What Rear Shock/Spring will work - EX300?

All,

I'm 110lbs and the stock rear shock isn't doing well for me on its lowest setting. Very stiff. I know some of you have had success replacing the shock and spring - and I've tried to get in on those conversations, but was not able to find all of the information I need...

I'm still not sure what rear shocks will work well (sounds like anything made for the newer ex250 will fit - correct?). I am also not sure what rear spring to get for my weight, since I can't find a calculator for the 300, and the spring does not seem to be the same as for the 250 (is it?)

Any help with specific spring rates, parts and brands would be very helpful. I'd like to get this stuff ordered this week...

Thanks.

[alex.s]

why do you feel its too stiff? just a harsh ride?? have you considered a softer seat?

It's not the seat. I have to stand on the footpegs at high speed to avoid the shaking. This has never happened with any other bike I have had, plus I have found a lot of other people with the same issue.

Also, my calculated spring rate for that bike weight is .68 kg/mm and the stock is something like a .90kg/mm - though I'm not sure where I found that info...

Originally Posted by alex.s

why do you feel its too stiff? just a harsh ride?? have you considered a softer seat?

[alex.s]

shaking? what shaking are you talking about?

i would start by measuring the dynamic sag on the rear shock. google "measure rear shock sag" and it should give you good ideas. you probably want about 30mm of "rider sag"

the stock shock is definitely not 0.9kg/mm

So, based on my internet research I know I need to get a .70 mm/kg spring and adjustable rear shock, but I'd like to know if anyone has had experience with any brand and what has worked well...

Originally Posted by accident-prone

It's not the seat. I have to stand on the footpegs at high speed to avoid the shaking. This has never happened with any other bike I have had, plus I have found a lot of other people with the same issue.

Also, my calculated spring rate for that bike weight is .68 kg/mm and the stock is something like a .90kg/mm - though I'm not sure where I found that info...

I can't find what the stock spring rate is, I don't know what website gave me the info before. Do you know where I'd find that info? I have already measured the sag and it's fine. Give me some credit. I've come to the conclusion that I need to change out the rear shock based on 10 years of riding experience, and the advice of a mechanic I trust who will give me a much better deal if I do all the research...

I wear glasses. Bike shakes so much that I can't see if I'm at past 85mph.

Originally Posted by alex.s

shaking? what shaking are you talking about?

i would start by measuring the dynamic sag on the rear shock. google "measure rear shock sag" and it should give you good ideas. you probably want about 30mm of "rider sag"

the stock shock is definitely not 0.9kg/mm

[Tigerpaw]

Originally Posted by accident-prone

, plus I have found a lot of other people with the same issue.

As in a lot of 300s with lightweight riders?

I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that a properly functioning bike is giving you these problems. I would take it in to get looked at.

Yup. As in lightweight riders with too stiff a spring on the rear suspension. Shockingly, motorcycles are not designed for women.

For anyone else who IS having this problem, I have made some calls and found out the following:

For $903 plus the cost of outsourced adapter rings, Ohlins can provide an adjustable rear shock with a .70 spring (made for 250 but wil fit 300)

For $925, Penske shocks will custom make one with the correct spring based on your weight. (based on the 250)

For I found one that *might* fit from Progressive suspension for $349, but have not heard back from them about the adjustability of this suspension model.

I have not ordered anything yet, so anyone who has tried one of these brands or others on this bike, please let me know how it's working out...

Originally Posted by Tigerpaw

As in a lot of 300s with lightweight riders?

I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that a properly functioning bike is giving you these problems. I would take it in to get looked at.

[choneofakind]

Michelle, I find this odd. In my experience, the only people that the 250 is set up properly for is lightweight riders like us.

Even on the highest preload setting, my pregen (with a shock from an 08-12 250R) has never been so jarring that I can't see right. I also wear glasses, and I am 135 lbs. I was under the impression that the 300 shock had different damping/valving than the 250R shock, but was otherwise the same. I'm hoping someone who knows more than myself pipes in here though.

Just curious, where are you getting your info that 0.7 kg/mm is the right value?

I'll do some hunting and see if anything pops up.

I have had 3 250s. All fine. when they redesigned the 300, they changed the shock. Also, 110lbs is substantially different on a bike than 135lbs.

see this thread: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=122159

As for the spring rate, several different website calculators have given me the rate of .68 based on my weight and the weight of the bike. .70 is the smallest one they manufacture.

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Michelle, I find this odd. In my experience, the only people that the 250 is set up properly for is lightweight riders like us.

Even on the highest preload setting, my pregen (with a shock from an 08-12 250R) has never been so jarring that I can't see right. I also wear glasses, and I am 135 lbs. I was under the impression that the 300 shock had different damping/valving than the 250R shock, but was otherwise the same. I'm hoping someone who knows more than myself pipes in here though.

