

Asking for evidence to support your claim is not being combative.. that's just the most basic scientific method.
Google search results seem rather unspecific to your claim to find newspaper in broken carbon frame.
Below is a detailed blog about a Chinese carbon frame built into complete bike....

[Triple Jim]

Buying items directly from China can be risky, since if they are poorly made, you may not have much recourse. Buying Chinese items from a US dealer who buys a lot of them from a Chinese supplier can be less risky, since the US dealer should stand behind the items he sells, and if the manufacturer sends him poor quality products, it is more likely to try to make things right, in order to keep a good US dealer coming back for more. But even so, it could be worth the risk if the price difference is big enough.

I had this decision to make when I needed to find a source for custom made transformers for CDI units I manufacture. I could buy a thousand dollars worth of transformers from the manufacturer directly, or pay twice that to a US transformer company that then has them made by a Chinese manufacturer. Knowing I'm small potatoes to a manufacturer, I went with the US company, and a couple hundred transformers later, have not had a single failure.

I don't mean to pick on Chinese companies either. I'd be hesitant to spend big bucks on items from an overseas company I was not familiar with, no matter what country it was in.

I'm looking forward to hearing more about this bicycle frame.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by "A"

Asking for evidence to support your claim is not being combative.. that's just the most basic scientific method.
Google search results seem rather unspecific to your claim to find newspaper in broken carbon frame.
Below is a detailed blog about a Chinese carbon frame built into complete bike....

No, you're right; asking for evidence isn't combative. ...but your attitude towards me usually is. I get that you don't like me, but we can co-exist peacefully and discuss our shared hobby without being peckerheads. Deal?

I read through some forums a few years ago when my friend let me ride his Chinese-made Pinarello clone. I was really impressed because it had served him well during CAT3 racing and aside from being a little too harsh of a ride, was a really solid feeling bike! That's when I was reading about CCCF bikes (as your article calls them) and came across the infamous newspaper frame. I honestly don't remember where I read it. I think it was the BikeRadar forum but I'm not sure.

I go back and forth on whether I can bring myself to go the CCCF route, but I couldn't this time. I like warranty, I like factory backing, and I like support from my LBS. The frame that nearly got me to go CCCF was the ICAN P8, as it's nearly identical to the frame I ended up buying from Norco, both in geometry and appearance. ICAN also seems to be half decent in terms of durability for a CCCF bike.
http://www.icanbikes.com/html/MTB/27_5ER_frame/334.html

I may give it a go from a more reputable Chinese frame company on the next road bike. Or maybe on a commuter/adventure bike that can be a little less expensive?

["A"]

You can have your opinions about my purchase, but do not generalize Asian cycling products by rumors you encounter on the net without a personal experience with the product you have purchased and used yourself.
When you spread rumors as personal opinion with zero personal experience, without source; that's just lying.

China/Taiwan produce more cycling related product than any other country in the world... likely combined even. I cannot say anything about electronic components, but I know they are not cycling equipment.

After working in the cycling industry for nearly two decades, with retail and personal warranty experience with manufacturers around the world; I don't feel the US manufacturers are any better than any others at dealing with warranties.
I sold bikes that is suited to each customer, not because they have warranty, but because they are right for the customer.

I love cycling because I am willing to take chances with different equipment to find out what I like and dislike; I gain experience by using the equipment even those that are falsely generalized by rumors. Sure I take chances with my purchases, but that's for everything. Would you would ask for warranty when you have a child?

At $385 for frame/fork/seatpost/headset/bottom bracket; that's not a whole lot to risk for me.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by "A"

You can have your opinions about my purchase, but do not generalize Asian cycling products by rumors you encounter on the net without a personal experience with the product you have purchased and used yourself.
When you spread rumors as personal opinion with zero personal experience, without source; that's just lying.

Woahhhhh okay. Let's take a quick time out here.