Just curious, where are you getting your info that 0.7 kg/mm is the right value?

I'll do some hunting and see if anything pops up.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by accident-prone

see this thread: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=122159

Yes, I've read that. I've even posted in that.

All I'm getting from that thread is that Kawasaki changed the damping of the shock by changing the valving. This doesn't make the shock harder to compress, it makes the shock compress at a slower rate. So your issue seems to be with the damping, not the spring rate. That explains why you are able to get proper static sag numbers, yet it rides like a dump truck.

I would go double check those spring numbers for the OEM shocks before assuming you need a different spring. Since you know that 250 shocks work for you without issue, you might be able to just get an aftermarket shock (with adjustable damping) for the 250 and use the supplied spring.

[alex.s]

10 years of experience doesn't mean anything in my opinion. no offense, really.

you say you checked sag, and that its... correct! but that you ... still want to respring?...

so when i ask what kind of shaking you are talking about, you don't give any detail even though you come here asking advice. we race these bikes, some even on stock suspension. there is more that goes into the handling of a bike than an... already correctly sprung rear shock. so... let me try this again





what kind of shaking are you talking about?

If I buy the shock new, they supply the correct spring free, so there's no reason not to...and of course I'd have them calculated by the company. At this point, just trying to find someone who had had some experience with specific shocks and can recommend one.

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Yes, I've read that. I've even posted in that.

All I'm getting from that thread is that Kawasaki changed the damping of the shock by changing the valving. This doesn't make the shock harder to compress, it makes the shock compress at a slower rate. So your issue seems to be with the damping, not the spring rate. That explains why you are able to get proper static sag numbers, yet it rides like a dump truck.

I would go double check those spring numbers before assuming you need a different spring. Since you know that 250 shocks work for you without issue, you might be able to just get an aftermarket shock (with adjustable damping) for the 250 and use the supplied spring.

I didn't give you more detail because it's already been determined by a mechanic whom I trust that I need to change out the shock and spring. Just trying to find out which one is best or good enough and go from there. None of your condescension has been helpful.

I think saying that it shakes at high speeds so much that my glasses vibrate, I can't see, and I have to stand on the footpegs to correct this is pretty specific, even superfluous information already though. I can add that it sucks compared to my 1999 fzr600, which does not have any kind of custom suspension and was not envisioned for a 110lb rider.

Originally Posted by alex.s

10 years of experience doesn't mean anything in my opinion. no offense, really.

you say you checked sag, and that its... correct! but that you ... still want to respring?...

so when i ask what kind of shaking you are talking about, you don't give any detail even though you come here asking advice. we race these bikes, some even on stock suspension. there is more that goes into the handling of a bike than an... already correctly sprung rear shock. so... let me try this again





what kind of shaking are you talking about?

[Alex]

Originally Posted by accident-prone

I think saying that it shakes at high speeds so much that my glasses vibrate, I can't see, and I have to stand on the footpegs to correct this is pretty specific, even superfluous information already though

It's just that this symptom doesn't sound like it is due to a properly functioning shock that's just a little stiff. It really sounds like something else is going on with your bike to cause it to vibrate as bad as you are describing, that changing out the rear shock will not necessarily fix.

All of the help in this thread is meant as just that, help, and you're of course free to take what you feel is useful and ignore the rest. But from this side of the screen, it sounds like I'd at least get an opinion from another mechanic, and/or ride someone else's 300 to either confirm that they all work that way for you, or if it's something that isn't working correctly on your particular bike. I'd do that before throwing any money at a new rear shock to try and fix the problem.

Ping @Yakaru, who just bought a new 300 after having a 250 for awhile; rumor is she weighs 105 lbs soaking wet.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by accident-prone

None of your condescension has been helpful.

OK! cool. i'm glad you can recognize attitude when you see it. maybe reread your posts now.

i'm glad you know a mechanic. i know lots of mechanics too!

i agree, the fzr 600 is pretty crappy on the rear shock department. my 94 has a slightly worse shock than your 99, but still. craptastic! don't you love how easy it is to bottom everything out in a turn?

so anyway back to talking about vibration. do you know what a hard tail bike is? its a bike with no rear suspension. maybe you've had a chance to ride one in your 10 years of experience?

i love some of the features they added to the 300, like the rubber mount forward engine mounts. they really cut down on the engine vibration. you can still feel chain clunks very easily which is nice but the engine vibration is kept down pretty far.

the wheels are nice looking too, don't you agree? i love the new design and they even cut some weight on it if i remember right? they are pretty easy to balance i think.

Thanks Alex for the ideas. I've gotten both the dealer and an independent mechanic (Tyler) to take a look at it - although I don't know anyone else who owns one. The dealer, however, has said that he's heard some similar complaints from the few women he knows who have purchased one AND gotten it through the break-in period. Please let me know if you've had any experience with any of the shocks listed.

Also, I'd love to hear from any small women who own an EX300 and have ridden it through the break in period about handling, suspension, shaking, etc. Or, really anyone who has ridden the bike - as I think it rides stiffer in general - regardless of weight. And yeah, I'll ask Yakaru, though it sounds like she may not be through break in yet. It does sort of ok at low speeds/rpms.

Originally Posted by Alex

It's just that this symptom doesn't sound like it is due to a properly functioning shock that's just a little stiff. It really sounds like something else is going on with your bike to cause it to vibrate as bad as you are describing, that changing out the rear shock will not necessarily fix.

All of the help in this thread is meant as just that, help, and you're of course free to take what you feel is useful and ignore the rest. But from this side of the screen, it sounds like I'd at least get an opinion from another mechanic, and/or ride someone else's 300 to either confirm that they all work that way for you, or if it's something that isn't working correctly on your particular bike. I'd do that before throwing any money at a new rear shock to try and fix the problem.

Ping @Yakaru, who just bought a new 300 after having a 250 for awhile; rumor is she weighs 105 lbs soaking wet.

[Alex]

The break-in period isn't going to change anything at all with suspension behavior, and it doesn't change the vibration characteristics of the bike either. The more I hear, the more it sounds like you're getting some bad info from the people you've been working with for help so far.

Which bay area dealership are you working with? Heck - you're 30 minutes from our place, come on by any weekend and I'd be happy to let you know if your 300 feels any different from ours.

[Yakaru]

Hey there, I haven't had time to read this thread yet but I will say that I have gone ... uh... fast enough several times and never had vibration issues, and I'm under 100 lbs. I mean, the 300 is buzzy since it runs in the high RPMs and is light weight, but it's a very fast/small amount of vibration and nothing that would make me worry. I'll read through it when I get a few and see if I can give any more thoughts

Originally Posted by Alex

The break-in period isn't going to change anything at all with suspension behavior, and it doesn't change the vibration characteristics of the bike either. The more I hear, the more it sounds like you're getting some bad info from the people you've been working with for help so far.

Which bay area dealership are you working with? Heck - you're 30 minutes from our place, come on by any weekend and I'd be happy to let you know if your 300 feels any different from ours.

The break in period matters because the issue only becomes a problem at high speeds/rpms.

Are you a dealership or do you have a 300?

[Alex]

Are you for real?

Originally Posted by Yakaru

Hey there, I haven't had time to read this thread yet but I will say that I have gone ... uh... fast enough several times and never had vibration issues, and I'm under 100 lbs. I mean, the 300 is buzzy since it runs in the high RPMs and is light weight, but it's a very fast/small amount of vibration and nothing that would make me worry. I'll read through it when I get a few and see if I can give any more thoughts

Yakaru, just to confirm, you've brought it over 11,000 rpms/90mph with minimal/mild shaking? If so, that is VERY helpful input...

[Yakaru]

Originally Posted by accident-prone

Yakaru, just to confirm, you've brought it over 11,000 rpms/90mph with minimal/mild shaking? If so, that is VERY helpful input...

Correct. Buzzy, but no shaking.

Originally Posted by Alex

Are you for real?

Just on a phone and only saw your last bike listed on the small screen. Not intentional. Just going off the reply itself.

Originally Posted by Yakaru

Correct. Buzzy, but no shaking.

Huh. Thanks. Not looking forward to trying to prove to the dealership that there may be something wrong with mine at illegally high speeds.

[alex.s]

so... maybe i'll try this again.


care to elaborate on the shaking you are describing? what is shaking? the entire bike is vibrating? there is a steady thumping? is it speed or rpm dependant? both?

[Tigerpaw]

Has a Kawasaki dealership looked at your bike for this problem?

It would be nice to rule out easy fixes that are covered under warranty.



I think we all agree there are some awesome suspension set-ups you can put on a 300...but it just may not be necessary.

[Alex]

Good questions - it sure does sound like something out of round. An unbalanced tire, a wheel mounted without a spacer, a chain that is either very tight or very loose, a missing engine mounting bolt, etc. Highspeed vibration to knock your glasses around at speed isn't a characteristic of this bike, whether the rider is 80 pounds or 180 pounds.

[old3]

I think you are looking in the wrong place. Try tapered roller steering head bearings.

$45 and they cure the steering problems inherent on these EX250 based bikes. By 1000 miles my 300 bearings were shot. The whole bike got loose. I did a thread here somewhere on it.