I never judged your purchase. I'm excited by all things bike and enjoy a good discussion. I've really really thought long and hard about buying a chinese carbon frame. Honest. I just said you were braver than I was for finally buying one, that's all. I've been scared by stuff I've seen online and right, wrong, or indifferent, it influenced me into being scared of buying no-name chinese carbon clone frames. You and I differ because you're willing to take a risk, but I'm not. I wait for others to take the risk and let them sort out any issues. When I'm convinced, I follow. It's served me well and kept me from buyers remorse or undue annoyance after a purchase. The biggest thing that gets me with no-name Chinese carbon is the lack of knowledge that there has been any engineering or safety or testing or consideration of the consumer put into the development of the frame. All the consumer has is trust, and that's trust in a company they don't know. I hope I'm 100% wrong and there's tons of development that I'm unaware of, but I don't have industry hookups and I cannot see either way. Because I don't know, I avoid. That's all.

I wasn't telling you that you made a bad choice.

Let me say that again. I wasn't judging you. I'm excited for your bike and am really interested in seeing it when it's done and how it does over time with mileage/abuse. Like I said before, I've legitimately considered chinese frames for both of my last bike purchases and been scared away each time, so the experience of someone I'm able to be in contact with about one is really helpful to me.

one more time...

I'm not judging you or your business endeavors or your personal thoughts on the subject or your life experiences.

Further, I didn't bring Taiwan into this. I'm fully aware that Taiwan makes tons of cycling product, including the manufacturing of most brand name frames. That said though, they're the manufacturer, not the designer. Two very different things.

And you're right. $385 is super tempting. That's why I'm interested.





RE: child. Irrelevant straw man in the discussion.
[facetious]But yes, I'd love a warranty for that if it breaks[/facetious]

[dcj13]

The risk here is not the money. It's safety.

Bicycles (on the street) are more dangerous than motorcycles.

Hope the frame holds up well and look forward to progress reports.

[Triple Jim]

Funny you should say that, Dave... people I know, and some that I don't know, are always worried about my safety when they see me gearing up for a ride, or wearing gear, or hearing that I might ride a motorcycle. I often point out that I'm more vulnerable on my daily bicycle ride than on a motorcycle.

["A"]

Originally Posted by dcj13

The risk here is not the money. It's safety.

Bicycles (on the street) are more dangerous than motorcycles.

Hope the frame holds up well and look forward to progress reports.

Another generalization.
After pedaling and riding motorcycles for over two decades in many difference countries and continents; I feel safer on a bicycle than driving a car.

All depends on how fast you travel and how well you know to get out of the way of impact. Bicycles are far more ninimble and capable of maneuvers than motorcycles or cars.

Equipment safety concern is assessed when I receive the frame and put the bike together with my own hands and test ride the vehicle; which is a task that I have been paid to do for decades also.

For those who are concerned for my safety while riding, I often tell them that being safe doesn't guaranty my safety, taking the risk to stay out of the way of impact does.

I may be an outlier, riding is what I love, I commute nearly every weekday pedaling in Manhattan/Brooklyn since SEPT 2013, even in snow/ice still feel safer on a bicycle vs motorcycle or car.

I take risks on cycling equipment because I know my limits before I push them, that knowledge doesn't come without taking risks yourself to determine your own parameters.

[Apex]

In my area, I always felt safer on a motorcycle than bicycle. I have grown used to the bicycle though, so it doesn't bother me as much as it used to. Also, people around where I live now see more bikes, so they tend to give us a bit more space, which is nice.

[alex.s]

i think its fine to buy a ****** carbon frame. just don't buy a *light*, ****** carbon frame.

remember the saying, you can have 2 of 3 things: fast,cheap,good... it's sorta like that. you can have light, you can have good carbon quality for durability, and you can have cheap. only 2 of the 3. if you want cheap quality, its not gonna be 700g with a 300g fork. want strong and light? expensive. strong and cheap? steel bike.

["A"]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i think its fine to buy a ****** carbon frame. just don't buy a *light*, ****** carbon frame.

remember the saying, you can have 2 of 3 things: fast,cheap,good... it's sorta like that. you can have light, you can have good carbon quality for durability, and you can have cheap. only 2 of the 3. if you want cheap quality, its not gonna be 700g with a 300g fork. want strong and light? expensive. strong and cheap? steel bike.

Is that based on personal experience? or just another opinion?

How many light, ******* carbon frame have you put together or ridden?

China/Taiwan produce more cycling equipment than most other country, or even the rest of the world combined.
Most name-brand carbon frames are made in China/Taiwan.

[allanoue]

You think you found an exception to Alex's truism? Share from who or it did not happen.

Contrary to what some people believe, the word truism is not a more elegant word for truth. While the word truth can occasionally be used to refer to a “truism,” since truisms are often true, the reverse—the use of truism to mean “truth”—is unwise. Truism stands for a certain kind of truth—a cliché, a platitude, something so self-evident that it is hardly worth mentioning. One can use it to accuse another writer or speaker of saying something so obvious or evident and trite that pointing it out is pointless. To say that a statement is a truism when you intend to compliment it as truthful, factual, even provable, will merely serve to confuse those who know that calling something a truism is not praise, but a criticism or insult.
Note, however, that truism is used in a technical sense in mathematics or philosophy for restating something that is already known from its terms or premises. Examples of such truisms include: “Men are not women” and “Since the circumference of a circle equals twice the radius multiplied by π (2π r), it equals the diameter multiplied by π (π d).”

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/truism

["A"]

Originally Posted by allanoue

You think you found an exception to Alex's truism? Share from who or it did not happen.

I think asked simple questions that only require simple answers from Alex.
I did not ask for definition on "truism".
I'm not sure what you are expecting to "happen"... care to specify?

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by "A"

I think asked simple questions that only require simple answers from Alex.

You are simple

Originally Posted by "A"

I did not ask for definition on "truism".

Based on your reply to Alex looked like you need help, it was clear you did not recognize the truism for what it was.

Originally Posted by "A"

I'm not sure what you are expecting to "happen"... care to specify?

Specifically, who made your frame? China is not specific, I would call that vague.

["A"]

Originally Posted by allanoue

You are simple

I like to keep it that way, less guess work.

Originally Posted by allanoue

Based on your reply to Alex looked like you need help, it was clear you did not recognize the truism for what it was.

True or false, Alex has yet to answer my question.

Originally Posted by allanoue

Specifically, who made your frame? China is not specific, I would call that vague.

I supplied a direct link where I made my purchase in my previous post, not direct/simple enough for you?

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by "A"

Is that based on personal experience? or just another opinion?

How many light, ******* carbon frame have you put together or ridden?

3

Originally Posted by "A"

China/Taiwan produce more cycling equipment than most other country, or even the rest of the world combined.
Most name-brand carbon frames are made in China/Taiwan.

I believe the company you're looking for is Giant. Their factories are largest in Taiwan but also have plants in China and the Netherlands. They produce most carbon frames for other manufacturers. except for the prissy bitches like specialized, or felt or pinarello

Giant's prowess doesn't mean all taiwanese or chinese bikes are good. that's ****ing racist bro.

[alex.s]

the geo isnt going to make that much of a difference, except maybe softening it up with more elaborate stuff like the stupid pinarelo kris style fork.
the type of carbon they use is much more important. and how its layed. if you want a light bike, you need something like toray fibers. layed correctly.
cheap chinese bikes aren't going to be made out of toray. and the lay pattern for different strength CF is going to be different. a cheap chinese bike is going to be cheap cf with lower strength. simply because the cost of those fibers is fixed. you can't buy toray cheaper in china than you can else where.

so $300 frame? at 700g? it's going to flex all to hell or break a chain stay or down tube or something. $300 carbon frame at 1000g? sure. absolutely. go wild.

["A"]

Originally Posted by alex.s

3

3 what? you've built 3 carbon frame bicycles and ridden all of them?
What are the results?

Originally Posted by alex.s

I believe the company you're looking for is Giant. Their factories are largest in Taiwan but also have plants in China and the Netherlands. They produce most carbon frames for other manufacturers. except for the prissy bitches like specialized, or felt or pinarello

Giant's prowess doesn't mean all taiwanese or chinese bikes are good. that's ****ing racist bro.

No, I did not specify a single bicycle company.

I was making a statement that most bicycle equipment in the world are made in China/Taiwan; not limited to high-end bicycle equipment.
And name-brand company like Specialized, Felt, Pinarello and many other brand use Chinese/Taiwanese manufactured products as their own. May not be frames, but other cycling equipment.

I never said all Chinese/Taiwanese bikes are good, I only stated that most cycling equipment are made there. Read more carefully.
I speak fluent Chinese because I respect the people that I conduct business with instead of generalizing their product by internet rumors.