If you are hell bent on a shock, I recommend searching for my thread about fitting a GSXR 600/750 rear shock, get the correct spring and have it valved for your weight.

You mentioned you measured sag, and it is correct. This would mean that the spring is fine for you. Like I said, I think you are going in the wrong direction searching for a solution.

I also dropped in fork emulators by Race Tech, but I'm 200 lbs. Still, with adjustments for you they will help the front end tremendously. I don't think that is your problem either.

Originally Posted by Alex

Good questions - it sure does sound like something out of round. An unbalanced tire, a wheel mounted without a spacer, a chain that is either very tight or very loose, a missing engine mounting bolt, etc. Highspeed vibration to knock your glasses around at speed isn't a characteristic of this bike, whether the rider is 80 pounds or 180 pounds.

I'm going in tomorrow to have some cosmetic stuff replaced (kill switch and fluid cover scuffed when I got it). I will ask them to check all that out as well.

[old3]

Shock that you don't need.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=119304

[Alex]

RE: vibration; here are some quotes from the various reviews of the 300 found online:

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/...-300-part-two/

That’s because this motor may represent the most improvement in a consumer product since the horse and carriage lost the horse. The new motor not only makes a lot more power (about a 20 percent bump), it’s also way smoother (thanks to the rubber mounting and improved counterbalancer, I assume) and much more flexible and easy to use. Gone is the revving to 7000 rpm to get rolling or the endless shifting to keep the little zinger on the boil. Gone is the wheezing at high speeds when you try to make a pass in sixth gear. Say “so long” to lugging the motor or bouncing around on the suspension as you downshift mid-corner so you don’t fall too far behind your buddies.

The motor is good enough that the 300 can be ridden like a regular motorcycle. Riding with fast traffic on divided freeways is no longer a frantic, nerve-wracking affair. With a GPS-verified speed of at least 103 mph (stupid headwind!) and enough grunt to pass cars at 80-plus mph in top gear, you’re king of the road, if you’re an aggressive sort. If you’re not, you can cruise along in sixth gear at the speed limit and see a mere 7000 rpm on the tach. It’s almost relaxing if you’re accustomed to the omnipresent weedwhacker exhaust note of the 250R.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/157/14...irst-Ride.aspx

While we praise the Ninja 300’s new found power, EFI and slipper clutch, one our favorite characteristics of the bike is its reduction of vibration. New rubber front engine mounts result in a dramatic improvement of the 250’s buzzy nature. It may be unheralded compared to the other changes, but eliminates our biggest complaint in the previous bike. It also gives the 300 a solid, more stable feel.

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufactur...iew-91429.html

Riding old and new back-to-back also reveals another trait: the new bike is noticeably smoother than its predecessor thanks to rubber engine mounts keeping vibes at bay. The 250 used solid mounts, resulting in numb hands at higher rpm as the engine buzzed away.

This is what your bike should feel like.

[old3]

Bearings

Just do them.


http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=119551

[Alex]

Originally Posted by accident-prone

I'm going in tomorrow to have some cosmetic stuff replaced

Which dealer? East Bay Motorsports?

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by old3

Bearings

Just do them.


http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=119551

stem bearings have about as much relation to the OPs problems as the rear shock.

[Tigerpaw]

Originally Posted by accident-prone

I'm going in tomorrow to have some cosmetic stuff replaced (kill switch and fluid cover scuffed when I got it). I will ask them to check all that out as well.

So the bike has been down. The problem is NOT a properly functioning stock shock. Have the entire bike looked over by a Kawasaki dealer.
Find the real problem, before you start throwing money around.

[Alex]

Jim - I'm finding it hard to understand why steering-head bearings in a bike gently ridden and not out of break-in would cause the vibration as described. No argument that the bearings might be a good idea to upgrade at some point, but it's unlikely that's the root cause (or even a related cause) of what's going on with this bike.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Tigerpaw

So the bike has been down.

not so fast. bikes can get slight cosmetic damage sitting in a show room getting moved around. doesn't mean it was down. but certainly not a good sign.

Originally Posted by Tigerpaw

So the bike has been down. The problem is NOT a properly functioning stock shock. Have the entire bike looked over by a Kawasaki dealer.
Find the real problem, before you start throwing money around.

It has not been down. Top of the bike was scratched in transit to the dealer. Tiny little scratches on the TOP from something being stacked on top. Thus, they are replacing the scratched parts. Sigh. I feel like every explanation I give just leads to more misunderstanding about what I have said on here. I know you guys are trying to help, but please don't assume things I haven't said. It's very frustrating!

[Tigerpaw]

The bike was new? 0 miles?