Originally Posted by alex.s

the geo isnt going to make that much of a difference, except maybe softening it up with more elaborate stuff like the stupid pinarelo kris style fork.
the type of carbon they use is much more important. and how its layed. if you want a light bike, you need something like toray fibers. layed correctly.
cheap chinese bikes aren't going to be made out of toray. and the lay pattern for different strength CF is going to be different. a cheap chinese bike is going to be cheap cf with lower strength. simply because the cost of those fibers is fixed. you can't buy toray cheaper in china than you can else where.

Do you have a source of your toray fiber purchase pricing?

Do you know how much a typical Chinese/Taiwanese carbon frame manufacturer purchase annually in toray fiber?

Have you done testing of any Chinese/Taiwanese carbon frame side-by-side vs any other carbon frames?

Originally Posted by alex.s

so $300 frame? at 700g? it's going to flex all to hell or break a chain stay or down tube or something. $300 carbon frame at 1000g? sure. absolutely. go wild.

Is that from personal experience of building your own carbon frame at 700g?
or just speculation?

You make all these claims in your post without providing sources or evidence of your personal experience with results.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by "A"

3 what? you've built 3 carbon frame bicycles and ridden all of them?

no, i meant 3 different makes of generic cheap chinese frames. but i've talked to coworkers and racers about different brands of chinese frames and they all seem to echo the same views.

Originally Posted by "A"

I was making a statement that most bicycle equipment in the world are made in China/Taiwan; not limited to high-end bicycle equipment.
And name-brand company like Specialized, Felt, Pinarello and many other brand use Chinese/Taiwanese manufactured products as their own. May not be frames, but other cycling equipment.

i was talking about frames.

Originally Posted by "A"

Do you know how much a typical Chinese/Taiwanese carbon frame manufacturer purchase annually in toray fiber?

not very much if they don't sell frames made in toray.

Originally Posted by "A"

Have you done testing of any Chinese/Taiwanese carbon frame side-by-side vs any other carbon frames?

yes.

Originally Posted by "A"

You make all these claims in your post without providing sources or evidence of your personal experience with results.

where do you cite your sources? i don't see you posting evidence... why don't you show us the torques per mm displacement graph you've done since you're such an expert. how about the fea report. since you're such an expert and are on such a good raport with chinese manufacturers.

["A"]

Originally Posted by alex.s

no, i meant 3 different makes of generic cheap chinese frames. but i've talked to coworkers and racers about different brands of chinese frames and they all seem to echo the same views.

So where did you purchase the frames that you built into complete bikes??
Where did your co-workers purchase??
What are the specific results??

Originally Posted by alex.s

i was talking about frames.

Frames are bicycle equipment, do you not consider frames as bicycle equipment?

Originally Posted by alex.s

not very much if they don't sell frames made in toray.

As if you'd know any Chinese manufacturers and the specific materials they use? show your sources.

Originally Posted by alex.s

yes.

Yes, you've done testing and what are the results??

Originally Posted by alex.s

where do you cite your sources? i don't see you posting evidence... why don't you show us the torques per mm displacement graph you've done since you're such an expert. how about the fea report. since you're such an expert and are on such a good raport with chinese manufacturers.

I didn't make any specific claims about building Chinese carbon frames, you did; yet you fail to present any evidence of your claims about Chinese carbon frames being inferior vs any other specific brand-name product. You have yet to present any sources of your Chinese carbon frame, no comparison you've made; zero evidence=zero credibility..

BTW, easy search on ebay can produce Chinese sellers that offer TORAY carbon as frame material.

[alex.s]

per your link:
Frame weight:1000±40g
Fork weight:395±15g

["A"]

Originally Posted by alex.s

per your link:
Frame weight:1000±40g
Fork weight:395±15g

What about those figures above?

Below is what you claimed in your previous post:

Originally Posted by alex.s

so $300 frame? at 700g? it's going to flex all to hell or break a chain stay or down tube or something. $300 carbon frame at 1000g? sure. absolutely. go wild.

What did you base your claims for your statement for 700g vs 1000g carbon frames?

What are the manufacturers of each frame?

What are the specific parameters of your testing?

Still zero evidence, zero credibility.